illegal aliens, should they be allowed to stay in our country?

This is how they think. Don't take my word..here is how they treat black Americans. Just keep telling yourself their here to work.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by rdang]

hey wall building xenophobes, we were the 'invaders' at one time. all you do by hating them and wanting them out, is perpetuating your elitist caste system.

illegal or not, if the laws were realistic for the application process then people wouldn't be forced to cross the border to make the money they need to survive while waiting to be approved. I'm not saying they are all angels and want to do it the right way, but what realistic options do many of them have when there are kids to feed?

did america hold doors closed to the italians and irish during their mass integration into american society? the only real wall at that time, was the one of prejudice and "we the cool kids are better than you, and we don't understand you so we hate and fear you"

it's not acceptable to treat blacks this way by making them drink from another water fountain. but this is elitism now has moved to a new prejudice to specifically mexicans and central/southern americans, or those of that heritage.

how many of us are descended from those brave souls who came to the land of opportunity to thrive, not just survive? are they really any different from current immigrants "illegal" or otherwise. this uproar happens everytime we accept mass migration, now we just have stricter unrealistic immigration laws.

the immigration laws are antiquated, and serve to only reinforce an elitist system that forgets at one time our ancestors were the illegals.

i will accept no more racist, elitist, isolationism. we have become the "oppresive" countries our ancestors tried to flee to pursue a better life, a life of universal acceptance and opportunity.

-adhd

This is a subject that frustrates me to no end, especially for personal reasons.

I am in a long distance relationship and my boyfriend is English. He is extremely intelligent and useful, though he doesn't have a university education. If he wanted to live here without being married, he would have to hold a high status job to get a visa. We eventually want to get married and it is going to be a major issue to get him here because we plan on doing it the right way, the impossibly expensive way, the LEGAL way. Even after you get married, your spouse can still be denied citizenship. I'm wondering if it's even going to happen at all because of all the red tape.

I don't think it's fair AT ALL for the people who aspire to be law-abiding US citizens to allow people who cheat their way into the country. Illegal means that they simply don't belong.

Yes, it would be expensive to send them all home, but as someone mentioned here before, look at what kind of an impact it's having on the health care system. My aunts are neonatal nurses and they say daily they have illegals in the delivery room who don't know how to even speak a word of English. Meanwhile, natives and legals struggle and go into debt for health care, with and without insurance.

It's a ridiculous situation and no one seems to have a proper solution to it.

Originally posted by airrikka

I don't think it's fair AT ALL for the people who aspire to be law-abiding US citizens to allow people who cheat their way into the country. Illegal means that they simply don't belong.

Yes, it would be expensive to send them all home, but as someone mentioned here before, look at what kind of an impact it's having on the health care system. My aunts are neonatal nurses and they say daily they have illegals in the delivery room who don't know how to even speak a word of English. Meanwhile, natives and legals struggle and go into debt for health care, with and without insurance.

It's a ridiculous situation and no one seems to have a proper solution to it.

You're right. It is unfair. I personally think that if the American people would be willing to fund such an undertaking as "rounding up" the 11-12 million undocumented illegal aliens in this country, then it should be done. However, I don't think that Americans would be willing to do it.

So, the only other alternative that I can think of is to forget about those who are already here and secure our borders to prevent the present influx from continuing.

Also, we have to stop and consider the manpower it would take to round up all of the illegals that are in this country.The INS certainly doesn't have the capacity to do it. I suppose that if we wanted to "temporarily" declare a police state we could do it. However,I don't think I'd be in favor of it.

We cannot just forget about those who are already here.

I am in favor of a very strict elimination through attrition policy. This must be accompanied by an aggressive ID policy. Police must be allowed to ask for proof of citizenship.

If caught, immediate deportation, and no re-entry.

And the "anchor baby" law needs to be revoked immediately.

