Is ethanol really a good idea?

Originally posted by sp00ner
Also, I saw someone say somthing about bactieria or something, to eat stuff, and make the Ethanol? Not to be rude, but you are aware of what Ethanol is, correct?

Ethanol is alcohol. You are aware that alcohol is routinely made by fermentation. In beer and wine the production of alcohol is made by the action of YEAST which eats the sugars and produces alcohol. The Idea of utilizing bacteria to produce ethanol from bagasse (plant fibers) is not anything unusual.

In Brasil they ferment sugar cane to produce ethanol with a great deal of success. Many cars in Brasil run on Ethanol and "Flex Fuel" vehicles are now becoming very popular there. In a Flex fuel car you can fill up on a variety of fuels. Gas, Alcohol, or a mix of the two. In addition, many cars in Brasil run on Liquefied Natural Gas. Brasil has a very progressive automobile fuel policy that many nations are looking at to copy.

US switch to ethanol pulls food from MEXICO's poor

Tortilla Protest

Personally I am a believer, and user, of WVO biodiesel. I am also a believer of pulling a 5000 lb trailer load with a 80 hp 1981 diesel toyota hilux. If my truck ain't pullin an important load... I ain't drivin'

I get 35+ mpg at load weight.

lag lug, lag lug, lag lug...

Sri Oracle

^-----Ouch... I get 35mpg and about 320hp from my Saturn, 40 on the highway.... I do all the ECM programming myself... and there's nothing like 320hp from a 2L 4-cyl motor.

Correct as far as Ethanol goes, it's using bacteria/YEAST to general the alcohol, so you're already having something 'eat' and 'emit'.

Here's another story citing a reputable source "Consumer Reports" that will again release an issue addressing the problems with ethanol in the US.

www.npnweb.com...

To reiterate: I am not against alternative fuels, I am not against reducing greenhouse gas emissions, or the emissons of any air pollutants for that matter. I'm not against reducing our dependance on foreign oil. I'm not against conservation. I simply think ethanol is a bad idea.

I think ethanol is a great idea. I try to drink a few ounces of it every day.

Seriously, now that I've had a couple of rum and cokes, Regenmacher is exactly right that ethanol is being used as a replacement for methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether.(MTBE) Like MTBE, ethanol is besides other things an oxygenate which makes gasoline burn more efficiently in order to reduce air pollution. Ethanol in gasoline is not a new concept by any means. I remember it being available 25 years ago as a product called gasohol that no one would buy. Apparently, there were some issues with the ethanol attacking certain engine gaskets. Much research was done on alternative fuels in the 1970s when our government and our scientists fully agreed that the Earth was running out of crude oil. They were wrong.

The use of MTBE is yet another case of bad scientific "consensus". They so desired to reduce air pollution that they have polluted our water with......MTBE. I am very close to this pollution because I test water and soil for gasoline contamination every day.

I just don't understand how anyone can trust government and scientificc "consensus" to come up with the best answers for environmental problems after this latest example of their meddling. Many of you trust the same people who gave you this mess to deal with the global warming business. I don't.





[edit on 4/16/2007 by TheAvenger]

Here is a site that describes several methods of making ethanol.

Renewable fuels

We have already seen the price of corn go up 10% over the winter.

from what I have read it is far more practical to make it from sugar cane or even sugar beets than corn... the reason being that to make it from corn you have to convert starches to sugars first and that takes a lot of energy... when you start with sugars the process is much simpler.

How fortuitous that the peer-reviewed on-line Journal, Evironmental Science and Technology, published by the American Chemical Society has an article that questions the use of Ethanol in/as fuel:

Environmental Science and Technology

The abstract from the reseach report the article is about:

Effects of Ethanol (E85) versus Gasoline Vehicles on Cancer and Mortality in the United States

Mark Z. Jacobson*

Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford University, Stanford, California 94305-4020

Received for review August 31, 2006

Revised manuscript received February 19, 2007

Accepted March 14, 2007

Abstract:

Ethanol use in vehicle fuel is increasing worldwide, but the potential cancer risk and ozone-related health consequences of a large-scale conversion from gasoline to ethanol have not been examined. Here, a nested global-through-urban air pollution/weather forecast model is combined with high-resolution future emission inventories, population data, and health effects data to examine the effect of converting from gasoline to E85 on cancer, mortality, and hospitalization in the United States as a whole and Los Angeles in particular. Under the base-case emission scenario derived, which accounted for projected improvements in gasoline and E85 vehicle emission controls, it was found that E85 (85% ethanol fuel, 15% gasoline) may increase ozone-related mortality, hospitalization, and asthma by about 9% in Los Angeles and 4% in the United States as a whole relative to 100% gasoline. Ozone increases in Los Angeles and the northeast were partially offset by decreases in the southeast. E85 also increased peroxyacetyl nitrate (PAN) in the U.S. but was estimated to cause little change in cancer risk. Due to its ozone effects, future E85 may be a greater overall public health risk than gasoline. However, because of the uncertainty in future emission regulations, it can be concluded with confidence only that E85 is unlikely to improve air quality over future gasoline vehicles. Unburned ethanol emissions from E85 may result in a global-scale source of acetaldehyde larger than that of direct emissions.


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[edit on 4/18/2007 by TheAvenger]

The Law of Unintended Consequences rears its ugly head....

We can expect higher prices for not only corn but also soy, wheat, and most significantly...BARLEY!!! Everyone does realize that barley is the main ingredient (after water) for BEER right????

Arrgghhhh.

news.tradingcharts.com...

Seriously though, if this ethanol thing continues to gain speed, our transportation energy needs will no longer be dictated only by middle east politics but also weather patterns, planting failures, and farmers planting whims.......Just great.

Another Revoltin' Development.....

From a recent column by Tom Morgan

Revoltin' Development
As comedian Jimmy Durante used to say "Wot a revoltin’ development dis is!"

The greens and lots of others call for more ethanol, more ethanol. They have pressured politicians to grant subsidies to companies that produce it. And to pay people to buy cars that run on ethanol.

Meanwhile, distillers are building ethanol plants. They offer top dollar to farmers to grow and deliver the corn to feed the ethanol plants. And farmers have dramatically increased their corn plantings.

Wunnerful, wunnerful? Nope. Revoltin’.

First, the prices for corn have shot upward. Forcing impoverished Mexicans to pay more for their most basic food. (Not to mention our foods.) Second, we are burning huge quantities of fuel to produce the corn. Huge. So our net gains are small. Third, other crop prices have also shot upward. Because farmers are growing less of those crops. Because they replaced them with corn plantings. Life is complicated, ain’t it?

Tom Morgan's Money Talk

I cannot believe there are so many folks who can't see what a Rube Goldberg this ethanol idea is when it's being promoted as a "green" practice. As a political or strategic practice to reduce dependency on oil imports I can understand the push for ethanol, but as a solution to environmental concerns of the day...what a joke. The corn farmers and their lobbyists are laughing all the way to the bank.

Me...I bought alot of ADM last year.