What the "bleep" do we know.

Just saw this documentary, attempting to explain the Quantum mechanics theory. Well made but utter tosh.

Just because of one experiment, (the two slit with electron experiment to be exact), which no one could understand, some scientists dreamed up some freaky even more complicated idea.

If an observer selects 1 of numerous possibilies in any given time, which then happens, then what happens if more than one observes the event? and choose different directions. Does every individual then experience a different reality. I think not other wise it might be noticed, in conversation for example.

Whats the opinion of you lot on this?

[edit on 27-2-2007 by Oblate Spheroid]

oh heres a video explanation of the double slit experiment

Originally posted by Oblate Spheroid
Does every individual then experience a different reality. I think not other wise it might be noticed, in conversation for example.

I believe that everyone constructs their own reality from one moment to the next. Of course, there are going to be large overlaps. This is what is termed "consensus reality". However, just as people may have a differing opinions on say, a piece of art, then their perception of "reality" is subjective based upon their own perception.

If you think of each individual human as unique, and then think of them as unique signal processors, doesn't it logically follow that each person’s reality, based on the processing of signals, must also be unique?

The maps we make of our reality do not define reality; they define how we see reality.

As RAW would doubtless say, the map is not the terrain.

[edit on 27/2/07 by Implosion]

I think that there are quadrillions, quintillions or sextillions of realities in existance or even more, based on the different feelings, thoughts, actions and decisions every person has made in their lives.

I see it like this. For ever feeling, thought, action, decision etc... you have had or made made you are in a different reality that is totally created by yourself, including the people around you. Lets say that the other people are actually avatars of the actual person (because they're also in their own reality), and those avatars are formed by your feelings, thoughts and decisions. That avatar is a mirror of what's going on inside of you, and is of course a projection of the person themselves. And a different, but very closeby/related reality that person is creating their avatar of you based on you.

Pretty difficult to think about that though... I know I could be dead wrong here though.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I know I could be dead wrong here though.

You could be, but I don't think so.

The brain is the hardware. All hardware needs software. The software is programmed through your unique experiences. No matter how similar two people are, they have not had the exact same experiences. These experiences, positive or negative, program you to think a certain way.

When you're a child, and you touch a hot surface, you soon learn not to do it again. You have been programmed.

If all people have unique experiences, then everybody has unique programming. In a universe with infinite possibilities, it follows that there be an infinite amount of points of view.

We can all agree on a lot of things. Again, "consensus reality". It is where an individual’s reality breaks away from the rest of the herd, that problems arise.

For an example of this, just observe the rational sceptic’s approach to someone who claims to have had some sort of paranormal experience.

Bless Robert Anton W! What a truly great mind! He also is the one who said, "Reality is what you get away with" ... Perhaps, here is extra food for thought in the equation.

Interesting comments, but reality can be hard and real.

Two people are standing on railway lines and a train is approaching from behind, they both turn arround:-

#one person "chooses" the "I can see a train oh no!!" reality

#The other one chooses the "thats not a train just an illusion of train, caused by a train on the other line reflecting from a large mirror like advertising board, combined with a low sun and high polution levels." reality.

What happens then? I bet they both get killed by the train no matter what they believe. or not.

Oblate Spheroid

I wouldn’t be too sure about dismissing the science and truth of What The Bleep. Did you know the man who set up the organisation that partly brought this Docu together was an American Astronaut, really not a fool or uneducated man. The research group can be found here:


Institute of Noetic Science

Good point about the train thing however this is more about the idea than that, superhuman powers that truly is for a comic book not reality life as we experience it..

Iagree to a certain degree with SuperBandit though I feel that others arnt just projections of our own personality or pysche...but we attract the events situations and people who are reflecting those type of expections and beliefs and them the same.

However at a very logical deep appraisal as Schrödinger and others have shown, you cannot prove to me that the train is out there separate from your consciousness observing it , or creating it. More than you can prove to me where your mind (consciousness here) is.... all we can prove at a fundamental, deep level, all that seems to be real is that the universe is made up of lots of potentials or electrical charge popping in and out of existence, holding lots of space that is nothing (thin Zen here and emptiness!) just empty space, into some type of structure and form, that is then perceived in a very limited way governed by the limitations and parameters of our senses, that is then perceived by a consciousness (or experience) that is unfindable or not fixed, has no "stuff to it" after first appraising the data on past experiences and reacting emotionally to it due to prior experiences. Oh yes and also whatever we perceive in that consciousness has taken some time to come to our awareness so we are all living in the past to a certain degree to!