Over the course of 5 to 10 years, the number of illegals will be reduced significantly.

look at the bigger picture here...

in a perfect world, where anybodies needs were met financially to provide for themselves and flourish, would we really have any reason to deny someone to come to our country? what if it was to escape religious persecution, just as many our ancestors in america did?

i think and feel that it just comes down to "different is bad" the same rhetoric reinforced from our american school system to adult society.

for instance...

a teacher scolds a disruptive child. the teacher scolds because the child is "acting out of line with the reinforced conformity". other children in the class pick up on this signal at an early age. those who do not conform to the standards, are bad. our teacher showed us. non-conformity/different is bad. disruptive or not, they are not following the rules. If something is different, or not following the rules it's not a part of our group. how do children respond once they learn to identify different? they hate it. that's how bullies become bullies, that's how racism, and prejudice are nurtured.

our country has grown comfortable in the reinforced conformity. we look next door and our neighboors are "people like us". they speak the same language, they eat the same food, they wear the same clothes, and they have the same faith in their god. this is all familiar things to us, therefore not new, therefore not strange, and to one an extent or another we realize that they are not much different, than we are. therefore they are with us, and safe.

now someone new moves in, they look different than us, they talk different than us, they worship, and eat different from us. they are obviously not familiar to us. they do not fit into conformity. our teachers when we were young, showed us that non-conformity is bad. non-conformity should be singled out, and punished, the most significant punishment to those we perceive as non-confomring and different, is to initially ostracize them, and then eventually punish them subtley, then more openly, then if they still don't get the message. we outright slaughter them, ala roadside bombs, smallpox infected blankets, or concentrattion/death camps.

what if all they wanted to do, was to be an american like the rest of us, what new criterea would you set for them to become one of us?

you aren't us you speak funny, you shouldn't be allowed to be here non-conformist. you wear funny clothes but have a yankees hat on, nice try you'll never fit in. you no matter what should leave because we are racially and religiously pure, and we will kill to protect our elitist views, if no one does the right thing and realize, it's just a popularity contest. what's popular isn't allways what's right...

look at yourselves, by excluding these people, these humans, who bleed red just like you do, you are a racist who uses more modern politically correct terms that allow you to feel safe and justified, as you yet again act like a schoolyard bully to the weird kid.

you know what? I support a one world community of peace. but we are nowhere near advanced enough of a people to get past the petty
BS of different is bad.

watch a group of children playing in daycare, toddlers are the best example. do they really seem to give a damn about color, about families ethnic, religious, political, monetary difference? no they don't.

that's how it should be around the world. Because that is our first reaction without bias to other people, it's just not something we instinctually know, this elitism. what we know first is, people are people, we have no illusions of better breeding, we just all play nice together because no-one taught us racism and prejudice yet. And yes I will say it again, Babies don't know prejudice, they learn it later in life from others.

-adhd

I disagree with immigration not because they don’t conform but because a lot of them (not all) are not bringing anything to our country but things we don’t need. o and our fore fathers came to this country because of religious persecution not because their country was runned down and low on education. Immigrants are coming here because their country is over populated and low and education their not being threatened to be killed because of their religious beliefs. They come here because its much easier for them to cross a river and have a baby then it is to stay in their country and actually try to make it better.

I've been to mexico, people even beg on the streets there too. economically there are not enough opportunities for jobs to feed a family of 4. Why is it this way? Well in my opinion and by what i've seen and been told by Mexicans in Mexico, things are no different there than here in one respect...

The rich stay rich, and the poor stay poor.

You can armchair polotician your point of view that they need to better themselves where they are. However, the reality is the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. This has been in place there longer than the united states. That means any real opportunites to build yourself a nest egg is non-existent.

Thats one of the major reasons why our ancestors came to america, and that's why they the immigrants come here now.

You complain they take our jobs, well do you really want to do those jobs?
Your answer the money isn't good enough, or I'm too good for that work. I can't pay rent with that job.

Why the illegals take those jobs, is that they don't really care if to pay rent they have to group together with other illegals or otherwise. It keeps a roof over their heads.

And to that end, they form their own mini community who shares thoughts and ideas, and as a collective sees how they are treated, for being different. This in turn makes them see us as different from them, as if they didn't get reminded of it everyday, by us.

