US IS NOT A GREAT COUNTRY

We are just trying to offer third world countries better ways of government that will be compatible with the US and the rest of the world. Democracy seems to be the best kind of government that can be offered, so of course we are going to offer it. The big gap between America and the rest of the world is that we are more technologically advanced than most of the world; we have a great Intelligence system and a powerful military. This is why we are most hated, if the UK was like us they would be the most hated country as well.

Bluegirl have you ever heard of the Battle at El Morro.

This being in Puerto Rico?

Originally posted by Xaos
"force" them to stop hating us, to accept democracy? that goes against the very rules of democracy itself

no No NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This does not go against democracy at ALL!

Should we just have told the Nazis, to quiet down? Should we just bend over and let dictators have their misguided people shove bananas up our A$s?

NAY! Facisim goes against humanity, their people are blind to reality, because they are not democratic. This is the case with almost all of middle eastern islam.

We must go in there, force them to be democratic, after 50 years or so, like in Germany, their limited minds will begin to see what a free world is, and no longer hate america. They will understand that they can boycott the less favorable of American products, and not have to blow up planes and buildings to do it.

Democracy, must be fought for, by eradicating its enemies, not by turning the other cheek. The soviet union, would never have fallen, if not for Gorbachev, do not confuse that fact, it may seem in the end Democracy wins over all. But it does not. Look at Rome. In fact it is quite the opposite.

Democracy, most easily falls to facisim, dictatorship, and cruelty. Democracy, in order to live, must have patriotism for its blood, fire for its soul and steel for its body. Without these, Democracy withers, and facisim replaces the lack of those things, with force, and control, and conquest. Nazis were not patriotic, they were brainwashed. Which is why in the end, they would tell soldiers "liberating" them, Ich keine Nazi, or whatever. "I am not a Nazi". Try getting them to say that in 1938.

Now like-wise, try getting an American (who truly understands what it is to be american) to say that, ever. You never will, America will fade away quietly to people who deny its greatness, or will be utterly destroyed by an oppressive enemy. But never will it surrender, and so easily forget, what it has. We might need to be occupied some day to understand what it is to be free, but when the people realize what they sacrificed, they'll throw stones, to get it back.


Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 17-12-2002 by FreeMason]

bluegrl89,

I'm no fan of the States, nor of any nation for that matter - but if you are going to make an argument for or against anything on this board, you're going to have to use proper English. Try to start with sentences then move to paragraphs.

Otherwise, we might think you're a foreign agent trying to sew dissidence among the posters and lurkers on this board... And you can bet than any board with the name "abovetopsecret.com" is monitored (if not controlled) by the CIA... or worse...

I am starting to experience delusions of grandeur and persecution and have lost my train of thought...somebody help me...my, what pretty pink Hippos you have there...

-�-

I don't know Savonarola, before you start trying to post against or for any nation, maybe you should start with being on topic. And then work your way up to references, and then finally, praising me for my analogy of the American spirit! heheh....

*is giving you a hard time right here, off I go!!!*

Sincerely,
no signature

Originally posted by FreeMason
...But let's go to the OTHER side of things, no need to bicker about what we have done to certain groups. Let's see why US is a GREAT Country.

Reason 1: We don't have to follow what the "party" says.
Reason 2: We can practice our own religions, any way we want.
Reason 3: We have Due process and various other legal methods that save us from governmental tyranny.

As in most democratic countries as well...

Reason 4: We have the ability to bare arms, there may be a lot of Anti-amendment 2 people out there, but everyone of them don't look at the facts of what happens to a nation without arms....it turns into a DICTATORSHIP.

Sorry? I heard well? As a Spanish, I can't buy arms without special permition. And we are not living in a *dictatorship*, nor it will in the near future. The same goes for almost any European country, most former USSR countries, a few Africans, more than a few other American countries,...

Reason 5: We aren't communist, sorry echelon, but I've seen what governmental Communism does...if you want to live in a city-state society be my guest

but other-wise, communism is the anti-freedom of the world.
Reason 6: We ARE Free, it may not feel like it at times. But Americans are the ONLY people ON EARTH EVER!!!! TO have fought themselves to ensure that there was just an OUNCE of more Freedom, in a huge POOL of Freedom. America is the only nation that can claim that, other nations have only fought themselves to GAIN Freedom but never to Improve it!

Cuba insurrected as the 'freedom' provided to them was in fact slavery. Now Cuba has a dictatorship, granted, but that is not against the fact Cuban didn't want to be the US recreational and sexual park. Being only a bunch of USA owned casinos and prostibules was not giving them a sense of being 'free'.

...And I've ranted enough....point is, we have WAY more reasons to be GOOD, than to be BAD, if we'd stop whimpering over the bad, we could truly do things that the world would never forget. Like we have before.

