Why do we assume that.....

Even if they are only 100 years head of us - (which I think is a very low estimate) - but lets just use 100 years as a start, they would be leaps and bounds more advanced. Think about how much more advanced we are today than someone who lived in 1906. Hell, think about how much are advance we are than the 1970's. Once a certain level of technology has been achieved it doesn't take long for that civilizations knowledge to skyrocket. Can we even imagine how advanced our own planet will be one thousand years from now – if we don’t blow ourselves up before then anyway.

This might be off topic or what not, but try this little exercise. It opened a lot of thoughts for me. Too bad I'm not too familiar with hyper text mark up language. Just copy and paste to your browser.

www.pbs.org...

edit= never mind it did it on it's own.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by souls]

alot ofpeople can accept these kind of answers but i cant. which is why i reach my conclusion about interstellar travel being impossible. I hope im proved wrong.

Thestev , its not about whether earth is first orlast in the solar system or galaxy. Theres been enough time for verything to be colonized evrywhere! well at least so that we would notice

[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you can't accept these answers? Or they just don't sit right with you?

And I realise that, but that relies on the assumption that aliens would want to colonise everywhere. As humans, we haven't colonised the antarctic yet. If there was an undiscovered intelligent species living in the antarctic, should they think 'humans must not exist because if they were advanced enough to cross oceans they would have colonised us by now'?

As colonisation goes, you have to go through some pretty large assumptions (aliens would need to colonise other planets, aliens would want to colonise other planets, aliens would want to colonise earth) before reaching the conclusion that aliens do not exist because they have not yet colonised our planet.

thestev its just that those type of answers dont sit with me right especially if interstellar travel is possible. I suppose its as good a theoretical answer to fermis paradox as any- but its not my favourite.

btw i think aliens do exist possibly even in our galaxy and most certainly somehwere in the universe but they are unable to travel here.





[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Sorry yeti, I'm a bit confused. I don't mean to imply that there's any reason those answers should sit right with you, but early you said that this is the reason you've concluded interstellar travel is impossible, yet here you're considering these reasons with the proviso that interstellar travel is possible.

Originally posted by souls
because the universe is so vast, that life forms should be, or it would make sense that, they are at different levels of understanding. we are at a different level of understanding than dogs, and they are at a different level of understanding than fish.

Hey now.

I once had a pet catfish that would eat out of my hand. He would come to me. That's pretty much what a dog does.

lol, Stockburn. I don't mean to downplay your relationship with your catfish, but clearly you've never had a dog

[edit on 28-2-2007 by TheStev]

thestev,i dont agree with fermi entirely

i think if interstellar travel was possible we would see more signs of alien life around us.

if interstellar travel is not possible we would not see much evidence yet of other civilizations. (which is the case)

i think when we launch space telescopes like kepler/jwst/darwin we will start to see evidence of other earth like planets. Maybe SETI will find a signal. Or maybe we will have to send a signal first then wait for a response.

im undecided,maybe we are the most advanced civilization in the galaxy at this time? maybe others have died out long ago (the synchronicity problem)

i dunno if i answred your question :/


[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Hahaha, not really, but thanks for trying anyway

I guess what I'm asking is 'do you believe interstellar travel is possible'? Most of your posts seem to indicate that generally you agree with the Fermi paradox, and your last post indicates this strongly, but earlier your consideration was considered 'especially if interstellar travel is possible', indicating that it's a possibility you can easily allow for.

ok, yes its possible aliens might reach a stage where limitless expansion is not the way forward for their society even if they do have interstellar travel, that may be the reason we dont see much sign of them.

i will concede interstellar travel could be possible after all almost anythings possible but i like to stay within our current laws of physics when thinking about things like that.

fermis paradox really annoys me lol! its so simple but its so true. Im waiting for the results of kepler/darwin/SETI over the next 10 years. then we will know for sure wtf is going on!


[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

When I saw the hubble telescope picture of all the galaxies for the first time I was wowed. So many galaxies out there. That's why I believe there is life out there. So If there's that many galaxies and more that wasn't in that picture, then I can only guess that there's other universes. I look at the inventions that man and women have invented and look where it's got us so far. I think about all the inventions that we haven't invented yet. Not to long ago we only conquered certain lands and oceans. Then came along the Wright brothers and BAM! we conquered the skies. Now we are going into orbit and working our way to conquering space some day. So yes I believe that other life forms have built space ships and traveled through space and possibly other universes. I believe we have the ability to go where no man has gone before. I also believe that the military has already been in space flying these disk propulsion machines. That's only my opinion though.

