Papoose Lake- Setting the record straight!

Originally posted by Ghost01
That's a very genuine photo! As for what the object in the picture is, I honestly don't know. You have me scratching my head on this. The fact of the matter is this:
The disk-shaped object in the picture is most likely something moble (a air or spacecraft is a very reasonable guess). Being a moble object, we really can't tell where it came from!

Tim, before shooting off in this direction, you should at least consider what Shadowhawk said above:

Stu Brown of POPULAR SCIENCE magazine had a good print of the Russian satellite image. That circular "object" appeared to be simply a bubble in the film.

A photo glitch is always a distinct possibility. With a large format first-hand print, a photo analysis expert can relatively easily find out if a certain feature of a photo is genuine or an artefact of the photographing/printing process. Of course I don't know if Mr. Stu Brown is such an expert, but one should be able to find out.

Also, looking at the colours of the "object" (which look very similar to those of the surrounding landscape), the "film bubble" explanation is at least a plausible option.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx
Tim, before shooting off in this direction, you should at least consider what Shadowhawk said above:

Stu Brown of POPULAR SCIENCE magazine had a good print of the Russian satellite image. That circular "object" appeared to be simply a bubble in the film.

Also, looking at the colours of the "object" (which look very similar to those of the surrounding landscape), the "film bubble" explanation is at least a plausible option.

Regards
yf

Intesting! Now exactlly What is a Film Bubble?

I really don't know that much about photograpgh. I've never hear of a film bubble before.

Tim

If you look on google earth at bob lazar mountain, I think its slightlty to the south/southwest, there's another lakebed where you can clearly see semi-covered hidden landing strips, and a lakebed which has defined massive square and rectangle shapes in them. There's satellite looking things there and a bunch of other small random buildings. Last time I was there it was one of the few places not showing any detail whatsoever on hi-def setting, whereas even area 51 you could see the f-16s and whatnot.q

Originally posted by Brock Landers
If you look on google earth at bob lazar mountain,

What is Bob Lazar mountain?

I just went to google earth but it couldn't find anything with that name.

Tim

These types of mud slinging, name calling, verbal bash fests have ruined this section... I used to enjoy reading posts here, now it's just all turning into childish crap..

Originally posted by Ghost01
Here read up on the history of United Nuclear. Did you realise a few things:

-The Company does Government Contrating
-It's own by Robert Scott Lazar A.K.A Bob Lazar
- The Website says they do "Classified" work for the Government.
- the above quote from Bob's website list's his work location as: Area 51/S4 (guess what, even your old pal John Lear sais Area 51 is NOT S-4)

Where did I say Area 51=S4 For the twentieth time, I will say S4 is at Papoose Lake which is directly south of Area 51

Sometimes, I get the feeling I am talking to a brick wall!

If you don't agree with this location thats fine but at least stop putting words in my mouth!

Originally posted by Ghost01
Exactly why is it that the US Government is going to contract the Guy who "blew the whistle" on a Supposed Top Secret project to run another secret one for them?

I don't know why but perhaps they made some kind of arrangement/deal. You never know what to expect when dealing with governments!

Originally posted by Ghost01
You expect me to Change my beliefs as "PROOF" that I read the website?

No, not really! Anyone is free to believe whatever they want! The only thing I and others would expect is more decency and less bashing! Your discrediting campaigns against Phil Schneider, Bob Lazar, John Lear and others has not gone unnoticed!

Originally posted by Ghost01
You are ARROGENT in the way you talk to people! Perhaps I can enlighten you a bit:ATS Handbook

Read up on ATS Etiquitte! We actually have rules about how you are Supposed to treat other people.

I'm getting sick of your belittleing, smear tactics, cheap shots, and outright Insaults!

I have a right to defend people whenever I deem necessary. And talking about belittlement, insults and cheap shots isn't that what you specialize in?! All one has to do is take a look at your stupid-provacative threads!

Originally posted by Ghost01
I read your sources many times, I even quoted one of them above for your reading pleasure. However, I still don't believe a single word in any of them.

Oh really! Why am I not suprised

[edit on 24-3-2007 by SocialistAgenda]

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by Brock Landers
If you look on google earth at bob lazar mountain,

What is Bob Lazar mountain?

I just went to google earth but it couldn't find anything with that name.

Tim

Whew, too many brews that night... but anyways if you look at groom lake and zoom out a little bit there's another dry lake bed to the lower left and when I viewed it in december you could clearly see large square outlines in the lakebed looking like hangars or bases, and the area was blurred and I believe still is not in hi-def, whereas even area 51 is. It has a couple googleearth community labels, there's a bunch of hidden landing strips you can still see, and suspicious looking satellite things protruding out of the ground. I think this is where the real hacker #e is moved to.

