How many Illegals live on Bush's ranch?

I'm not sure of how ranches are ran in Texas but in California almost all ranches these days use illegals as cheap labor to handle the day to day work. I would imagine Texas would be like California with regard to illegal immigration.

How can Bush afford to run a ranch without illegals? How can a ranch run without illegals these days? If Bush who has never successsfully ran a business in his LIFE can run a ranch without illegals why can't all ranchers and farmers do the same? ? ?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
How can Bush afford to run a ranch without illegals?

You have posting no information about the size or scope of his 'ranch'.
You have posted no information about the number of employees (if any).
You have posted no information about anything at all.
All you have posted is ... I assume he's guilty 'just because'.

You are right flyer, I was going to include a link, but didn't for one reason or another. Well, here is a link to Prairie Chapel Ranch which looks to be G Dubya's 1583 acre ranch Northwest of Crawford Texas.

1583 Acres to me is a lot of land for some Americans to ranch by themselves!

Let me know what other info about the ranch you desire Flyer and I will find it for you.

I couldn't find info about the employees of the ranch, maybe you could try finding something.

Flyer fan, yes, I did assume he was guilty for owning a large ranch, because to me that means he NEEDS illegals to run the business successful. Just because you can't make the same association I did doesn't mean you are right.

Flyer, have you EVER in your life been on a ranch? Do you have the slightest idea of what it takes to run one? Didn't think so. Thanks for saying even less than me. Either attempt to form an opinion, or spam elsewhere. If you need info to justify your own opinion you can find it just as easy as myself. I have defined my argument, and I don't need anymore evidence to get this debate started. If you need more evidence for yourself find it!

Id guess that the ranch simply isnt functioning to full capacity. Its probably more of a article of affluence than a real ranch. Like when some New Yorkers decide they want a farm and buy an overpriced 250 acre chunk of PA without knowing how big an acre is. Then they use maybe 5 acres for a time and get sick of the hard work and keep it as a Summer home until theyre forced to sell most of it to developers to make ends meet.

I really doubt Bush uses or has even seen all of his "ranch."

Originally posted by Low Orbit
1583 Acres

Good. That's a good start.

Let me know what other info about the ranch you desire Flyer and I will find it for you.... If you need more evidence for yourself find it!

That contradicts itself. Which is it? You will provide the proof, or you demand that we all go find proof that backs up your allegation??

I couldn't find info about the employees of the ranch, maybe you could try finding something.

No. That's not how it works. You made an accusation. It's up to you to prove it.

Flyer, have you EVER in your life been on a ranch? Do you have the slightest idea of what it takes to run one? Didn't think so.

WRONG! My former inlaws ran one and I lived in Texas for two years. I know the difference between 'with' and 'without'. Do you? Is the Bush ranch with or without?

spam elsewhere.

Asking for PROOF isn't spamming. It's asking you to prove what you said. Without proof, or at least some common sense statistics, it is YOU who are most likely spamming the boards.

I don't need anymore evidence to get this debate started.

It's up to YOU to provide evidence to support your accusation. So far, you have none. If you can at least give 'reasonable doubt' then I will absolutely back you .. but for now, you have no evidence. All you have is 'it's a big ranch so it must have illegals'.

If you find real evidence of illegals, then please post it and let us all know. That could explain why Bush isn't in too big of a hurry to build that security wall that our country needs. It could be a worthwhile topic .. if there is information to back the allegation.

edited ONCE to fix quote


[edit on 2/21/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I really doubt Bush uses or has even seen all of his "ranch."

Isn't the 'ranch' just three bedrooms? We don't even know if it's 'with' or 'without'. I have never seen any farm critters in the shots of The Western White House. How much ranching can anyone do (or be in charge of) when they aren't even there most of the time?? Not much.

I do not think Bush's ranch is a working ranch. He mostly uses it for rest and recreation so I would call it a hacienda instead of a ranch. If there are any illegals there, they are probably hiding out in the back 40 and the President does not know they are there.

Flyer, I don't believe you. If you have been on a ranch you would understand that it takes a lot of manual labor to keep going. Just because I can't find a list of ranch employees doesn't mean I can not discuss it. Maybe Bush does what all the ranchers and farmers do out here in Northern California and hides the illegals in the freezers when INS comes by. Why would Bush make such a list of such illegals? How could anyone make such a list?

If this was posted on ATSNN or Breaking News I would have to list sources but since it in US Politics and everyone already knows the ranch exists I am putting out the question, how many illegals live on Bush's ranch?

Flyer find another thread, you still don't have an opinion TROLL. So leave me alone. I much rather have no one write on this thread than you.

Thisguy, even if the ranch is just for R&R there is still plenty of work to be done on 1500+ acres. Just a few things I can think of is fire prevention work, it sounds like he has wild game on the ranch so there should be a couple people watching the animals on some level etc, etc, right?



[edit on 21-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

Even if Bush has his ranch flooded with illegals its not hypocrasy. He hasnt done anything to seal the borders. He refuses to pardon the agents who went to jail for doing their job. Corporate interests are wrapped all up in this mess.

I wouldnt doubt him having illegals at all. Mr. SPP.GOV and all.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Flyer, I don't believe you.

That's your problem.

As i said, my former inlaws owned one. And it was 'WITH' ... They didn't have illegals. Just because someone has a ranch doesn't mean that it's 'with' and it doesn't mean that they use illegals.

You still haven't said if you even know what 'with' and 'without' is.
You also still haven't told me if Bush's 'ranch' is 'with' or 'without'.
Do you even know what you are talking about when it comes to ranches?
I'm not an expert but even I know what those terms mean and I know what they mean as far as the number of employees goes.

