Will our civilization ever be lost?

Hello,

This is my first post. I don't know if this has been discussed but I wanted to see what people think. I am fascinated with the possibility of lost civilizations and the technologies they may have advanced. While I believe that we have reached a pinnacle in recorded history due to our scientific advances and improved technology, could it all be lost with a global catastrophy like a flood, meteor or nuclear haulocaust? If it could be, is it not fair to say it could have happened before?

I am not saying that any of these disasters are impending or even likely, but the occurance of global disasters being possible is evident in mass extinctions that certain earth sciences have made us privvy to and references from the bible and other traditions throughout the world. It seems to me that genetically modern humans, while maybe not scientifically provable, have survived one or more global disasters based on these legends. There seems to be a memory of something in them. I do not believe that the bible and myths should be taken word for word as fact, but it seems that the global disasters referenced in them are plausible based on what we scientifically know today has happened in our unrecorded past. Could the legends also be based on what a previous or lost civilization scientifically knew? Or experienced?

As technology advances in civilizations does it leave more of a trace or less of a trace? Would anybody 5000 years from now know that we had computers if we were wiped out? Or electricity? I would think that if we lost electricity due to a calamity of global proportions, any surviving people would forget about computers quite quickly. If the survivors failed to establish a power-grid, within a couple generations, nobody would even be alive who would have a first-hand memory of computers or electricity. As technology improves, it seems the physical evidence of it becomes more and more transparent. For instance, the wireless technology we use in telecommunications. Where would the proof of that be for future archeologists if we were globally and suddenly wiped out?

I guess what I am trying to ask is that 'would we ever become written about as myth and legend in the future?' Would we leave behind any proof of our technological existence or would future, post-disaster generations think their current civilization was the pinnacle and we were stone age for lack of proof of our advances? Would they understand the true nature and purpose of a corroded laptop if found as an artifact 5000 years from now?

I know that I am being speculative on much of this post but I just wanted to get some feedback and insights on the views people have of possible past technologies and where we fit in to the mysterious origins or cycles of civilization. Any feedback or insights to the questions proposed would be appreciated.

Thanks

Originally posted by Lafave
While I believe that we have reached a pinnacle in recorded history due to our scientific advances and improved technology, could it all be lost with a global catastrophy like a flood, meteor or nuclear haulocaust?

Short of a complete meltdown of the Earth's crust, the answer is "no."

It seems to me that genetically modern humans, while maybe not scientifically provable, have survived one or more global disasters based on these legends. There seems to be a memory of something in them. I do not believe that the bible and myths should be taken word for word as fact, but it seems that the global disasters referenced in them are plausible based on what we scientifically know today has happened in our unrecorded past.

You're viewing folklore with a modern knowledge of the world.

To people and societies that don't have our modern views (the roaming clans of Bushmen of the Kalahari, for instance), a large local disaster would be interpreted as a disaster that covered the whole world... for it covered THEIR whole known world.

Genetics can tell when there's been a bottleneck in the gene pool (the number of people who are alive are reduced to a few thousand and only their children survive.) There is some evidence of a bottleneck 40,000 years ago though there is no global disaster at that time period:
news.bbc.co.uk...

As technology advances in civilizations does it leave more of a trace or less of a trace?

More of a trace. We need to mine metals which leaves tailings, heaps of minerals in one area, we use fertilizer and cultivation (changes soil), build structures (changes density of soil) and leave behind all kinds of waste including soot (which can be seen on a global scale) and so forth. Synthetic materials may not be biodegradeable and some structures are built to be very durable and long-lasting.

Would anybody 5000 years from now know that we had computers if we were wiped out? Or electricity? I would think that if we lost electricity due to a calamity of global proportions, any surviving people would forget about computers quite quickly.

Remmber that your understanding doesn't represent the scope of human knowledge. I know how to build simple batteries and as long as books or other records existed, people like me could reestablish technology and power. Groups of tech heads tend to flock together... we seek each other out. While the rest might be banging away at each other with guns and slingshots, we'd be off in some corner figuring out how to get forges running and refining running. I'd be salvaging LEDs to light my workshops. I can breadboard simple circuits (in spite of being afflicted with "girl cooties.")

And we're the type who teach our kids and get them to collaborate with us. So our children would go onward.

Where would the proof of that be for future archeologists if we were globally and suddenly wiped out?