[edit on 3/24/2007 by Brock Landers]

Brock,
Thanks for the info !!

Can you please provide a link to what you are speaking of ?

That would be much appreciated !

Thanks,
Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Brock,
Thanks for the info !!

Can you please provide a link to what you are speaking of ?

That would be much appreciated !

Thanks,
Lex

Go to google maps and enter this

bbs.keyhole.com...

It takes you there. It has KZ YUCCA AIRSTRIP labeled on it on google community on google earth. My current pc cannot run GE well enough... This lake bed is right below the tons of nuke craters, and had semi-covered land strips and earlier in december I saw images in the lake bed of what looked to be LARGE definitive darkened squares in the sand appearing as if they were hangars with some sort of camo-painted tops for this imagery. Also the area I'm specifying which is SW of Groom Lake I have never seen available in Hi-Def. On my friends super fast computer in Dec. we were viewing it from, it was also low def, (back when the square outlines were visible in the lakebeds) Perhaps they still are and my video card is malfunctioning, let me know, but if not, the images have been ... "updated". Google community is a good way for them to find otu what people know and where they know it is. I wish people would stop labeling hacker shyt on there and be more discrete, if there even is such a thing on the internet.

Originally posted by Brock Landers


Go to google maps and enter this

bbs.keyhole.com...

It takes you there. It has KZ YUCCA AIRSTRIP labeled on it on google community on google earth. My current pc cannot run GE well enough... This lake bed is right below the tons of nuke craters, and had semi-covered land strips and earlier in december I saw images in the lake bed of what looked to be LARGE definitive darkened squares in the sand appearing as if they were hangars with some sort of camo-painted tops for this imagery. Also the area I'm specifying which is SW of Groom Lake

I just typed in the address you gave. This is Not the Yucca Airstip. When you cut and paste that address, Google Earth takes you to the Nothwest corner of Groom Lake.

Try it with Cut and Paste. When you zoom out, you'll see very clearly that you are up in the Northwest corner of Area 51, Groom Lake.

Tim

As far as I can see, this area shows up in high-quality imagery on Google. From the description, it seems to be the airfields at Yucca Flat (Area 6). There is an airstrip on the dry lakebed and a paved runway (01-19) east of the lakebed. The paved runway is realtively new.

Can someone reference the original article/source of the Greenpeace story? I found a mention that it used to be on their (Greenpeace's) website, or that it was retold in a book, but where's the original article or interview/report from the people who ostensibly set foot on Papoose? The story has been regurgitated across the web for decades but I'm not quite certain it ever happened.

originally posted by: HumanOnEarth
Can someone reference the original article/source of the Greenpeace story? I found a mention that it used to be on their (Greenpeace's) website, or that it was retold in a book, but where's the original article or interview/report from the people who ostensibly set foot on Papoose? The story has been regurgitated across the web for decades but I'm not quite certain it ever happened.

This is what I could find:
From "Dark Eagles" by Curtis Peebles ISBN 0-89141-696-X
"In the meantime, the Reagan administration had begun a major buildup of strategic nuclear forces. This sparked opposition by "peace activists," such as Greenpeace. A standard tactic was attempting to disrupt military activities, particularly those dealing with nuclear weapons. On April 18, 1983, four Greenpeace demonstrators entered the nuclear test site via the dirt road that led to Groom Lake. For five days, they hid out in the mountainous terrain, before finally surrendering to the test site guards. It was widely believed that this incident caused the government to take action."

"Another sighting reportedly occurred in 1986. Despite the Groom Mountain land seizure, Greenpeace continued efforts to infiltrate the nuclear test site. During one such attempt, a group from Greenpeace was trespassing near the Groom Lake area. They reported seeing a black, triangular-shaped aircraft flying slowly overhead. The "group's hair stood on end" at the sight of the plane. Years later, several of the group said they thought it was a subscale flying prototype of the B-2." (Steve Douglass, "Project Black: The hunt for secret stealth aircraft," Intercepts Newsletter (December/January 1992/1993))

"Despite the sightings, these stories of large triangular Black airplanes received, at best, a limited following. Shamu, on the other hand, seemed more likely to be real. There were the eyewitness accounts of both the Lockheed engineers and Greenpeace protestors. It seemed likely there was a flying-wing test bed, which had pioneered the technology for the B-2 and the "TR-3A.""

a reply to: FosterVS

Thanks so much for digging that up. I also went 5 pages deep into Google until absolutely nothing related was to show. I do get the impression that the Greenpeace march across Papoose is an internet fabrication and that they only ever set foot on Groom.

originally posted by: HumanOnEarth
a reply to: FosterVS
Thanks so much for digging that up. I also went 5 pages deep into Google until absolutely nothing related was to show. I do get the impression that the Greenpeace march across Papoose is an internet fabrication and that they only ever set foot on Groom.

