Fighter Jet UFO Footage: The Real Deal

originally posted by: cosmania
"...Frankly, when I got back to the ship for my CVIC debrief, I asked them if there was a sub in the area doing cruise missile launch tests, since that seemed like the most plausible explanation I could come up with. I told OSD & the Times reporter that, too.

Hi cosmania,

I'm surprised that nobody replied to you as the story your buddy told you is very interesting and bring some insight to the event as we know it. But maybe this is the wrong thread as mainly everyone is at the moment focused on Delonge's drama...

Anyway, I've heard that a plausible explanation to what can be seen on the video could be an AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW), easily recognizable by it x-shaped tailfins plus the wings that are clearly visible at 40" of the second video, at the time it Flickr from TV to IR mode...

If you get the chance to talk tou your friend, could you please ask him what he think about this? Does that seems plausible to him?

Thanks!

a reply to: elevenaugust

I can ask, but even way back when I flew with him, the JSOW was in the inventory. I'm sure he could ID one. I'm sure the other guy in the cockpit could too. I'm pretty sure he deployed one before (we used to say "Pigs away" for the JSOW, ha)

I have read a few more quotes from these guys in the hornet, and they are keeping to their story that it had no wings, no protrusions and maneuvered differently than anything they've seen. And since the JSOW is a glide weapon, I don't think it could climb the way they described.

I gotta call him, but the holidays are delaying everything these days.

a reply to: cosmania

Thank you very much for this detailed and precise answer! Greatly appreciated

What is interesting in your friend's reply is the following "...a sub in the area doing cruise missile launch tests...", so I guess that, as familiar he seems to be with glide weapon, he could nonetheless be somewhat fooled by some sort of missile, right? Especially seen from a certain distance.

It was also said on the COI that during the 2004 USS Nimitz incident there was six others knowledgeable guys ("OK") referenced as being aware of the event. Can you ask your friend when you get the chance to call him if he consider himself as an "OK" guy?

Also, just to be clear about what we are talking about, he was surprised to see that the video included in the NY Times paper was not "his" video, but it's a little confusing as there are two different papers, one with the "GIMBALL" video and the 2004 Nimitz one (called "Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program") and the other with only the 2004 Nimitz video (called "2 navy Airmen and an Object That 'Accelerated Like Nothing I've Ever Seen'")

So if your friend was talking about the 2004 Nimitz incident, he couldn't miss the related video as it is present in both papers! Or maybe I misunderstood something and he was talking about the other video called "GIMBALL".

Could you ask him which video is the right one?

Many thanks again for your help!

I just want to say

I) This is a fascinating thread in terms of psychology and also in how the community tried to work through the facts as they were presented.
The OP overreacted but he was also deluged with hoax claims. It took over ten years for the truth to be revealed . It took 14 years for this video to be fully explained.

So my friends, what else is out there that is true that the generally think is a hoax (and I am as sceptical as they come)

II) Welcome back Isaac I hope you are a first point of call for whistleblowers

III) Thank you thank you thank you OP for having the balls to post the video at that time.
Your contribution to UFO history will not be forgotten!

IIII) If anybody can get a longer version of this tape I would appreciate it

originally posted by: cosmania
So, I'm generally very skeptical when it comes to these stories.

Hi Cosmania,

I've sent a message to you via the private messaging (U2U) system on ATS. I hope you'll get back to me.

If TheFinalTheory or Cometa revisit this old thread, I'd be grateful if they could contact me (either here or via a private message, or by email at [email protected]).

I'd still like the material I requested from them in 2007.

I've read every account here and there about this incident and come to the conclusion something happened but it's probably a classified test of some new weapon in a live setting

if you read carefully what happened here's what witnesses tell

-USS Princeton "seems" to have had strange radar returns from 2 weeks to few days prior to the incident
-The Nimitz battle group was in a training exercice off San Diego
-A witness on Princeton said the incident was General Quarters for 4 hours, meaning very serious
-Princeton vectored a first plane, Fravo's plane and his wingman to the spot of strange radar returns
-Princeton asks if everyone if they have live ammunition, negative
-the voice of the Princeton operator was alarmed
-the first plane arrives before Fravor, saw churning in the water like a sub or downed airliner, saw no Tic-Tac
-a E-2 had only a faint radar contact, the F-18 had no radar contacts, Princeton says it did
-Fravor saw the churning water, descending then he and his WSO saw a Tic-Tac
-Tic Tac engaged Fravor's plane in a circle, had a superior turn radius
-the wingman was higher saw the whole engagement
-Princeton vectors them to their CAP (position near the carrier) saying the tic-tac is now there
-Fravor and wingman goes to CAP, no radar contacts, no tic-tacs
-Fravor lands, debriefed, sure he has seen UFO
-Wingman debriefed, says they were probably in a live fire exercice, angry about that
-a 2nd group of F-18 takes off for regular training, Fravor told them about the "UFO"
-one plane of the 2nd group breaks off, trying to find the tic-tac at the location
-locks into something that looks like a tic-tac on FLIR, distance can not be tell, might be a very far away airliner
-planes land, copy of FLIR is made, Fravor said it is "similar" to what he experienced

my take on another post

so from my post of events above, it's hard to dismiss the sighting of the Tic-tac as loss of situational awareness or sun reflection on the canopy when two pilots and two WSO saw it.

