our goverment

who controls the goverment?
we elect them and put them in power to serve the needs of the country
yet insted of serving the needs of the people
they screw us over

Tax rises in almost sectors from Income,council and so forth
yet nothing good comes out of it.

question why do we as the people who put them in power let this happen?

Originally posted by bodrul
who controls the goverment?

- The electorate and the law.

we elect them and put them in power to serve the needs of the country
yet insted of serving the needs of the people
they screw us over

- Well ok, your opinion and all but personally given the vast array of competing priorities etc I think this lot do pretty well for most of us.

Tax rises in almost sectors from Income,council and so forth
yet nothing good comes out of it.

- Actually direct taxes have gone down under this Gov (as today shows) and our public services are improving (hospital and schools investment is so obvious with new build in several locations near to me).

question why do we as the people who put them in power let this happen?

- Pass your verdict at the next general election, join a political party, vote on it's program and priorities or join civic bodies advising the Gov etc etc.

We can all just sit & complain Bodrul but how involved are you, how much are you trying to ensure 'they' know the current & real needs and desires of 'the people'?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
and our public services are improving (hospital and schools investment is so obvious with new build in several locations near to me).

I have to disagree with you here, at least in my area public services have not improved and in some cases gone down hill, especially when it comes to policing the area and education.

Originally posted by bodrul
who controls the goverment?

I just wonder if the word "control" is the right one. Would the word "influence" be better as I can not see how you can control a body such as a Government as a entity. I see Government being influenced and we the people are well down the list.

we elect them and put them in power to serve the needs of the country yet insted of serving the needs of the people they screw us over

I do not see this lot as much better than what I have seen in 40 odd years. I heard the Gordon Brown say on BBC Radio 4 that he was in politics to make a difference. Not very creditable as who gives up a normal life to just serve?? Was Gorden Brown seriously trying to convinve me that he has not gained more being a senior member of our Government and a player on the world stage?

Why not just be honest. If I was in politics, I would be in for me first and if as a result of that, I made a difference then great. I would tell people this up front.

Tax rises in almost sectors from Income,council and so forth
yet nothing good comes out of it.

I see less money in real terms under this Government, and reduced services. No access to NHS dentist, fewer police on the streets and my country awash with people who should not be here and a failing prison system. We are being ripped off by this Government, but would any other Government be any better?? I wonder?

Poll tax continues to go up and services are reducing.

question why do we as the people who put them in power let this happen?

If I had a quick and simple answer to this, I may well be running the country. (what luckly people you would be)

We need someone to run the country and make decisions, and these are the best of a poor bunch. I have always believed anyone who wants to be PM, is clearing not suitable. The PM should come from a consenus

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
I heard the Gordon Brown say on BBC Radio 4 that he was in politics to make a difference. Not very creditable as who gives up a normal life to just serve??

- Actually Freedom ERP just because you think along those lines doesn't mean everybody does.

Did anyone catch Adam Curtis' excellent 3 part documentary series 'The Trap - What Happened to Our Dreams of Freedom'?

It is legally available here on bittorrent here

Altruism is no delusion - though we have suffered a couple of decades of several Anglo-US so-called 'leading thinkers' deliberately claiming it is and setting about the wholesale undermining of such concepts.

It turns out that far from human beings only acting in small, selfish and a wholly self-interested manner at all times real people do in fact act on motives beyond such narrow confines.

In fact the only people who don't, it turns out (hugely revealingly IMO) are economists and psychopaths.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
I heard the Gordon Brown say on BBC Radio 4 that he was in politics to make a difference. Not very creditable as who gives up a normal life to just serve??

- Actually Freedom ERP just because you think along those lines doesn't mean everybody does.

I am sure you are right Sminkeypinkey. But the thread was on our Government and not just people in general. Lets flick this one around. What evidence is there that our leaders are in this just to serve?

