Real Talk about MINORITY Privilege from a Self Proclaimed NON Racist.

Originally posted by Royal76
This only breeds contempt.

I theorize that, in some people anyway, it merely justifies in their minds the contempt they already felt.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by befoiled]

No matter what anyone else says..

You will just support the other side no matter what truth comes out.

Originally posted by befoiled
There is still so much racism around I'm beginning to wonder if mere laws are enough.

Laws are definitely NOT enough. Individual and institutional racism still not only exist, but are alive and well. Laws are great and necessary, but there's always ways around the laws and there are corrupt people in every aspect of society.

This is currently "the way it is". It's not right, the playing field is not even, and a lot more has to be done in the way of education and forgiveness of the past for us to move along to where we need to be.

In my opinion.

Either way, the current reality for many blacks in this country is that they have a tougher road than whites.

True, but said by itself, that statement isn't complete, in my opinion. Because while the current reality for many blacks in this country is that they have a tougher road than many whites. It's also true that there are other aspects of society that have a tougher road than many blacks. And I do think it's important that we look at the whole picture. I'm a total picture kinda gal. There are blacks that have had it SO much easier than me.

I mean, we're in transition. And that's great. Years ago, I would have agreed with your statement with no qualifiers. But the truth is things are changing. And the more we hang onto the realities of the past, the slower things will change. The more we see, appreciate and expect changes toward true equality, the faster we'll get there.

Oh, God, I refuse to think that we're genetically predisposed to be a bunch of racist freaks! Please. There's gotta be a better way!

[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This is currently "the way it is". It's not right, the playing field is not even, and a lot more has to be done in the way of education and forgiveness of the past for us to move along to where we need to be.

I agree that the playing field is not even on a number of fronts.

I believe the litmus test will be an economic one: When the average income of a black family comes reasonably close to that of whites, then we will have achieved something. To stop these programs now (that doesn't mean we can't improve upon them) would have the opposite effect.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by befoiled]

Yeah, I don't think the programs should be stopped. I think they should be properly used and not abused.

As regards the level playing field, I think the "field" has been tipped one way for a long time, and we've all gotten used to it like that. Ideally, it would be slowly brought to level. But that's ideal. And it's going to take a while to get there, so in the meantime, until we get there, these programs are very important to help the people who were disadvantaged while the field was skewed.

When you're on a boat for many hours and you get your sea legs, getting back on land doesn't feel right. That's the squabbling I hear from some people who don't like the programs. They're used to the tilted playing field and it doesn't feel right to have these special programs as the field takes on a more level position.

And I say... Ya can't please everyone. I say that a lot.

Does it include professional athelets?

You would think that when a guy make $100 million that it would push the numbers up a little.

The question is...Why are we defining ourselves by our race? Why can't we define our self's by who we are, what our character is. Not the color of our skin.

To be honest we live in a Capitalist system. Not a Socialist system. The truth in that is that the smartest ones step forward reguardless what their skin is.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by Royal76]

Professional atheletes are not an average family. Talking about an average family means a family whose jobs are similar. If you throw all the black engineers in a bucket and all the white engineers in a vat and stir them all up so they melt together and then separate one out of each, the white one is going to make more than the black one. That's the way it is today. There are plenty of studies that prove that.

It's not as bad as it used to be (just like women) and it's getting better all the time. People just have to keep on keepin' on and we'll get there.

I don't understand why people define themselves by their race. I don't. I don't even define myself by my gender. There are too many different types of women for me to relate to that. I am an individual.

Originally posted by Royal76
The truth in that is that the smartest ones step forward reguardless what their skin is.

That's true, but speaking in generalities, the white guy has longer legs. Or a head start or however you want to say it. In general, it's not 100% even. It's just not. We're not there yet, but it's nothing to feel guilty about. We'll get there.

Do we take away the top earners as well as the bottom earners and then average?

Why don't we throw them all in to one group and divide by the number that's how we get batting averages ???

How can you have an average and no include everyone?

Does a guy/gal who suddenly come into wealth leave the group?

No.

By the way, if you take all the white actors and put them in your group with the black athletes, your athelete theory gets stomped.

How you get the average is take all the black and white people of similar professions and compare them. If you take all the black lawyers and all the white lawyers and get the average of those groups. It's the only way to compare.

I'm not sure about Black athletes compared to to white athletes, but it's probably because black athletes are simply better. Therefore get paid more and get more jobs.

But to get an average, you have to compare:
Black teachers to white teachers
Black engineers to white engineers
Black actors to white actors

In EACH of these groups, the average of the white group is higher than the average of the black group.

Here's a handy chart.

Edit: That chart's from 10 years ago and from what I'm finding, today whites are regularly paid less than Asians and sometimes less than blacks. More later.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Here's a more recent chart from 2001 and 2002. It's looking a lot more even than I thought. There are some fields where "minorities" make more, some where they make less and some where they're about even with white people. It's good to see this.

And Affirmative Action is (I'm sure) at least partly to thank for the equality.

Chart 2001, 2002

Here are a few excerpts from the chart:

Median Salary for Master's Degrees

The underrepresented minority category includes black, Hispanic, American Indian/Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian/other Pacific Islander.

All Science & Engineering and health fields:

White $42,000
Asian $56,000
Underrepresented minority $43,000

Biological/life sciences:

White $41,000
Asian $40,000
Underrepresented minority $38,000

Computer and information sciences:

White $70,000
Asian $60,000
Underrepresented minority $54,000

Mathematical sciences:

White $50,000
Asian $57,000
Underrepresented minority $55,000

The Asians who are sterotypically known as the hardest studiers, and the best students, were matching or overmatching the rest.

To the BEST Person should the BEST job go to

Originally posted by Royal76
The truth in that is that the smartest ones step forward reguardless what their skin is.
[edit on 28-2-2007 by Royal76]

...or who their rich daddy or uncle was. Not a lot of old money among blacks.

I'm not a sociologist or a statistician, but I'm fairly sure some reasonably accurate numbers could be produced.

Sure, throw in the black atheletes. Throw in Oprah. Throw in Gates, Forbes, and all the wealthy. I don't think it will change the outcome.

Oprah owns half of the world already. Running for President would be a step down for her. You throw her in and the average African American makes $600,000 per year.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Royal76]