Europe is dead, America next...

Ste2652 - Just to say I live in York - not quite the pretty little tourist spot it's made out to be. We have seen more than our fair share of Eastern European immigrants come here for education and work. The influx has resulted in a drop in wages for non-skilled and allied trade workers. Most are hardworking and invariably are not here for welfare benefits, but all the same it is causing unease amongst many. Not only that but they are generally exploited themselves by ad hoc employment agencies. Additionally we are seeing an increase in violent crime and prostitution (which has gone through the roof). Add to this we have a significant problem with heroin - so crime in general is causing dificulties.

But as you said I digress....otherwise I agree with you.

The US is a different kettle of fish altogether from Europe, our culture is older, more established and we have greater understanding of the history that shaped us. This does not mean that the US cannot learn from the example of Europe. Immigration in Europe is less of a racial issue than it seem to be in the US, we are all a mix of a variety of ethnic groups that have mingled and conquered, we're a little Frank, a bit Dane, some Celt etc etc. Yes the majority are white but that is not to say that it is exclusively so - there have been african immigrants to the UK (I know my own history best - sorry for repeating the example) since at least the 1600s. We expect other cultures to assimilate sure and when they don't it does cause divide but on the whole it is economic factors not racial factors that cause unrest.

Are there enough jobs to support immigration, can the health service cope etc etc? Immigration will always cause problems if not managed and or controlled.

It seem to me in terms of religious factors, the US has more to fear from latinization than anything else. Much of our secular attitude originates from the latinisation of Europe (10 to 12th centuries) and the attempts of the Holy Roman Empire to control the doings and decisions of the various monarchs thereafter. The establishment of the US itself was a reaction to infringements on the individuals right to choose their own religion and how to practice it. The influx of immigrants from latin america could tip the balance and the US could become a catholic majority. The Catholics have their own agenda; politically and culturally.

Ste2652, has a point, Europe has evolved over many centuries. Study the history of Europe and it might give you a few pointers. Another civil war in the US might just be on the cards, you never know. That right to bear arms is a biggie and i can't see any government wanting their people to hold on to it (not sure about the AK though xphiles, but each to their own).

Originally posted by semperfoo
Muslim extremist beat their wifes and have no remorse for human life. They want a world under islamic law.

and white supremacists rape white women to punish them for "tainting" themselves by dating people of other races
they bomb churches and commit random beatings and killings
they want a world under hitler's law

They do so by spreading their religion by use of the "sword" which is what it says to do to the infidels in the koran if they dont comply to islamic law.

no, it doesn't say to kill people for not complying with islamic (or sharia) law. you're saying that without even citing a passage in the koran.

These ppl basically have the same mentality that they had 700 years ago when the crusades were still raging.

assumption

They will force their religion on you. I think it is those sort of extremist that need to be done away with. I dont like pat robertson but atleast he doesnt condone or do any of the things I mentioned above.

um, if he did any of the things he talks about he'd be much worse
www.positiveatheism.org...

and if you were to put him in an unstable situation (like the middle east) with the amount of power he has, who's to say he wouldn't do the exact same things?

But to stay on topic. I think that immigration is good for nations. Especially nations who are going through a demographic crisis. The US will need a strong population to stay strong throughout the 21st century. We have the economy to support a large population unlike other nations.

this i agree with. there hasn't been a point in the US's history where an influx of immigrants has harmed it.

The only problem with europe accepting muslim ppl is the integration of muslim values that are not european values.

...ok, you're clearly unfamiliar with how the renaissance worked. the renaissance took muslim values that had previously been greek values and integrated them into society with splendid results
general muslim values (ie, the ones shared by over 99% of the muslim population in the world) are no different from general christian values

Muslim extremism is another problem. Terrorist in other words. the ones who want to force their culture on others who might be unwilling to accept these values for themselves. Thus starting the stereotyping that will ensue among the general populous on both sides. And all that will give birth to a culture war that wont be pretty.

but muslim extremists aren't the only terrorists. there are plenty of groups taht could be labeled as terrorist that are strictly christian (IRA much?)

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well, Im not going anywhere so they better learn to speak english.

you sound just like the people in america prior to the civil war when talking about the large number of german immigrants

now, why can't the USA have 2 official languages? plenty of other nations have them with positive results.

I sure as hell dont fear them. My "intolerance" of them stems from the fact that this is MY country and if they want to live here, adapt to MY way of life.

yes, the same way that the good ol' pilgrims adapted to native american...
bad example

honestly, the USA isn't ANYONE'S country.
it's a nation built on the corpses from a genocide by slave labor...

Now that I have answered your question, answer one of mine:
Why are you willing to move or adapt to the immigrants way of life?

4 reasons
hotdogs
hamburgers
beer
apple pie

those are 4 classic adaptations america has made to immigrants' ways of life

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and white supremacists rape white women to punish them for "tainting" themselves by dating people of other races
they bomb churches and commit random beatings and killings
they want a world under hitler's law

I by no means support either. All are extremism, a form of an ideology that the world would be better off without having any part of.

no, it doesn't say to kill people for not complying with islamic (or sharia) law. you're saying that without even citing a passage in the koran.

Well I dont claim to be an expert at reciting the koran...

and if you were to put him in an unstable situation (like the middle east) with the amount of power he has, who's to say he wouldn't do the exact same things?

Assumption..

this i agree with. there hasn't been a point in the US's history where an influx of immigrants has harmed it.

Nope. No problem there...

but muslim extremists aren't the only terrorists. there are plenty of groups taht could be labeled as terrorist that are strictly christian (IRA much?)

I agree... I dont want to sound as if Im discriminating here. All are a problem. However muslim extremism (terrorist) are the ones who flew three 747s into both WTC buildings and into the pentagon. Muslim extremism believes in killing ones self in order to take out the "infidels", thus getting all those virgins in the afterlife, all the while supposedly "sending" the innocent ppl they just killed to hell. Muslim extremism is the sole reason why we are in a current "war on terror". We fight an ideology that is shared by a large mass. They do look at "unbelievers" as lower life forms.

Whilst it's certainly true that Islamic terrorism is the major threat today and stands for some disgusting and utterly deplorable ideals, I don't think you can simply 'write off' what the IRA and others have been doing.

Between 1969-2001, Republican terrorist groups have, according to the University of Ulster, killed 2,055 people. Loyalist groups have killed 1,020 people. That's 3,075 people who have lost their lives due to the actions of the various groups in Ireland, and indeed the mainland UK. This is Christian against Christian, I remind you. Staying with the UK, there's also Combat 18 - a far-right terrorist organisation which has links to David Copeland, a man who set off nail bombs in London in 1999, focusing on black, Asian and gay communities.

Another example is the Basques in Spain. Not all Basques, of course, but the Basque separatist group ETA who use terrorism to try to force the Spanish government to grant the Basque regions in Northern Spain independence. We then have concerns about terrorism in Germany from the far-right. Crossing over the Atlantic, the US has its share of home grown terrorists. White supremacist groups (Ku Klux Klan or the Creativity Movement being examples).

My point is that terrorism isn't just a threat from Islamic extremists (although this seems to be the main threat at the moment) - it's a threat from extremists everywhere, of whatever political or religious persuasion. In my view, the KKK/IRA/ETA is no better than al-Qaeda or Hezbollah. It's a problem everywhere (even in nations such as Iran) and we would do well to stamp it out because it's a danger to everyone regardless of who you are or where you live.