Cash for peerages??
The fact the PM can afford several expensive houses
Cash for questions (Yes I know Tories but still relevent I feel)

I have yet to meet a poor MP or for that matter, a poor ex MP. How many of them are non-executive directors during or after their time as MPs

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
What evidence is there that our leaders are in this just to serve?

- "Just" to serve?

Well that implies one might not be interested in a career etc.

Why shouldn't people aspire to a career in politics and wish to serve the people and the country?

I don't think a degree of self-interest is necessarily exclusive from a desire to serve.....

......although I do think a lot of people have worked very long and hard to promote that sort of selfish outlook and deny a sense of civic duty and responsibility that used to be a hallmark of British public life.

(ironically it's from usually the self same people who in the next breath want to drone on and on and on about personal responsibility etc etc)

It's not a case of wholly one or the other and a perfectly natural degree of self-interest does not preclude a genuine desire to serve and see 'the people' better off
(cos afterall as was once so famously said "there is no 'them and us' only us" and 'the people' includes the families and friends of us all - and their families and friends etc etc).

Cash for peerages?

- Well the obvious flaw here is that career politicians are precisely the very people who do not get Peerages for cash.

They may well look for cash for their parties but it is not something they personally can directly benefit from.

I have no problem with the current rules, people who assist the political parties can get a gong specifically for their political work/support as determined by those able to nominate, you might call that corrupt but tbh if that s the level of our corruption then I think we get off lightly and the 'potential problem' is contained very well.

One might claim the HOL has a huge influence but under the present rules they really are an advising and revising chamber.

IMHO it sure as hell beats a system like the US has where outside 'support' produces an entire tier of unelected political people in an administration (sometimes for decades) along side the elected.

Besides, if you're looking for a standard of perfection you're always set to be disappointed......that's not to be complacent, just realistic and that fact of life hardly renders every effort worthless now does it?

The fact the PM can afford several expensive houses

- We have relatively (but not in overall societal terms) well educated and well off PMs and Ministers (tory or Labour or Lib Dem for that matter), that's just a fact of life.

......or are you after an ill-educated and deprived guy as representitive of us all and in tune with a majority?
I'm all for our democracy representing us all as a nation as we really are but I think there's a good case for saying that a decent - even comfortable - standard of living for our MPs and Ministers etc actually protects us from corruption.
I certainly don't want to see a return to the days when MPs were almost exclusively 'those with means' and 'ordinary people' shut out.

Approx £60k for a regular MP's salary is a very good salary but it's not exactly unheard of and vast wealth.
Particularly considering the hours expected; well, from those with a good conscience looking to do a good job and stand a chance of ensuring reselection by their party and being returned by their constituents at the next election.

In the current case being a very long-term British PM with a wife with a very 'highly profile' career as one of the UKs most senior Judges is also liable to see wealth (and also potential income, after being PM) well beyond what most of us can look forward to.......

.....touch of the socialist creeping out there Freedom ERP?
'Politics of envy' maybe?

Cash for questions (Yes I know Tories but still relevent I feel)

- Yeah ok but look what happened, caught, nicked and publicly disgraced.

.....and a couple of examples hardly damns the whole 646(?) of MPs nor the rest of the British body politic including the thousands of councillors who usually get very little for a totally thankless task.

I have yet to meet a poor MP or for that matter, a poor ex MP.

- Maybe that is so (pre 1997) but if you look at several of the new entrants from then on you will see people from housing estates and relatively lowly backgrounds.

How many of them are non-executive directors during or after their time as MPs.

- Usually only some of the very senior ones.

I'm all for ensuring MPs focus on their job.
Maybe some sort of ban on directorships and the various 'outside jobs' would get support from me - but then some of those titles are really just to give profile to some charities etc and they are nothing but a positive help.......or maybe it helps a local firm or industry in the constituency and keeping jobs.

As with so much in life if you really want to be balanced and reasonable it's hard to always be so rigidly black and white about things, right?


[edit on 30-3-2007 by sminkeypinkey]