On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

Posted by defcon5: "I used to be a ramp supervisor for an airlines, I looked at the sky more then you have. Yes, the world has a curve to it, and yes, it’s more obvious over the water because you have a view unobstructed by surface features. Aircraft call into flight ops 20 minutes prior to landing, and you CAN go outside after the call and locate their lights under the right conditions, here on the coast."
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For forty years I have watched the skies to the tune of 3 or 4 hours a day. I am not a CASUAL OBSERVER. I doubt that as a RAMP supervisor you would look intently up in the sky for several hours of your shift. That would not be your job, would it?

[edit on 2-9-2007 by groingrinder]

Originally posted by zerotime
Also when you are out on the lake there are times when it looks like boats off in the horizon are flying. They look like they are hundreds of feet above the water. Again, this is some weird heat and water effect.

The same thing happens with lights. Lights off lake Erie bend and reflect in really strange ways. It is hard to explain but it can be super creepy at nighttime. It almost looks like ghosts or glowing fogs gliding around the Lake.

Airplanes also have strange effect that I cannot explain. Sometimes they look like they are flying low and then when they pass overhead they are actually very high in the sky.

Yeah I believe its called atmospheric lensing, but I don’t have time to look it up as I am too busy trying to defend myself here. It’s a good point though as I have seen pictures of cities hundreds of miles away being visible above the horizon due to this effect. Still I would not expect anything to sway hard core believers, nothing will due or explain anything, to them this is obviously a faith and no science will be heard.

Good post and point though...

Originally posted by defcon5
I have answered this multiple times already, go back and read. Check the pictures I posted.

pictures, smitures!

It would have been caught in the video, SOMETHING, anything.

I can show you pictures here all day, they mean squat here, at least to me.

AND answer the other questions i asked, where are the lights on the runway, in the neighborhood???

You seem to pick the arguements YOU THINK you have a good case to argue with, and ignore the better ones, IM WAITING.

Originally posted by groingrinder
For forty years I have watched the skies to the tune of 3 or 4 hours a day. I am not a CASUAL OBSERVER. I doubt that as a RAMP supervisor you would look intently up in the sky for your several hours of your shift. That would not be your job, would it?

You bet your tail you did, when you had flights on the ground and more coming in, you prayed for every second you could get. You knew the exact flight schedule of airport, and you could identify planes while they were in pattern so you could tell roughly which was the next one of yours coming in. You called that flight “on the ground” when it touched down, and you had your crew shift to that gate to flag it in, park it, ground service it, and get the baggage to the conveyor belt in 15 minutes.

Originally posted by whos_out_there

Originally posted by defcon5
I have answered this multiple times already, go back and read. Check the pictures I posted.

pictures, smitures!

Yeah, just like logic, shmogic....

Originally posted by whos_out_there
AND answer the other questions i asked, where are the lights on the runway, in the neighborhood???

The lights are obvious as a bright area on the left hand side of the screen in the night vision section after he zoomed the camera out. There is obviously a set of lights that can been seen flashing in that area as well, it looks to me like they are approach lights.

If those were indeed airplanes, then the navigational lights would be visible when the camera was zoomed in. When I am sitting on my front lawn and watch planes coming in and I see the landing lights come on, I do not see the navigational lights. However, when I grab my 7x50 binoculars the navigational lights show up quite clearly.

This is not something anyone has to take on faith. All you have to do is go to an airport or near an airport and open up your eyes and watch.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by groingrinder]

People are trying to explain this away with bluster and wind.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by groingrinder]

[edit on 2-9-2007 by groingrinder]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by whos_out_there
AND answer the other questions i asked, where are the lights on the runway, in the neighborhood???

The lights are obvious as a bright area on the left hand side of the screen in the night vision section after he zoomed the camera out. There is obviously a set of lights that can been seen flashing in that area as well, it looks to me like they are approach lights.

Why are the lights soo far away then IF these planes are coming in for a landing or have landed if thats the case?

Im talking about the lights the flash parallel to the runway in sequence. i don't see those, ONE light doesn't count for that OR even a couple for that matter those suckers stretch out. and there bright as hell too even if they flash for half a second each time.

Wow, after reading the thread title, I was indeed expecting "something huge," but what a disappointment. There is nothing strange about these lights. Do they do anything that a terrestrial craft, or for that matter, a regular airliner could not do? If you filmed lights zipping around or doing seemingly impossible aerial maneuvers I would be a bit more interested.

Originally posted by Postal76
Wow, after reading the thread title, I was indeed expecting "something huge," but what a disappointment. There is nothing strange about these lights. Do they do anything that a terrestrial craft, or for that matter, a regular airliner could not do? If you filmed lights zipping around or doing seemingly impossible aerial maneuvers I would be a bit more interested.