but the videos of the 2nd flight is probably not related to the incident, everything on FLIR that is too far away will look like a Tic-tac, especially a very far away airliner, and the apparent very fast zap left at the end is only a normal veer of a plane that was steady and now turning left when it is very far and zoomed a lot on screen

so it's not the video the best evidence but the witness accounts

remember also the gimbal video of rotating camera artifact inside the camera (the gimbal system) is from 2015 on the east coast, a regular drone training, nothing to do with Nimitz 2004.


By the accounts and radar returns from the Princeton, one could say it is aliens doing maneuvers at the same spot of the ocean, launching and retrieving tic-tacs from a mothership in the sea with anti-radar technology except for the Princeton SPY-1 (luckily) and also too hi-tech for our low-tech human eyes to be able to disappear completely. They can zap and stop on a dime, but it seems at least one pilot mistake them for a human secret weapon. Yes, we could invoke the extraordinary claim of extraterrestrial life and be done with it. But that would be invoking an extraordinary claim like miracles or time portals.

If we stick to Earthly explanations, what is amissed here? It is the Princeton my friend, it is the Princeton. She always seems to see everything happening but the planes do not. How convenient.

First, the Princeton supposedly tracked those tic tacs zapping up to 80 000 feet and then to 50 feet for days without doing nothing about it, not alerting every carrier group or even sailing there to investigate..... She finally vectors planes IN TRAINING, getting sure they don't have live ammunition and when she does that, now it is a 4 hours General Quarters alert. And what about that Princeton female radar officer alarmed on the radio? Why alarmed? Are you scared the tic-tacs will destroy your ship very very very far away?

The planes see the water churning like a sub going under. On a subsequent debriefing many years later, they bring a sonar officer from the USS Louisville telling the pilots there were no subs, no sonar returns. Did you hear me pilots? there were no US Navy subs there, none whatsoever.

After the churning, a tic-tac appears, white eartlhy colours, it makes turns maneuvers with the plane to check his turn radius (if your turn radius is superior, you can shot down that plane or evade it), can not be seen on radar and disappears in a haze, only to reappear very conveniently on Princeton radar at their CAP point, because the test is over my pilot friends.

So, the Princeton is simply lying, for the sake of a new weapon test in a live setting. There was no radar returns for days, there was no tic-tac at the CAP, the radar officer was alarmed for no reason, they checked to see if the planes had ammunition so to not destroy their prototype accidentally, General Quarters was for 4 hours because it is a serious test and everything was classified with high security as a classified new weapon should be.

I can't prove that, but it explains a lot of strange things without invoking aliens. Remember one pilot saw it as an undisclosed new weapon test. Why should we believe more Fravor with its UFO explanation than another pilot with its weapon test explanation?

so what is this new weapon?

seems some kind of missile with very high stealth technology, obviously unmanned because it has no windows and can submit to extreme g-force, had probably no payload at that time but can hover, change axis, rotate to point at something and follow a plane in a turn. Stops also in a dime. Really hard not to think about anti-gravity technology but it seems still a little far fetch, maybe Lockheed Martin found a new way of propulsion around the Earth.

a reply to: antideirdre

maybe the tic tac isn't solid at all.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

in fact no, Fravor said it was solid, opaque, it would be easy to dismiss it as reflection or flares or illusion but there are at least 2 witness and maybe the plane above saw it too, unless everyone is lying, there was probably a real thing there able to capture radar pings

a reply to: antideirdre



in fact, yes


clouds are opaque and yet....


....they aren't solid.




milk is opaque....


.......yet its not a solid.



due to the EM cutoff frequency plasmas are opaque ...



and yet.....



....theyre not solid.

did you know clouds reflect radar....they're not solid


did you know water reflects radar. ...but....its....not solid.

cool thing about plasmas.... they can be used to absorb radar. they can redirect radar..... heck they can even be efficient radar reflectors.

another fun fact. you can make clouds of plasma out of thin air using.... lasers. you can even steer them around at will.

get this. I know it's crazy. but you can even make plasma clouds the same size of an aero plane.



but let's not speculate here **cough**


another question how did he determine it was solid? cause he couldn't see through it?

I can't see through motor oil....but it's not solid.

I can't see through toothpaste but its not solid.

