WAR WILL NEVER GO AWAY!

Don't worry folks, Saph is the kind of person who wouldn't fight unless a tank rolled through her backyard.

The kind of person who would not have supported going into Germany to end the murder of millions of people by the Nazis.

It's a sad line of thinking, but I have to say that you are not completely off base.

We could have curtailed terror, not by war, but by pulling out of the middle east altogether, and that INCLUDES Isreal. We have no business funding terror when we are trying to fight it.

I also agree about the Bush keeping is trap shut idea. here's a hint boys... STOP ANNOUNCING MILITARY OPERATIONS.

What I do NOT agree with, it that intel and quant conversation can fix everything. Sometime people just are not like us, and hate us to such a degree that there is no getting them to like us or NOT want to kill us.

And Saph, no worries about Bible references, it's one of the bloody books around. Even God knows that war is a part of humanity no matter how much we want to domesticate ourselves. Sometimes it is a neccisary undertaking.

Jesus taught us to love the sinner and hate the sin, but no where did he EVER teach that when people are being abused and murdered, should we give the killers a big hug and let them do what they please.

Come on... God made us after all.

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by mystra
I think humankind is being brainwashed into thinking this, KrazyIvan.


War is over, if we want it!!!

I think its you who got brainwashed to believe the war can go away...

LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF MAN KIND!!!

exactly. name a peroiod of 100 years when there was nothing but total peace in the world. can you do it?

Originally posted by KrazyIvan



exactly. name a peroiod of 100 years when there was nothing but total peace in the world. can you do it?

i can name a period of 100 years with ONLY war!!!

Originally posted by FunkTSkunk
He's right, you know.

We are in aperfect balance of 'good' vs. 'evil'. What we believe to be good will always be at war with what we believe to be evil and thus the world remains in balnce. Notice that no side (well, good and evil are really flimsy terms, may I say. What one considers good could be evil to anpother but everyone HAS a sense of good and evil which is why I use them) has ever won. Thus, wars will continue to pop up at any time or anyp place for petty reasons. But with this being said then we may as well choose a side and fight for it. It's all part of nature. Some will notice this problem and be pacifists, choosing no side what so ever. Others will be strong headed and continue to fight for whatever side it is. It's just nature. It's a type of Taoist belife. But, as always, we conyinue to fight for what we believe in because of hope. Plain and simple.

in order to get rid of war you have to remove good AND evil. good fights evil and evil fights good. this has gone on since the beginning of recorded and i'm pretty sure BEFORE that as well. so the solution is simple (on paper that is), get rid of good and evil. just like in order for people to stop being poor we have to get rid of all rich people. in other words....BALANCE everything out. but how we do that is the hard part.

we are always viewing things as good or evil, right or wrong and then act accordingly to what we view as evil and good, right and wrong. the definitions for this vary from culture to culture and that is also another cause of wars, a clash of cultural differences....perfect example, israelis and paelstinians. both feel the other side is evil/wrong so who is right? both! and yet they are both wrong. in their mind they are right BUT in the mind of the other person they are wrong in their thinking.

we try to rationalize everything in this world and want to categorize everything. we are so egotistical in our intelligence we feel only WE know whats right and wrong for ourselves, other people, the planet, the universe and other animals and what we "know" cannot be refuted no matter how evidence is presented before us that contradicts us. we all do this but most of us dont realize it. i know i do it and as much as i try to not do it/keep it from happening, i goof and slip. i'm a human and imperfect and i dont pretend to be anything other than who i have claimed to be.

War will never go away... true.

but the war on drugs will never go away either.


It's my body, it's my right to put what I want inside of it.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Don't worry folks, Saph is the kind of person who wouldn't fight unless a tank rolled through her backyard.

The kind of person who would not have supported going into Germany to end the murder of millions of people by the Nazis.

It's a sad line of thinking, but I have to say that you are not completely off base.

And Saph, no worries about Bible references, it's one of the bloody books around. Even God knows that war is a part of humanity no matter how much we want to domesticate ourselves. Sometimes it is a neccisary undertaking.

Jesus taught us to love the sinner and hate the sin, but no where did he EVER teach that when people are being abused and murdered, should we give the killers a big hug and let them do what they please.
Come on... God made us after all.

I take issue with these two things.

one...I wasn't even alive during World War II, but you are right, juding by my views now, I would have stood on the side of those against the war. Whether you like it or not--if the majority belived the way I do there would've never been a Hitler in power. Believing in violence is what creates the Hitlers and the Saddams. Believing that war is an option is what gives power to murderers. Believing that violence saves and is a viable way to resolve disputes is what created terrorist.

two...I don't want to get in a debate with you over the teachings of Jesus because that is so far off topic. But, I will say that if "love the sinner--hate the sin" is all you picked up from Jesus then you have a lot of reading and studying to do. He also said, "bless are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God"...

It would do us all well to read that whole chapter...one of my favorites. Matthew chapter 5. Jesus was most definately anti-war.


[Edited on 18-12-2003 by Saphronia]

I think we are having two different conversations.

I am telling you what is real

You are wishing upon a star because there is no way for the world to be the way you discribe. It is impossible. Period.

There are some things you can change, and others you can't.

If you want to try to hold back the ocean with your pinky, be my guest.

Nothing is impossible, Jethro. I could believe the way you do, and just give into insanity, war is hell but hell is necessary,...instead I'll stay sane. To me you are the one asleep. Because, just as we decided war could be just--we can decide war is unjust. We make the rules. We don't follow some natural code in our genes. We have free will. It is a choice to support death over life, murder over compromise. You are chosing death when you support war.