There is a good thread here with lots of debate sparked by this documentary on ATS

ATS Thread Huge -- Its Time To Practise Quantum Theory Everyone

There really is something to all this and the two slits with a Photon or wave packet lol whatever you call it is a very profound repeatable experiment. A scientific fact. However this truly is just a very small amount of the supporting proven experiments in this area. Consciousness and thoughts mind, expectations do seem to have an effect on reality.

You really need to look at Scrodinger to understand all this as the tip of the iceberg.

This also is not a new concept, from the earliest philosophers also religious masters of all the faiths from across history and the whole earth have taught this. In a modern sense it first became popular with the Works of Jung and synchronicity. To modern science proving and I say again this is NOT THEORY, proving that something is going on between the Mind/Consciousness/Observer and outcomes in the material world if only to a slight degree. However if its only affecting matter slightly, well you really really need to think about that quite deeply, before you have faith in things as they seem and appear.

Carl Jung Pyschologist

Synchronicity


Look at the below, enjoy, infact try out the experiment yourself a little bit….try the creating your days bit of What the Bleep…. However im sure if you look you will see evidence already in your life. I mean im sure you have had a friend/relative/person you haven’t thought about seen or interacted with in a long time…and then you think of them and hey presto they ring o you bump into them….maybe mind might not be actually creating the building blocks of the structure of matter but its certainly influencing the behaviour of such matter.

The Man and Genius - Father of most things Quantum Schrodinger

And His Famous Cat - Experiment

The Lazy Man's Guide to Quantum Physics

Also as a last point honestly one of the contributors on What the Bleep is probably the most intelligent man alive on the planet, and his speciality is actually the quantum realm.. this is not far out hippy new age stuff its real.

Njoy all

Regards

Elf

Originally posted by bicnarok
What happens then? I bet they both get killed by the train no matter what they believe. or not.

So that would fall into the relm of "consensus reality", no?

Implosion

well yes it would have to be "consensus reality" however thats the whole point about this, it tends not to stop the train hitting you, however you would be much less likely to be in a position to be hit by the train in the first place , by events intuiton, and others helping you... so its all subjective consensus if you can get that?

regards

Elf

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
..........Lots of interesting info...........

Thanks for the links etc.

It is possible that the experiments are actually faulty, are intefered with some unknow aspect or experimenting with something which actually isn´t experimentable.

It is also irrelevant how "intelligent" someone is, or thier credentials. Some other people can also thing "deep". Quantum theory actually leads, if you follow the path, to the fact that I am the only real person in this world/illusion/game or whatever and I decide what happens seeing as the observer decides, and two things cannot happen at once, no one decides what I do so I must be the "one".

Well im off to save the world now byee





[edit on 9-3-2007 by Oblate Spheroid]

It is possible that the experiments are actually faulty, are intefered with some unknow aspect or experimenting with something which actually isn´t experimentable.

If thats the case it has been overlooked by the best minds in the world for the last 50 years or so.

The double slit experiment is repeatable and produces the same results over and over again. So that makes it scientific fact.

Schrodinger's cat experiment is a thought experiment and no one has been able to come with another thought experiment to disprove it. In fact the double slit experiment proves the validity of Schrodinger's thought experiment.

Hey sorry I posted on such an old thread, I just feel like my question isn't thread-worthy...

Anyways, in What the bleep do we know, or the first of the three series...

There was a story about how the native of the americas couldn't see the columbus' ship when he first arrived to the "new" land, and it took a shaman several days to finally see the ship after he continuously notices the ripples...

Well is there any truth to that, I surely never heard of this tale before, and I was curious if there any resources that documented that account?

reply to post by skyblueff0


Nope, it was made up for the purposes of the movie (or by someone else espousing similar beliefs, probably not too long before the movie was released). You'll not find that particular piece of information anywhere reputable.

edit: nevermind... I shouldn't watch these video when I'm tired lol



[edit on 9-2-2009 by Soboro]

Isn't this pretty much the jist of the observer effect?
That just observing a particle somehow changes it?

The water experiment was more interesting (although I often confuse what the bleep do we know with another doc with most of the same people...)

reply to post by Gazrok


No, this particular claim is something else entirely. That you literally CANNOT see something if you don't know what it is. At best it's a spurious psychological claim.