U.S. court upholds same-sex teaching to children

Kilgore, I wasn't addressing you or anyone in particular when I wrote that about anal sex, it was just a general comment.
And I agree, we don't need to teach our young children the specifics of sex. But that isn't what happened here. It was a fairy tale, pure and simple, with no more sex than Grimm's fairy tales. I think it's a good way to introduce young children to the concept. You read them the story and then let it go, they can form their own opinions or ask their parents about it.

Sorry Forestlady - I wasn't as such addressing you either, I was clarifying to Mystery Lady that I was only referring to anal-sex and not sexual activity in general.

I don't see any harm in children being left to draw their own conclusions from a fairy story, as long as they are left to it and not drawn into sexual issues. I am in favour of children being able to stay innocent of sex (any sex) for as long as possible. Childhood represents a very short time in our lives, there is enough for kids to worry about without sex becoming an issue too early - or by expecting children to understand sexual differences.

As I said there are plenty of books which deal with relationships and hopefully children will learn about love and have friends, through structured education, by example and via their own explorations. My son, asked me where he came from and I told him he grew in my tummy, (at four) that answer satisfied him. I realise it won't for long and tougher questions will inevitably follow. But that is my job, not the job of a teacher.

The thing that concerns me is the need to pidgeon-hole people as early as possible - to segregate people into groups of like-minded. Kids are expected now to know what they want to be (career) for the rest of their lives at eighteen. Will we next expect them to know their sexuality when they are twelve. Some people are born gay - I agree, but some are not. We all go through a period in adolesence where we are much more ambivalent, the crush on a teacher we admire, a very close friendship, sexual experimentation - this is perfectly normal. Just as the 'straight' may become confused that they could be 'gay', the 'gay' may be confused that they are 'straight'. This is natural, and the only way the correct path is found is through support, time and testing.

I don't want any child feeling as though they have to choose their 'team' before they've tried any of it out or even know what 'it' is.

Educating children to the differences that exist amongst us, only highlights the differences and allows for persecution. It does not make people more tolerant, if anything it works to the opposite. The best thing for me, is for children to learn from their own experience, to be a good friend and to respect the choices of their friends.

It is a moral problem for me and many others who share the same beliefs as I do, and read the same Bible as I do. That moral issue is never going to go away in society as a whole. It will always be there, because there will always be people who see it as a moral problem.

"Yet you can't even grasp that fact, you prefer to teach your child fear and hate. Why?"

Why is it always considered hate when Christians stand up for themselves and say homosexuality is not ok with us. It is immoral and a sin. Why is this so? Do you actually think Christians ban together to beat up gays? I don't think so. Most of us true honest to God Chrisitans actually teach what you call tolerance. We call it loving your neighbour and loving your enemy. Something many Christian bashers need to learn.

Besides there are just as many if non-Christians that are against homosexuality also. It is not just a moral problem for Christians.

"You yourself said that you wouldn't want your kids associating with gays. "

Exactly where have i said that?

This has nothing to do with a race issue, or how animals behave. You do realize that we are different than animals? I believe God set us above animals. What animals do, doesn't necessairly mean we should do the same things, unless you really want to go back to basial nature.

Neither would I want to see any gay treated badly, as if they are abnormal, beaten up, or worse yet how Hitler treated them in the concentration camps. That was a total atrosity. Gays are normal human beings just like everyone else, that includes sin and being immoral. Heck, just because I'm Christian, doesn't mean I don't sin or not do things that are immoral either. Everyone is a sinner, and besides that is what forgivness is for. How many times do you forgive a person in a day? 7x70 meaning indefinitly. Therefore to be able to forgive that much, there is no room for hate, or looking down on others because of what they do. I'd be wrong for doing that, because I would be judging them. Your right gay is not a disease, but neither is it in-bread or biological.

The gay agenda is to push it so far as to make people think they are gay when they are not. It starts with reading fairy tales to as young as age as possible to be able to plant seeds in their minds, and to make them confused later on. The only reason people get confused about it, is because it is a choice. If it wasen't, then there would be no confusion. We are suppose to be teaching them right from wrong, morality, values, and norms, not confusing them. Yes, I'll teach mine my values, which has nothing to do with hate. Yes I'l teach them it is against the Bible, which I believe is God's word, but I will also teach them love, and toleration that go beyond what the secular world thinks of toleration.

Later on if they choose to reject it and become gay, then so be it. I'll pray for them. At least I know I will have taught them what I believe is right, and in a way so they don't hate. Why is that such a hard concept? It goes along the same line that if a killer kills someone you love, you don't hate them. Yes, you are griving and angry, but you don't hate them. Yes, Christians have done that, and have truely come to terms of love thy enemy. It can be extremely hard to do in some cases. Someone telling me that they are gay will never have the impact that a killer does, yet you basically assume that I and all other Christians will act as if they killed our cloestest realitive, and want to severly hurt them. Why is that?