Those who forget their past are doomed to repeat it...

Rome fell finally not because they had become lazy, but because barbarians so envied their way of life, and felt like second class citizens.

What did these barbarians do?

They conquered Rome and started to act like Romans...

-adhd

ADHD,

That's all fine and good that they want to better their lives.

The fact of the matter is, they aren't doing it the legal way. There are ways that they can do it legally to which I personally welcome them with open arms. They're taking the easy way out and reaping the benefits that only legal citizens should have the privilege to.

Take social security, for example. They're now entitled to the benefits, because that's where part of their paychecks go. Some people believe their money should be their money and they should get it in the end. But guess what? Social Security is running out of funds! Where's the money going to come from that the Americans are owed? You too, my friend, are going to be impacted by this when the time comes.

Don't try to play the race card, either. It's not about race/nationality. I'd feel the exact same way if masses of Canadians were coming in illegally, as I'm sure most of the people in this country do.

It's about doing what is right.

I'd love to say, "Round em' up and send them back," but to do so would probably be more trouble than just letting the ones currently here remain.

/sarcasm
we should probably leave all the drug dealers, murderers and everyone else doing illegal things alone. best to let them do what they want because it would be too much trouble.
/sarcasm

heres what it comes down to... THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY! its not a very hard concept, they're trespassing. if i trespass on my neighbors land he can shoot me... so why is it ok to come from another country and trespass on American soil?

if you apply for citizenship and are approved, then welcome to America. If you sneak over the border then we might have to take you during the night and sneak you back.

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
economically there are not enough opportunities for jobs to feed a family of 4. Why is it this way? Well in my opinion and by what i've seen and been told by Mexicans in Mexico, things are no different there than here in one respect...

The rich stay rich, and the poor stay poor.

It is not the responsibility of the US to provide jobs to non-citizens, we have enough problems of our own. This is something that the Mexican government should be taking care of. They want a change? Make it happen. Talk to their own people.

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
And to that end, they form their own mini community who shares thoughts and ideas, and as a collective sees how they are treated, for being different. This in turn makes them see us as different from them, as if they didn't get reminded of it everyday, by us.

No. If they're treated differently, it's because they are illegal. When I hear the word illegal, I don't think of being free. I think, holy crap, I am going to be arrested. Not so much, these folks.

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
You complain they take our jobs, well do you really want to do those jobs?
Your answer the money isn't good enough, or I'm too good for that work. I can't pay rent with that job.

Another thing I forgot to mention is what is happening in our country is that the numbers of men attending college have been steadily declining over the years. What kind of jobs are available to men lacking a college degree? A big portion of them are jobs that illegals take. They're going to be jobs that Americans need.

you argue your points well airikka, and i commend you for it. i feel passionately about this topic, as obvously it hits home for you too.

a solution, not necessarily the popular one is to re-vamp the immigration policy, perhaps setting it back to the way it was in the ellis island days.

I agree with you on one thing, it is not americas duty to provide jobs for them, they need to provide for themselves. america is having a hard enough time employing unskilled labor as it is.

but im still in love with the land of opportunity viewpoint, give us your poor, your tired, your hungry...

-adhd

but im still in love with the land of opportunity viewpoint, give us your poor, your tired, your hungry...

that was back when we had a little more room to breath. anyway, advancements in science have shown us huddled masses are unsanitary. if i give Mexico a statue... will they stay there?

[edit on 3/22/2007 by bokinsmowl]

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me



You complain they take our jobs, well do you really want to do those jobs?
Your answer the money isn't good enough, or I'm too good for that work. I can't pay rent with that job.

-adhd

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind this statement.

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I
leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the
laundry and swept the floors.

I've done all the things you don't like to do.

I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house

You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan

You are Required to Educate my kids

You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my

family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also

hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my

friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my

RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I

do, and I'm just trying to better myself.

I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know,

I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost

of my keep””””””””””

There is nothing you can do about it without being

accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted
behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!!

so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America

I will say again. I have NO PROBLEM with those that get benefits who TRULY deserve them.