So when did we build airplanes that can stay in one spot in the air, silent on top of that?? Cause no one told me about this, IF thats the case then, this discussion is over, MYSTERY SOLVED thanks to scooby doo.

why are so many people ignoring the most concrete post in this thread?

zerotime said this

Having lived all of my life in Ohio and spending nearly all of my college years at the flats in Cleveland I can't believe people think these are real UFO's, but then again, it really doesn't shock me that much either. You can see these lights all day and all night over Lake Erie because they are airplanes.

but i guess the response will be "he must work for the government covering things up"

[edit on 9-2-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by groingrinder
If those were indeed airplanes, then the navigational lights would be visible when the camera was zoomed in.

I tire of this, it smacks of the wolfpack tactics used in the old masonry thereads…
Last time I am going to answer this question, right here…

Show me the Nav lights, rotating beacon, or strobes in this picture:::

Originally posted by defcon5
Here is a good example what am MD-80 landing config is and how bright the three lights are:

there are none.
Why?
Because an DC-9 varient has such bright landing lights it drowns them out…
Period…
End of that…
If you cannot figure it out then go learn something about aircraft…

Anyway I am done for the day.
Us super-secret agents are going to bed so we can go study sleep apnea all night.

Later on all.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by whos_out_there
AND for that matter if this was a plane WHERE are the blinking lights that are around the plane.

I have answered this multiple times already, go back and read. Check the pictures I posted.
[edit on 2/9/2007 by defcon5]

I am with you brother and thanks for the mention for the WATS thingy, much appreciated!

For you others, I am providing a link so that you can view normal and abnormal landing patterns by both commercial and military aircraft to you hearts content!

Here ya go, www.flightlevel350.com/

I hope the link works but if not just go to the site and you will see virtually every landing situation until you are bored which is exactly what this is...a routine situation that is boring to a practiced eye!

Again, I hate to be a bummer here as there are all kinds of great UFO vids but really, this is nothing out of this world here gang, it really isn't.

Again, peace to you all....Mondo

Originally posted by yeti101
why are so many people ignoring the most concrete post in this thread?

zerotime said this

Having lived all of my life in Ohio and spending nearly all of my college years at the flats in Cleveland I can't believe people think these are real UFO's, but then again, it really doesn't shock me that much either. You can see these lights all day and all night over Lake Erie because they are airplanes.

but i guess the response will be "he must work for the government covering things up"

I think he works for the GOVERNMENT HEHE

Originally posted by whos_out_there

Originally posted by Postal76
Wow, after reading the thread title, I was indeed expecting "something huge," but what a disappointment. There is nothing strange about these lights. Do they do anything that a terrestrial craft, or for that matter, a regular airliner could not do? If you filmed lights zipping around or doing seemingly impossible aerial maneuvers I would be a bit more interested.

So when did we build airplanes that can stay in one spot in the air, silent on top of that?? Cause no one told me about this, IF thats the case then, this discussion is over, MYSTERY SOLVED thanks to scooby doo.

Hmm. You've never lived near an airport, have you? I live near one, and I see lights in the sky all the time that aren't accompanied by sound. And the lights in the video clearly do not stay in one spot. Even if they did, there is a little thing called PERSPECTIVE, ie, if a light is moving towards towards you, it will appear to be standing still.

Look, I'm all for investigating UFOs, but this is a complete waste of time. There is nothing strange about these lights to warrant investigation. Don't let your biased imagination get ahead of you.

I'm also fairly convinced that there is no "UFO wave" as some seem to believe. I simply see an increase in sky watching and interest in UFOs, for whatever reason. People are getting way too excited about contrails, airplanes, and meteors.



[edit on 9-2-2007 by Postal76]

Sorry, just thought of a few more points. Anybody remember the Mexican UFO case where the pilots thought they saw hovering lights but in the end it turned out to be oil rig flares!?

Well, that's a great example of when you are in an aqueous environment at night, things are very difficult to determine altitude and may seem to float/hover.

Also, it did not happen, but if Frozen would have shot the whole sequence in night vision mode, the whole story may not even be here for us to talk about. I am not and do not claim anybody to be concocting a hoax at all..in fact I find it quite respectable that Frozen opens this situation to us all to discuss...no matter where you opinion may lie.

First things being first, let us use Occham's razor for this scenario and go from there...the most simple solution is usually the answer..and then deduce rather than induce. As posted so far, MD 80/90 landing lights drown out strobing navigational lights from a distance and on approach (Very true point here). Timing and bank angle of AC2 is correct for the airspeed necessary on approach. Altitude is relatively constant by AC1 and it is hard to determine camera steadiness anyway. We know what the craft seem to be doing, but what about the camera operator (zoom in/zoom out, switch to NV, focus, etc)? He is obviously excited hence the camera movement.
AC2 then aborts approach and changes airspeed and approach angle to get a new approach. No sound is there yet due to the distance away(again noted and this is true again). A very important point to be made here is that although some of you think jets are very loud, with the throttles in a pulled back position they are very difficult to hear at all even if you are next to it. This is a military tactic used while another aircraft creates a diversion, hence the term, "Sneak Pass".