I am with you on this, it's either BS or hearsay, until proven otherwise.
I sent an email to Steve Douglass, to see if I can get a copy of this, as it is sourced as reference in the second paragraph:
"Steve Douglass, "Project Black: The hunt for secret stealth aircraft," Intercepts Newsletter (December/January 1992/1993"

a reply to: FosterVS
Thanks, folks, for bringing back 'the good old days'. What ever happened to John Lear? I know he got bounced, but his (former) role here could stand some analysis.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Lear has been the subject of a documentary by Jeremy Corbell in 2016 and done multiple phone interviews with Carry Cassidy of Project Camelot (youtube channel) and one as recently as December 2018. The story remains the same but John is good at breaking down the details in a way Bob never bothered to. For example he cites three specific instances Lazar had been in close contact with an "alien" where most people only know the popularized account that Bob mentioned.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Pretty cool ATS has a repository to past lost info huh

I've always found Lazar's story to be credible, because I believe he is a credible witness. The whitewashing of his life along with scrutiny by the government (or some part within the government) only adds to the credibility.

A few observations:

1) By all accounts, despite LANL's denial, I am confident saying Lazar did work at the facility either as an employee or a contractor. Their denial is bizarre, because this description not only appears in a news paper clipping from Los Alamos NM (which describes him as a physicist at their Meson lab) but an internal phone directory also listed him. Which leads to #2

2) His education was not able to be verified, however this is also not definitive. Educational institutions are very much so in bed with the government, and a lot of classified research happens at Universities across the country. Although classified thesis projects are seemingly frowned upon, no one was able to rule that out as a possibility. Regardless, even if Lazar lied about his background he may have done so simply because he wanted the job in which he was applying. Perhaps he was qualified but lacked specific credentials or the like - in the 80's this was much easier to get away with. Lying on a resume to get a better job isn't exactly breaking news or the crime of century.

3) Being hired at Los Alamos, again Lazar either had a higher education or falsely made the claims to get this job and/or the job at S4. They didn't hire him out of High School. And I still wouldn't put it past rogue government employees to erase someone off the books in order to discredit your claims. Hell, as far as we know having this kind of background (with a known lie, assuming there was one) issue makes him especially easy to discredit should he decide to blow the whistle

4) He volunteered for, and passed (NDI), multiple Polygraph examinations. The examiner himself had colleagues double check his work. While the polygraph is not foolproof and can be misused, they are still in use today for a reason. The results were the same no matter what test/examiner was scoring the charts: No Deception Indicated

5) He apparently knew the flight schedules of "disc like" craft over Papoose lake. Sure, he could've stumbled on to this information or simply staked out the area himself. But having this kind of knowledge does add to his credibility. Yes, I realize the AF supposedly had their own "flying saucers" built under Project 1794 or even the "Nazi bell" which seems to operate in a similar fashion

6) The immediate "120 page" highly classified briefing on EBE reeks of intentional disinformation. Lazar claims to have been subjected to highly compartmentalized controls, being limited access in S4 as well as the spacecraft themselves. However, being given a broad-brush briefing on all things ET does not make sense in the context of keeping the program compartmentalized or have anything to do with Lazar's job of reverse engineering the propulsion system of these craft. It could very well be that such a briefing was entirely misinformation or that parts were indeed true but other parts false. Some of the false parts could be employee specific, to enable them to more efficiently trace the leaker. Regardless, Lazar demonstrates his understanding of compartmentalization and surely must realize that leaving out the 120-page ET briefing part would likely add credibility. In fact, there are several points in his story where leaving out a specific part would've added credibility but the fact he has stuck to his guns is a good sign to me

I'm sure there are more reasons, and that is just my 2c. Everything about this guy says he is indeed a scientist and it is obvious he is smart. His apparent work at LANL added to that belief. There are reasons to doubt his story too, but again it could be nothing more than intentionally placed misinformation that Lazar would repeat as absolute fact (which the discreditors could then call upon later if needed). Hell, he even pointed out FBI Special Agent Thigpin, who was in the LVNV during the time Lazar claims conducting background checks for the Nev National Security Site area

I will always believe an even halfway credible story told by a credible individual over standard policy government denials any day of the week. They look us in the eyes and lie endlessly, anyone is more credible than a government denial. It is too easy to discredit someone as a liar while brushing over the real meat and potatoes of the revelation. Snowden's motives, Lazar's education, Binney's patriotism, Assange's allegations, etc. Even if Lazar's education is proven false, that in no way correlates to the story he told being proven false.