I've got an itchy crotch cream I can't see through but its not solid.

my head hurts. to quote a true american hero "hallelujah! holy crap! where's the Tylenol."

he said SOLID AND OPAQUE, because it could be SOLID AND TRANSPARENT, but he said it was SOLID AND OPAQUE, what don't you understand about SOLID AND OPAQUE?

a plane is solid

a missile is solid

a drone is solid

a flying saucer is solid

plasma isn't solid

clouds are not solid

a reply to: antideirdre

how'd did he know it was solid? he saw a white tic tac shaped object.

I'm dropping not so subtle clues for you. but soot youreself.

a reply to: antideirdre

ah so much to learn about this subject i see.

again i ask though how did he know it was solid? because it had a shape, maneuvered and wasn't transparent to light?

I never brought up brick walls not sure why you're trying to insinuate that I did. i also did not discuss my beliefs on whether or not they're solid.

about glass. I know all about how a refractive index will make a solid object seemingly transparent to EM radiation. do you?

you're kinda all over the place with your thought process regarding material and it's opacity. just because it's opaque doesn't mean it's solid. just because it flies through the air and holds a shape while remaining opaque doesn't mean it's a solid, a space ship or a secret ufodronemissile. also last time i checked a tic tac has nice round obtuse edges. just like something else that's not a solid but opaque.

trying to help you out here.

So, I have been digging through some information about the Nimitz case, which (so far) is the most solid thing to come out of the whole TTSA thing.

And, I must say, I am getting more and more convinced that something actually happened and that the guy who came to ATS with this video was the real deal.

In my travels across the interwebs, I recently came across a reddit post from 2013 that covers the same incident from another perspective.

If you go through this thread on reddit, you can read his account for yourself. It dovetails pretty nicely with what we have learned from the Fravor interviews and the original figthersweep article back in 2015.

So we have, apart from TTSA, a whistle-blower coming to ATS in 2007 with this story, a guy sharing the information on Reddit in 2013 and the fightersweep article from 2015. So three pretty independent sources all describing a very coherent and plausible story of an incident.

This is quite a bit of collaboration, if you ask me. There are also various other sources out there who confirm the incident happened and that it was widely known (from replies to FOIA requests and other sources).

Interestingly, it also shows that the first place where the story leaked (complete with video) might very well have been ATS. There might be some lessons for all of us in that.

Note the following from the fightersweep article:

Somehow the tape made its way to YouTube. A few years after the incident, when first telling me the story, Dave pointed me to the link. It was unremarkable without the background information. But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen. For years I told the story to friends and showed them the video as punctuation.

Source

Also there is the question about the other documents in the acquired information. There was, if I recall correctly, a powerpoint presentation with a lot of (interestingly) sonar data. The USS Loiusville was part of the Nimitz strike group and in the are (according to fightersweep article above). Has anyone managed to get hold of this powerpoint presentation?

There are also some mentions about investigations from a three letter government agency which looked into it years later, but note that the reddit user says the information was collected by guys flown in in civilian clothes almost immediately.

I have to conclude for my own sake that this is probably a thread made by a genuine whistle-blower.

The alternative is an extremely elaborate hoax over many years.

Or the Tic-Tac video is the real deal released to ATS in 2007.

Cheers,
BT

originally posted by: beetee
Interestingly, it also shows that the first place where the story leaked (complete with video) might very well have been ATS. There might be some lessons for all of us in that.

True. It is often said that there's no way a "fringe" site like this would ever get real evidence released to it before it hits the major news outlets. Makes one wonder what other gems are hidden in the vast ATS archives.

a reply to: cosmania

Hi cosmania,

Apologies for the bump, but sometimes it think it worth revisiting the old, so we can marry up with the new.

What's interesting here, if we can take your correspondence at face value, is that he mentions the OSD (office for the Secretary of defence) contacted him to corrobate the story for the Times.

Looking at the wikileaks emails between podesta and TDL, he was asking podesta for help and if he knew anyone that could help him with their cause and mentiond leslie keane by name, but that he couldn't recall the paper she worked for..why he didn't Google it as he was clearly emailing is beyond me and. I have always thought the articles that the grey lady and others published were nothing but a PR release by TTSA...but I digress.

What's interesting here is the Zondo connections with OSD and AATIP, his rather dodgy resignation letter to the SOD and the subsequent denials by the Pentagon regarding the clips released.....ie "we didn't release anything" but if the communications between you an your friend, as I previously stated are true then there was help from the OSD..in fact it sounds like they initiated contact with your friend......

So did TDL get the assistance he asked for from podesta who in turn put him in connection with OSD or did Zondo use his connections ? This is all theory of course but the stars do align quite nicely...

David Frevor 2018:

DAVID: No, when the other guys came back with the video I copied those tapes and I put them in the safe. Where they ever ended up I do not know - I do not possess them, they were actually in a safe for safe keeping. Probably ... They obviously … I think someone found them because they weren’t marked on, they just had a PCL paper on it that said ‘for CO’. So whatever happened to them after that I don’t know.