Wheww, sorry but I thought some of this may be able to help some people in one direction or the other!!

Peace, Mondo

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Mondogiwa]

Originally posted by Postal76

Hmm. You've never lived near an airport, have you? I live near one, and I see lights in the sky all the time that aren't accompanied by sound. And the lights in the video clearly do not stay in one spot. Even if they did, there is a little thing called PERSPECTIVE, ie, if a light is moving towards towards you, it will appear to be standing still.

Look, I'm all for investigating UFOs, but this is a complete waste of time. There is nothing strange about these lights to warrant investigation. Don't let your biased imagination get ahead of you.

I'm also fairly convinced that there is no "UFO Flap" as some seem to believe. I simply see an increase in sky watching and interest in UFOs, for whatever reason. People are getting way too excited about contrails, airplanes, and meteors.

MMMMMM well lets see,

YES to living near an airport - JFK One of the Loudest and busiest Airports around.

and yes sometimes you cant hear them BUT, you have to remember that these planes are landing they are much closer to the ground, AND if thats the case, WHERE is the noise, The lights.

How do you explain the light leaving, I can understand the lights entering the shot, BUT what about the light leaving,

WHEN did they start putting lights that bright pointed towards the back of the plane?? If those are landing lights they shouldn't be so bright. if its going away from the camera.

And how many planes just take off and go straight?, most make a turn almost 1 minute after take off, maybe not all of most. AND if this is a airport where are all the other planes in the sky awaiting to land OR even better to take off? Its just too damn dark to think an airport is right there.

And im still curious where are ALL the runway lights at???? if this is a airport. This must be some low budget airport, ill make sure to avoid connecting flights there.

Lake Erie is practically an airport. I managed to find over 20 Airports directly around the perimiter of Lake Erie. The more I look at it, the more I have to believe it's planes. I saw a Video a while back of Chicago "hovering" UFO's which were obviously planes coming in to land at O'Hare Airport seen from afar. Landing lights can be seen from huge distances and head on they do indeed appear to be hovering, but they would appear to be static coming at you head on. There is also no noise because the planes are so far away.

Here's what I found. I beleive the first could be the airport where the planes are landing/takng off from, as one runway directly faces the lake. It could be any though really.

Buffalo Niagra International
Cleveland Hopkins International
Niagra Falls International
Erie International
Toledo Express
Detriot Metropolitan
Erie Ottowa Regional
Lorain County Regional
Chatauqua County -Dunkirk
Cuyahoga County
Medina Municipal
Lost Nation Municiple
St Thomas
Windsor
Burke Lakefront
Willow Run
Elyria
Casement
Sandusky
Metcalf Field
Concorde

It would really help if FrozenThought could give us his position so that we can correlate it with the position of the airports and flight paths.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Xeros]

whos_out_there, I still find it hard to believe that you live near an airport. These lights are completely consistent with planes on a landing approach. I have seen many planes with their landing lights on, and most of the time you can't see the actual airport or runway because they start their approach from quite a ways off. And no, you can't hear them either. The people fliming this might have been able to hear the planes if they had stopped their Cheech and Chong routine for a minute, or if the nearby water wasn't making so much noise.

defcon5,

You say this:

With flaps down they can fly pretty darn slowly, a good guess from me would be about 60-80 knots. But when they are flying straight at you for 30 or so miles that can take some time, and they look like they are hovering.

So let me get it straight. You are saying planes start their landing procedure at 30 miles out while flying at 60-80 knots. Who are you trying to kid man? Final approach is very short, certainly not 30 miles out, they don't hover as you say, furthermore jets are not quite, and when they land they land nearing stalling speed!

Only cessna's and other small prop planes land at 60-80 knots! Jets land between 140-160 knots with full flaps applied and landing gear down. By the way, this is landing speed not approach speed. Approach speeds are much higher and less flaps are used! I am not a pilot but I have been flying planes on Microsoft Flight Simulator for many years and I know the basics. My friend you don't even know the basics yet your here pretending to be some expert. SHAME ON YOU!!!

Originally posted by Postal76
whos_out_there, I still find it hard to believe that you live near an airport. These lights are completely consistent with planes on a landing approach. I have seen many planes with their landing lights on, and most of the time you can't see the actual airport or runway because they start their approach from quite a ways off. And no, you can't hear them either. The people fliming this might have been able to hear the planes if they had stopped their Cheech and Chong routine for a minute, or if the nearby water wasn't making so much noise.

Question, WHY is the airport so dark?? or the surrounding areas??

granted maybe they are comeing in from far, but eventually they have to land somewhere, and WHERE is that somewhere?? And where are those lights? are these airports located around deserts.

forget about noise, lights etc, etc.

JFK baby, Im sure i live near one lol.