Originally posted by Stockburn

Originally posted by souls
because the universe is so vast, that life forms should be, or it would make sense that, they are at different levels of understanding. we are at a different level of understanding than dogs, and they are at a different level of understanding than fish.

Hey now.

I once had a pet catfish that would eat out of my hand. He would come to me. That's pretty much what a dog does.

gotta get me one of those catfish but they taste so good...

TheStev, what is your favourite answer to fermies paradox?
mines is interstellar travel is extremely difficult/impossible.

whats yours?

[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
ok, yes its possible aliens might reach a stage where limitless expansion is not the way forward for their society even if they do have interstellar travel, that may be the reason we dont see much sign of them.

i will concede interstellar travel could be possible after all almost anythings possible but i like to stay within our current laws of physics when thinking about things like that.

fermis paradox really annoys me lol! its so simple but its so true. Im waiting for the results of kepler/darwin/SETI over the next 10 years. then we will know for sure wtf is going on!


[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Ok, so let's say the universe is expanding and it is infinite, if it is infinite that leaves room for every possibility happening no matter how long it will take, because infinity let's it exist. The possibility of it repeating itself also exists.

hey yeti101

i did a little reading on that Fermi paradox and you know what gets me, the fact that the ideas behind it are based on the current understanding of how we think the universe works, and physics here on earth. We don't know what it's like on other planets, we don't know the effects it will have on life, we know how it will effect carbon based life forms, but what about (x) based lifeforms?

I have a couple of problems with the Fermi paradox. The main one is that it relies on the assumption that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This is not true. Just because there can be no evidence found for contact with extraterrestrial civilisations does not mean that such contact has not been made.

Personally I think it's highly likely that we are in communication with other intelligent civilisations now, but it is being concealed from us. I find this more likely than the 'mass delusion' argument for the UFO/Alien phenomena.

So essentially, the Fermi Paradox is not a paradox for me because I believe there is evidence of contact with advanced alien civilisations - it's just that evidence is not available to the public.

Hey you guys may want to look at some of the writings and works of Dr. Michio kaku, At www.mkaku.org.

He is a theoretical physicist. He has some interesting things to say about space travel/ets/ and all.

He is not a conspiracy theorist.

well, thoughts on colinization...

who's to say that we're NOT the product of colinization? maybe people got tired of where they were and wanted to start fresh here? maybe we're an experiment of sorts. planted here without anything in the way of technology from the homeworld or maybe we're the product of a group that wanted to leave what they had behind.

not saying i believe that just saying we cant say it COULDNT happen. all it would take was for the generation or people that first got here to NOT tell their offspring thats what happened.

with the number of stars in our galaxy alone...and correct me if im wrong but arent we kind of on the outskirts of our own galaxy?, maybe they just havnt gotten this far yet. there could be several mighty empires on the other arm of the spiral or in the center of the galaxy and we're on the frontier.

bottom line is that in an infinate universe, there are infinate possibilities.

my dad used to love star trek cuz he could watch it and say "ya know, the beauty of this show is you cant say its not possible...any of it."

Originally posted by TheStev
I have a couple of problems with the Fermi paradox. The main one is that it relies on the assumption that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This is not true. Just because there can be no evidence found for contact with extraterrestrial civilisations does not mean that such contact has not been made.

Personally I think it's highly likely that we are in communication with other intelligent civilisations now, but it is being concealed from us. I find this more likely than the 'mass delusion' argument for the UFO/Alien phenomena.

So essentially, the Fermi Paradox is not a paradox for me because I believe there is evidence of contact with advanced alien civilisations - it's just that evidence is not available to the public.

On the nose


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Warnings for one-line or short responses

[edit on 28/2/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by Damocles
well, thoughts on colinization...

who's to say that we're NOT the product of colinization? maybe people got tired of where they were and wanted to start fresh here? maybe we're an experiment of sorts. planted here without anything in the way of technology from the homeworld or maybe we're the product of a group that wanted to leave what they had behind.

not saying i believe that just saying we cant say it COULDNT happen. all it would take was for the generation or people that first got here to NOT tell their offspring thats what happened.

with the number of stars in our galaxy alone...and correct me if im wrong but arent we kind of on the outskirts of our own galaxy?, maybe they just havnt gotten this far yet. there could be several mighty empires on the other arm of the spiral or in the center of the galaxy and we're on the frontier.

bottom line is that in an infinate universe, there are infinate possibilities.

my dad used to love star trek cuz he could watch it and say "ya know, the beauty of this show is you cant say its not possible...any of it."

exactly, innfinity! btw isn't hillary mentioned in the bible?