Ok, well, but be vigilant and try to make the US government do more better things than bad things. I'm starting to think that the war against terrorism (which is good) is going too far (wich is bad).

P.S.: I'm not from USA (i hate the word American: SouthAmericans are Americans too), nor I'm willing to be. I'm proud of being Spanish. I meant: please, really, please..., don't think anyone in Earth wants to be from the USA, cause mostly we don't... :p

[Edited on 2002-12-19 by MakodFilu]

U.S. IS NOT A GREAT COUNTRY

This has became an interesting post, and I feel much of what has been said on both sides has merit. However I would like to take a few minutes to respond to the original post, THEN respond to some of the other points.

A) When we discuss the United States history of dealing with the Countries in the Wester Hemisphere (North, Central and South America and the Islands thereabouts) We will find that there are Two (2) Era's to examine, the first is the Colonial Period, this era extends from the early settlements along the Atlantic coastline until the "realighment" of the Canadian-U.S. border in the late 1800's. Most of this expansion was by Treatys with the European Countries such as England (the 13 original
Colonies), France (Louisiana Purchase), Spain (Florida &
S.West, & Texas after independance) and Russia, (Alaska)
The second is the Modern Period, this era extends from the late 1800's (1893-1898) until the present. During this time we fought a war with Spain, and rightly or wrongly we (U.S.) was the winner. As a conseqence of that war (The Spanish-American War) Spain ceded their territorial claims to Cuba and lessor islands in the Carribean and the Phillipines in the Pacific Ocean to the U.S. And in what is the only truly "imperialistic" conquest by the U.S. ,
a "coup-d-etat" by members of the U.S. government, certain wealthy Americans and certain religious groups overthrough the Native Hawaiian Queen, permitting an alliance and later acquisition of the Hawaiian Islands.
It should be noted that Puerto Rico has CHOSEN many times in a free vote, to remain a territory of the U.S., And the Phillipines was granted full independance in either 1947 or 1948, choosing as their Independance Day, July 4th, same as ours. I believe that a review of these facts will tend to support that We (U.S.) are a great country and that although We (U.S.) have faults We (U.S.) offer the best chance for Freedom and Liberty in the whole world. It was my intention to address two additional "points" concerning this Post, but due to my work schedule I will be unable to do so at the present. I will try to so at a later date.

Theodore L. Gieseking

Going back to FM's idea that we as a democracy need to force other countries to be democratic. If we do this as we have in the past we only sew corruption, democracy is a great institution but it must be decided upon by the masses who will be affected not a foreign government who intervenes on the sake of so called "justice." Democracy is a process and it will come about when ready, and cannot be forced upon people before they are ready.

XAOS

Originally posted by MakodFilu

Sorry? I heard well? As a Spanish, I can't buy arms without special permition. And we are not living in a *dictatorship*, nor it will in the near future. The same goes for almost any European country, most former USSR countries, a few Africans, more than a few other American countries,...

Sure. But what will happen if we are living under a One World Order ( only one gov ), and that personnal arms are banned ? The things will be very different. Because you'll not have a country where to run and hide if this OWO is a dictatorship !

Supporting the NRA, it's supporting the democracy and telling to potential dictatorships : " hey man, you'll have to count with me and my guns if you try to set a dictatorship in my country ". Also, it's the right to defend your live !

XAOS is Germany Corrupt as you say all the democracies we've established are? No? Thank you for playing "I know what I'm talking about here".

Sincerely,
no signature

The usa is a wonderfull country

But it's gouvernment sux bigtime

Originally posted by B
The usa is a wonderfull country

But it's gouvernment sux bigtime

Yeah, sure.

That's not like China, North-Korea, Cuba or even Irak who are all so democratics and freedom fighters nations.

For as far as I care North Korea & Cuba don't even have to money to buy a needle to scratch theyr arses!!! They don't have the money to make bombs and stuff like that! Don't believe everything what the media says and use your mind! There's no money in those country's and for as far as I know about China they don't form a threat either, not everyone is your enemy, damn you Americans are so parano�d!

I can assure you that on every continent all people just want peace. It just this capitalism that #s everything up! We really have to start thinking in a global & different way. What you'll have with all your money when there's no nature left? No food? No water? No air?

Tell me?

B, you really have to do some reading. You seem to be incredibly naive.

Naive? I think its being just plane ignorant. You think if N. Korea was so insignificant the US would be trying so hard to dissuade them from further developing their NUCLEAR WEAPONS program which according to B shouldn't even exist since N. Korea doesn't have money to buy needles for "arse" scratching!!

Originally posted by B

1) For as far as I care North Korea & Cuba don't even have to money to buy a needle to scratch theyr arses!!! They don't have the money to make bombs and stuff like that!

2) Don't believe everything what the media says and use your mind! There's no money in those country's and for as far as I know about China they don't form a threat either, not everyone is your enemy, damn you Americans are so parano�d!