As I asked before, where do we draw the line? Let's assume that the gay's pushing their agenda won. Now the secular people who are bi-sexual and love orgies start to say, hey this is normal also. Lets have fairy tales about the king, king, king, princess, and princess who all love each other. Lets teach our little children that this is Ok and perfectly normal. We want marriage rights also just like the hetrosexuals and homosexuals. Then the next group steps up, and say hey we had to be in the cloest such a long time. We should get recognition also, and beastality should be acceptable as anything else. We should have the right to marry the animal we love. Oh, lets start by writing about the King and the Goat.

No matter what is said, the secular world will always assume that the Christians must give up their beliefs and values in face of what they call tolerance. This is where real Christians, not so called Chrisitans, will not budge. They have stood up to worse, and are standing up to much worse in other countries over other issues. I have already seen where pastors were jailed last year in Canada over this issue. Is that what your tolerance dictates, when you feel the other person isn't tolerating your set beliefs? Is that what you want here for Christians and pastors in America?

I'm not advocating going back into the closet. I will advocate to keep it where it belongs in the bedroom, and to discuss it when a parent would naturally discuss hetrosexual sex. I said naturally, not when the school says it is ok.

I don't see other groups who have other sexual prefrences coming out and demanding their rights and acceptance. Through the internet, unfortunatly, I have found out there are much, much worse things that people practice sexually than homosexually. Some of those practices, I could never, ever, ever tolerate. Yes, I would run, not walk, run away from those people. A gay I would go out to lunch with as long as we understood each other.

All I'm really trying to advocate, eventhough it seems like I'm doing a miserable job at it, is tolerance on both sides of the fence. Not necessairly accetance. Homosexuals don't hate Christians just because of their beliefs, and Christians don't hate homosexuals, and to see them as God sees them. To do that, you have to love and not hate.

Homosexuals, don't keep pushing and shoving your agenda on us and our kids trying to force us to believe it is ok and normal. Christians, don't keep Bible thumping them on the heads. I litterally had that happen to me, and it hurts like hell. Had a headache for the rest of the day. Neither side will get anywhere with any of those types of tatics. All it does is cause people to hate more.

Now I'm seeing that discussions turning into debates like this cause each side to feel like they have to defend their own position. The other side is not really hearing what you are saying or even trying to say. People become bull headed, and stop listening.

So far what I'm seeing is that what this breaks down to is the gays want everyone to accept them as normal and to prevent more hatred against them. Therefore they feel they have to intorduce the concept to children at young ages to counter the parents assumed bigeotry against them. Anyone who believes being gay is immoral and sinning automatically hates gays and are anti-gay. The gays have to fight that hate no matter what it takes.

As the gays fight for their rights, the ones who believe the act is wrong feels threatened by the gay advocates tremendous pressure. They now feel that the advocates took it a step too far and turned it into a serious agenda needed to be countered. They are angry at the homosexuals because they are trying to force them to believe it is normal. They feel like the homosexuals are trying to brainwash their children. Now these people feel they have to fight for what they believe in, and see the homosexual movement as a threat.

The gays in turn see that as automatic hatred towards them. Then tension builds up on both sides. Neither side can really compherend that the other side really doesn't hate them. Then acts of extremism on both sides enforces that each side truely hates the other side even if the extremism was only enacted by a small minority. The minority is now seen as the entire group. This continues on for so long, that both sides do in fact really start to hate each other. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and seen as a hater.

Did I leave anything out?

(Retorichal question) Will there really be an end to it?

Edit: Wait a minute. How'd this get in here? Wrong thread....jeez.

[edit on 3/27/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff


Edit: Wait a minute. How'd this get in here? Wrong thread....jeez.

[edit on 3/27/2007 by Griff]

No problem. Thanks for bringing my attention to the likes of Fred Phelps in the other thread.

For those of you who are saying Christians hate homosexuals, and basing it on the likes of Fred Phelps and others that teach that damable message. Forgive me, now I know where your hate is stemming from. I believe Jesus would have called him a snake and viper. Terms he only used against the corrupted spiritual leaders at the time. Him and other like him need a spiritual lightening wake up bolt.

They miss the entire message of the Bible. These so called Christians never really read the parable of the Good Sameritan. Do you realize at the time Jesus taught that parable, that the Sameritans were considered the worst enemies of the Jews never to be talked to or let alone seen with.
Guess what, for Fred Philips and his ilk, homosexuals are the Sameritans.

Thanks for the insight Mystery_Lady. I forget sometimes that most Christians are just normal loving people and people like Phelps are the minority. Take care.