Don't forget that our cities are built on top of older cities and houses. How many old buildings have you seen razed to build a new shopping center or housing complex? The old bits are still there under the new house, so archaeologists would still find the layers of the cities. They would also find our precursor technology, and our garbage dumps would be an absolute treasure trove of EVERYTHING we've thrown away for the past century and more.

it scares some people to think about this, we are the smartest civilization ever on this earth, because we had to be

never mind other civilizations valued spiritualism higher than we do, we measure all societys based on weapons avaiable and the cars it's people drive (and other measuring sticks of materialism)

we see spiritualism as some myth some whisper that is based on nonsense

as we become more spiritual we can learn that we are created creators we all have some of the creator "within" and we are so powerful and the world we perceive changes when we change our filters from within, but allowing people to know how powerful they truly our is dangerous to the PTB, so this is not something taught in schools and even though this will bring you to higher levels of understanding and acceptance often a pre requisite to become a more spiritual advanced individual these empowering beleifs are not encouraged in any mainstream media.
if people knew that civilizations were more spiritually advanced in the past and also more technically advanced and yet for some reason these people's destroyed each other or met there doom in the face of some meteor or climate change calamity what would the powers that be tell us about it? NOTHING they would be off, secretly building bases in space so they could move and hang out on when the # hits the fan, or underground bases and cities. they would have a huge black budget they would spend like there is no tomorrow, and they would believe the people can't handle the truth without panicking and maybe spending more time with there families and less time trying to accumulate wealth and material posessions

[edit on 9-2-2007 by cpdaman]

Civilizations destroy themselves on a regular basis, imo. Either man does it or some phenomenom destroys us periodically. The Mayans knew about this and left quite a bit of information.
All will be lost but man will re-invent the wheel, electricity, etc. Amazing how that works.
One thing is for sure, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.
:shk:

the mayans destroyed themselves ?
wow history in the making

It would take something very significant to wipe out all we have now. Looking at some of the oddities from the ancient world, I wonder why we aren't further along than we are now.

If we store our knowlege somewhere safe then we could rebuild from that knowlege, in case something huge did happen.

Troy

Hi There,

I guess what I am trying to ask is that 'would we ever become written about as myth and legend in the future?'

In order for your question to be answered either way, it would be necessary that something of humanity survives whatever catastrophe befalls it...natural or man-made. Of course, it doesn't necessarily require a sudden impact upon humanity's infrastructure to wipe it out, it could slowly and simply decay, that is, following the current path we seem to be on, for whatever reasons or none.

I do not think that our technological capacity is what will ultimately stave off humanity's extinction, for our technology is simply a 'tool' to be used for all our benefit, or for some of our benefit, or none at all. The true litmus test is that of how civilised we are, how moral and ethical we can be, for from the heart comes the manner by which we spend 'reason's' currency. If a catastrophe of significant magnitude were to occur contemporeously, I should hold little hope for even remnants of humanity surviving long after the catastrophe had passed. It's plausible that some will survive, but for how long...is anybody's guess. If humanity would hope to survive an ELE (extinction-level-event), it would need to do so as one, for the greater the number that survives, the better the chances are of the species continuing, through having the human resources to carry out the necessary task of rebuilding the shattered infrastructures around the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today, for example, because aid was able to come from outside the affected area. If only pockets of humanity survived, they might well be too far from each other to offer any assistance. There are a lot of variables that we cannot compute so we cannot rightly estimate the outcome.

However, should humanity be wholly wiped out by some means, sudden or slow, it would certainly leave behind signs to some visiting (off-world?) intelligence that a conscious and sentient species once existed on the planet, simply by walking amongst the ruins of our civilisation.

Here's something to ponder...will future archaeologists be able to "read" our 21st century documents. Most record keeping these days is in a totally electronic format. Will people 5000 years from now (or even 500 years) know how to access this info??

For example, everything that has ever been said on ATS will probably be lost forever in 500 years, unless someone has been printing it out every day and putting it in a book, which I doubt.

Even though our present society is probably the largest keeper of records this world has ever seen, i believe those records to be fleeting, and actually less will be known about us in 5000 years than we know about the Egyptians today.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

I guess you could leave a computer system and a way to power it, totally sealed and protected from the environment, that could read the information. Create a battery system that is "inactive" untill water and an acid is introduced. Instructions for the computer's use would have to be written in all known languages, and all documents would have to be written in all known languages.

We should have these things archived, yes, but lets plan on continuing our lives.

Troy

According to this:




We are on borrowed time.

Not a good Omen.


[edit on 14-2-2007 by dgtempe]