Flyer find another thread,

No.

you still don't have an opinion TROLL.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? I don't have an opinion? That makes no sense.

And as far as 'TROLL' goes ... Hardly. Telling you to provide proof of your statement that a person who owns a ranch has illegals working on it isn't being a troll ... it's making you put up or shut up. You made a BIG insinuation based on ... on ... what? 'oh it's a big ranch so he must have illegals'. That's a crock.

Provide some proof.
Provide farming details of the ranch - is there ANYTHING raised there?
Provide stats on the number of legal employees.
Contrast the number of legal employees with the number needed to run the place.

Otherwise ... this thread is just spam and the answer to your 'question' of 'how many illegals live on Bush's ranch' is ZERO.

Edited to add -

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Even if Bush has his ranch flooded with illegals its not hypocrasy.

Like I said .. it would explain why he hasn't bothered to build the security wall on the border.


[edit on 2/21/2007 by FlyersFan]

What a ridiculous thread. You are saying that Bush has a ranch, ranches needs employees, therefore (therefore? this is here your argument falls apart) Bush must employ illegal immigrants. And then you ask us how many illegals are employed on Bush's ranch.

What a bunch of bullcrap. Do your own homework.

If you are using as a comparison the fact that Nancy Pelosi uses illegals on her vineyard and in her hotels, that doesn't wash, either.

You already showed your ignorance with your opening statement:

I'm not sure of how ranches are ran in Texas...

So deny ignorance. Otherwise, you have a big hole in your bucket.

JSO relax, breathe, it's going to be ok. just kidding.

Why is my argument so riduculous? Think about it, how many farmers and ranchers, do you know these days that don't use illegals? I live more or less in a farming community and everyone uses them, if they don't they will either go broke or their crops won't get picked.

Maybe it is ridiculous if you are on the east coast, a foreign country, or another world, but where I am at, it's the norm.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Even if Bush has his ranch flooded with illegals its not hypocrasy. He hasnt done anything to seal the borders. He refuses to pardon the agents who went to jail for doing their job. Corporate interests are wrapped all up in this mess.

Thisguy, you are spot on! He has done less to stop illegal immigration than any other president in our history. Bush after all locks up Border Patrol for doing their job, lol(but not funny haha)

Well, if illegals don't work on his ranch who does, Ompaloompa's? Seriously, I don't think they allow Americans to do those jobs.
And if Americans are working on the President's ranch in Crawford why can't they be working on every other farm and ranch in the country, what is so different between the president's ranch and everyone elses.

This really bugs me about both parties. What happened to the "give me your huddled masses yearning to be free" part of our country?

Sure there is a lot of illegal immigration coming from South of the border. The only reason they are coming here is to get a better life for themselves because that see that the United States is a place they can do better in. Much of the anti-illegal immigration has a tinge of racism to me, they just sugar coat it with the illegal part of it to me.

I have worked in many positions where I have hired legal workers from Mexico up here in Michigan and paid them more and hired them before U.S. citizens. Does that make me bad? They worked harder, showed up all the time and on time and never caused me problems like Joe Blow who doesn't care about doing a job right the first time. Then I have to hear "Why did Miguel get a raise and I didn't, I've been here longer, crap" That's the racist undertones I see and hear in much of the discussion about Illegal immigration.

While I don't condone Illegal immigration, I worry about how many seem to think just because someone speaks Spanish and not English first, that they are automatically "those dirty, job stealing illegal immigrants" You don't hear the same venom directed at Asian immigrants, why is that?

Remember, for many of us our Grandparents were in the same shoes as people nowadays. My Grandpa came over from Sweden at 14, by himself, and never collected Social Security or had a bank account, he was an illegal immigrant. He and many others like him, built this country, all he came for was the opportunity that was/is America.

Pavil, you said you were from Michigan, is that North of Canada? I don't think you are qualified to discuss illegal immigration issues in California and Texas, however I am certain you are qualified to discuss illegal immigration issues in Michigan. I would compare this to someone from Utah telling a Californian what hours their bars should be open.

I don't care if they can speak english or not, I don't care how they look, smell, feel, taste, or sound all I care is if they have legal documentation to live and work here or not.

In the Central Valley of Northern California where I live they have greatly saturated our work force. The law of supply and demand(which isn't racist that I know of but I'm looking into it) dictates that with a larger labor pool the less demand there will be for them thus wages will come down, and have they.

Take your job as manager or whatever, say they allowed 100 illegal managers to compete over your job to see who would do it for the best and cheapest. Would that motivate you to keep on working just as hard!!! What about when you get demoted because an illegal does your job better for 15% less pay.

One example is cooking out here. Culinary school can cost upwards of 40 to 50 grand and graduates of those schools are making between 7.50 and 9 dollars an hour without benefits. Now it is even difficult to find a restaurant that is hiring because there is so much extra unaccounted cheap labor. Illegals come here and cook without ever attending culinary schools because they are mostly taught in the restaurant by other illegal workers. The restaurant owners love it because they know they are getting a bargain and solid workers.



[edit on 22-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

Originally posted by groingrinder
I do not think Bush's ranch is a working ranch. He mostly uses it for rest and recreation so I would call it a hacienda instead of a ranch. If there are any illegals there, they are probably hiding out in the back 40 and the President does not know they are there.

That is my understanding. By Texas standards Bush's ranch is way to small to be a ranch at all. I don't think there are any crops, cattle, or even horses there.