do you think SETI's Dr Seth Shostak is a debunker?

Originally posted by Densha82
So I ask again, do you really want actual scientists to take this seriously? Because under scientific scrutiny, even with some fancy burn markings, it doesn't follow that alien visitation is thus proven.

That's entirely where you miss the point. If the burn marks are 'fancy' and many of them are, then they should be investigated.

Many burn marks from UFOs exhibit unusual properties. Clearly, something made those burn marks and the cause should be investigated.

You pick on Farmer Joe far too much, as though you are dismissing him as a credible witness. Would you be as quick to dismiss the eyewitness testimony of police officers and military personel who also see UFOs leave burn marks on the ground? Ridiculing Farmer Joe is part of your agenda to dismiss his testimony to support the scientific evidence that has been left behind after his sighting.

I've heard Seth Shostak interviewed a few times on Coastotcoastam and for a while I was kind of frustrated with him. I thought he was being willfully obtuse about reported sightings, movies of UFOs, fighter jet hot pursuits of them etc. After a while I started to like the guy but I came to the conclusion that he is a useful dupe. He serves to keep a certain percentage of ostrich neck anchored a few inshes beneath the sand.

However, playing devil's advocate for a moment, what's wrong with that Billy Meier anyway. Why doesn't he get those alien friends of his to take a shortwave radio to Zeta Reticula System (they probably wouldn't know what a piece of equipment like that was) and tell them to broadcast a message in Morse code to Seth like, "Hi Seth. Here's your ticket to more grant money. Reticulans out."

I think SETI is a debunker organization...

I remember reading or someone saying that the radio spectrum they are looking in is one we're not even using ourselves. In other words, if another planet was scanning us in the exact same way we're scanning them, they would 'see' nothing...

No one is truely above the ridicule factor when talking about this stuff! Many high ranking ex-military and government officials have come forward with allegations but they are also quickly dismissed and trashed.

CSETI and the Disclosure Project has repeatedly proven this. They are actually selling a DVD with over 4hrs of testimonials and yet the hardcore skeptics are hardly moved!

Bob Lazar and John Lear with lots of credentials and personal experience in this field are also taken as a joke!

Even if the Joint Chief of Staff, the Secretary of Defense, and the President of the USA were to jointly make a public statement I am sure most people would rather just switch the channel and watch Britney Spears or Paris Hilton's new sex oddessey! Thats how pathetic our world has become!

Cheers and keep the porno tapes rolling!

I think the DR is a good guy..close minded but good guy. I have a question...did seti only use random coordinates to hear signals?...or they use some kind of pattern?..Because if you want to increase probabilities i would first try to locate system with planets (there are many now discover by telescopes)..look in that area instead of just random hearing noise...

Of course maybe when we hear the signal it would bee too late..maybe the civilization got extinct, maybe they communicate with more sofisticated equipment than radio signals now....a lot of if's...in the equation. If it's good..yes..does it have produce any goodquality signals over all this time..sadly no...no signals at all.

I think first the ET will present themselves on ships than hearing a radio signal...

That's entirely where you miss the point. If the burn marks are 'fancy' and many of them are, then they should be investigated.

Many burn marks from UFOs exhibit unusual properties. Clearly, something made those burn marks and the cause should be investigated.

You pick on Farmer Joe far too much, as though you are dismissing him as a credible witness. Would you be as quick to dismiss the eyewitness testimony of police officers and military personel who also see UFOs leave burn marks on the ground? Ridiculing Farmer Joe is part of your agenda to dismiss his testimony to support the scientific evidence that has been left behind after his sighting.

As far as investigating the actual marks left behind by supposed UFOs, I am certainly all for that. However, my point is that the burn mark alone are close to meaningless, because it would be difficult to come up with a better conclusion than what you said, "something made those marks". Even if I grant the luxury of assuming that these marks are made by UFOs, how do you suppose we prove it even with the strange properties they apparently exhibit? It's one of those things that is just really hard to prove because we really need something amazing, a piece of a ship, a real body, etc. No one will jump to the conclusion that strange/radioactive/etc markings are extraterrestrial without some better proof, no matter how much they are investigated it will always be inconclusive.

To the second point, I would just as quickly be skeptical of a police officer and military personnel as I would of kindly farmer Joe. I do not appeal to authority, only to evidence, and anecdotal evidence is still anecdotal no matter who is telling the story. Come to think of it, why do some of the best sightings happen around military bases? Of course we've all thought of the answer - military experiments and/or new aircraft - it's quite obvious, I would think, and not all military personnel are privy to that information, so of course they may have some strange reports every now and then, so maybe farmer Joe is a bit more interesting in that respect.

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
I am willing to bet a large amount of money that SETI is a privately sponsored military/industrial disinformation program and the government has at least some involvement behind the scenes!

Oh i believe so too.
As far as what i feel about him, and i have watched those shows on Discovery too, he must be in on the whole coverup, OR he is an idiot.
One of the two, and i suspect the former.

Hi people, look this testimonies and look the Dr Seth Shostak arguments.
es.youtube.com...