All violence is wrong.
You can't call the terrorist wrong for 9-11 and then turn around and call us right for Afghanistan and Iraq...what about the innocent people that die because of what we support...how is that right? The only way to justify it is to say--its better they die, so I can live. That's repulsive and vulgar, and sadly the thinking of so many in this country.

But what you are neglecting to understand is that in many ways I AGREE with you.

I hate war, and have an understanding of it greater than your due to my experience in the infantry in the Marine Corps.

There are many things I would wish for, and the end of war would be one of them.

Unfortunatly, that is not the nature of man dictated by the fall of man. We have not changed in the last 10,000 years.

We are ones who have to fight to stay alive no matter the time. We are not domesticated due to our free thought. And there are billions of people in the world.

Also, power and greed are not things that can be bred out of taught against. That is why Marx was the greatest optimist with an impossible goal. If we were able to reach bliss here on Earth, then what would be the point of heaven. Our whole world is struggle. Even if we could rid the world of that kind of thought, the devil would still take his due.

Originally posted by Saphronia
Nothing is impossible.

nothing is impossible? you sure 'bout that?



total peace is impossible. as long as arabs blow themselves up in the name of allah, peace is impossible. as long as iran and north korea have nuclear programs, peace is impossible. as long as man exists, PEACE IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Jethro: I don't believe peace is something that is beyond our capability because we were built to struggle. We could have peace tomorrow, and there still would be struggle. Life is a struggle without illegal mass murders. Every time we shrug at war, or call it something that is necessary we commit evil--we become someones devil.

KI: This isn't about terrorist or the war on terror--it's about war in general which includes the terrorist holy war against the west. All of it is wrong. Just because they choose to work outside of what is just doesn't me we have to jump in the pit with them. There is a way to capture and try terrorist that brings justice to the victims and prevents future victims. But, our president is more interested in theory of purifying violence than he is in the need for peace. Are we more civilized, really? We are no less blood thirsty and revenge driven. The only thing that separtes the good from evil in any war is perception. I don't think we can make that claim that we are good, because killing is evil. There are no good guys or bad guys, just murders.

I would like to see a world where we all were nice to each other and we all held hands and skipped through the daisies chasing butterflies through the land of milk and honey ........

But till then I think I'll keep my gun loaded just in case

Originally posted by Saphronia
Jethro: I don't believe peace is something that is beyond our capability because we were built to struggle. We could have peace tomorrow, and there still would be struggle. Life is a struggle without illegal mass murders. Every time we shrug at war, or call it something that is necessary we commit evil--we become someones devil.

KI: This isn't about terrorist or the war on terror--it's about war in general which includes the terrorist holy war against the west. All of it is wrong. Just because they choose to work outside of what is just doesn't me we have to jump in the pit with them. There is a way to capture and try terrorist that brings justice to the victims and prevents future victims. But, our president is more interested in theory of purifying violence than he is in the need for peace. Are we more civilized, really? We are no less blood thirsty and revenge driven. The only thing that separtes the good from evil in any war is perception. I don't think we can make that claim that we are good, because killing is evil. There are no good guys or bad guys, just murders.

Allied veterans of WWII are murders? they defeated the most hate filled power in europe and not to mention liberated from the forementioned power! hell if i am a soldier and i am in a conflict and there is sombody trying to kill me, im am going to do my best to kill before he kills me. thats war. its all about survivl. its a sad thing but wont go away.

"war can never be avoided, only postoned to the advantage of others." -unknown

I don't think that war will ever go away either. We should just try not to get into conflicts.

Actually, I have spoken to many German WWII solders, although they are old now, and almost none of them were hatefilled warmongers. They were nice.

The ones who were filled with hate (the ones I met), had changed.

The problem is, is that sometimes it is WORTH fighting for.

I glad you don't think so, but if someone attacks us and takes us over, subsigates us, I hope that you might change your mind.

Jethro: Don't think I'm a complete pacifist. I would fight right along side of you if someone tried to invade this country. The wars we fight now are not about invading armies, but more about men that make their living off of death and destruction. Still, I will admit there is a time to fight.

In a letter home from WWII Bush 41 told his family that war was unjust, and he prayed that his sons never lived to see a battle field. He made sure his sons never did, but he had no problem sending other's children into war. I suppose he forgot what it was like by the time Gulf War 1 rolled around.

In this society some men make their living on death and destruction and give no thought to what humanity mean. Instead the focus on the vulgar and they bring all of us along for the ride. These folk are ill and twisted. Since we let these type of people run the world and our country then it's no wonder we're still marching off to war every other decade for their interest. There will never be peace until the people believe it's possible and force the controllers to make it happen.

Guns are necessary as a means of defense from those that seek destruction. But, we seek it just as much as we defend against it. There were alternatives even though our Presidents tell us there aren't any. Bush 43 made a choice and now there are over 10,000 dead Iraqi citizens and nearly 500 dead american citizens and no one is even counting those that have been maimed.

I agree, I think we should concentrate more on true defense than violence to seek peace.

Let's pull out of all the BS we've been getting into.

war will never go away unless people chose another form of society and chose STO instead of STS, humans are very warlike beings, they distorted the message for self gain...evil

The only way peace on earth could exist is if someone or something forced it on us. All humans have individual wants and needs. Give them these needs, and these needs will change. We are a competitive species. Evolution stops for none.Worldwide peace is worldwide slavery.