3) I can assure you that on every continent all people just want peace. It just this capitalism that #s everything up! We really have to start thinking in a global & different way. What you'll have with all your money when there's no nature left? No food? No water? No air?

Tell me?

Ok, I tellya.

1) Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4

2) Sorry B, but if someone is brainwashed, it's YOU.
The EU medias will not show you what you can see here.

3) You are still brainwashed by the former soviet propaganda ( " The capitalists are all evils, but socialism/communism will save you " ).

When I see what you write and how you think , we can see all that these propagandists did a great job, they can be proud of what they did. Europe is completely brainwashed and don't see who are their real friends and their real ennemies. You do a " values inversion ".

But that's typical from the left. Don't be stupid and think. Your policy makers are actually betraying you and your country. Cuz since the end of the cold war, they don't know what they have to do. So, they find another " target ". WAKE UP B !

" You think that you know, but in fact, you don't know. "
But don't worry, one day, I'll tell you why I wrote this phrase.

KEEP WALKING!!!!!!!!!!!
MORON WALKER BLACK LABEL!!

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Ok, I tellya.

1) Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4

OK this part I'm not gonna discus anymore I'm open for suggestion so I'll read da links

2) Sorry B, but if someone is brainwashed, it's YOU.
The EU medias will not show you what you can see here.

That's naieve of you to say! I don't watch the television anymore! Why not I don't trust the media anymore. The only news I get is from Indymedia or Whatreallyhappened.com. And why do you think the US media won't hide things from you?????????????

3) You are still brainwashed by the former soviet propaganda ( " The capitalists are all evils, but socialism/communism will save you " ).

I'm definitly not saying that the world should be socialist!! I'm saying that our capitalist world has to start thinking a bit more in a socialist way!! We (Europe & America) are rich, you can't denie that! But only we are rich and on the back of Africa & Asia. We have to help each outher out else all those other countrys will get more & more jalous and we'll have more and more situations like 9-11 trust me!

Oh and I've recently bought a Tshirt with CCCP on it and the Hammer and eeeerm "Sikkel". My grandfather almost had a hearthattack when he saw me. He asked me:"Are you red or something?" I've replyed:"Yes and No, I'm wearing this tshirt as a protest against todays systems. Todays system should be hybrid with communism".

ME GRANDFATHER THREW MY OUT So you can shove that Sovjet propaganda theory where the sun doesn't shine lol

When I see what you write and how you think , we can see all that these propagandists did a great job, they can be proud of what they did. Europe is completely brainwashed and don't see who are their real friends and their real ennemies. You do a " values inversion ".

Once again do you really believe you guys aren't brainwashed? Believe me when I went to School they've thaught us a lot about America and it was always America did this for us they did that for us! It's only recently since I've got the internet and I've started digging that my visions about America started! I've never had something against America! No definitly not I know that you guys are just people like us but your gouvernement IS PLAYING WITH FIRE!!!!

But that's typical from the left. Don't be stupid and think. Your policy makers are actually betraying you and your country. Cuz since the end of the cold war, they don't know what they have to do. So, they find another " target ". WAKE UP B !

Find another target? Wasn't that your job? I mean > USSR, North Korea, Vietnam (wich was definitly a war for drugs) and the list goes on and on...

" You think that you know, but in fact, you don't know.

"
But don't worry, one day, I'll tell you why I wrote this phrase.

I don't think I know. I know what I know and I see what I see! What I see is that in this world only the white race, and I am also white (sometimes even ashamed to be white), doesn't have hunger! We are rich the others aren't (or only a few). And I think that this phrase : " You think that you know, but in fact, you don't know.

"
But don't worry, one day, I'll tell you why I wrote this phrase.

also counts for you buddy!

I know I don't know everything and I know my opinions are the oppisite of yours but think about what I've just wrote!!!

I'M OPEN FOR DISCUSSION I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE TOO

[Edited on 15-1-2003 by B]

What I see is that in this world only the white race, and I am also white, doesn't have hunger! We are rich the others aren't

Ok, so Bosnians, Serbians, Macedonians, Mestizos in South America, etc are not white??? In my humble opinion, when you have blond hair and blue eyes you are definitely WHITE!!! And those afore mentioned people are some of the most poverty stricken, destitute individuals in the world!

Reality check buddy.

Originally posted by psypher

What I see is that in this world only the white race, and I am also white, doesn't have hunger! We are rich the others aren't

Ok, so Bosnians, Serbians, Macedonians, Mestizos in South America, etc are not white??? In my humble opinion, when you have blond hair and blue eyes you are definitely WHITE!!! And those afore mentioned people are some of the most poverty stricken, destitute individuals in the world!

Reality check buddy.

I'd rather live in one of those countrys than the rest of the world. FACE IT MONEY IS IN HAND OF ONLY A FEW! that is not good! And I give up in this topic