Illegal Immigration. It IS a "Race Thing".

I will start this topic by admitting that I am a racist. I am so upset about the condition of our country and what illegal immigrants are getting away with nowadays. I am scared for my children's welfare and the lack of opportunities they may have due to the escalation of this incidence.

I WOULD take up arms and defend my border had I the chance. I WOULD die for the AMERICANS, you and yours. I have served in the armed forces, but for whose benefit ?

After a statement like that I must ask YOU the same question. So many of us are aware of the illegal immigration invasion, the onslaught of bodies taking up more space and resources in an already adequacy deficient nation. You offer your opinions. You vent your anger. So many of us state: "But I am NOT a racist though, not a race issue". Face it, it is.

The country of Mexico is responsible. The Mexican's are of different skin tone, different language, different culture. I have many Mexican-American friends whose families came here legally and those famillies built legacies of hard working, tax paying, sucessful American citizens. I've even served with many who put their own lives on the line for this country.

The thing is, whenever the issue of Illegal Immigration comes to mind via news broadcasts or other medium (including ATS) what takes place in our minds subconciously is an anger, and a picture, and a nationality, and either verbally or mentally, a derogatory statement " *damn* Mexicans !!"

I believe in black and white (no pun intended) and that a thought like that IS harboring a racist mentality. It's like saying I hate cats but don't mind petting them.

There are other races that come here illegally- Asian, Arabic, European, etc. Fortunately for us more than few contribute back to society and become something, passing it on. It is the Mexican that comes to mind.

What if Mexico was a self sufficient country with no citizens crossing our borders, what if it were Canada ? What if instead of brown skinned, spanish speaking individuals it were primarily caucasians ? Would our opinions and views be any different? I'm sure we'd be screaming "Damn Canadians !!" but looking at them as entities of that country not as stereotyped individuals.

The problem of Illegal Immigration YES, is a major problem and an issue that needs to be addressed and resolved immediately. We have no more fingers left to plug the dike and the water keeps coming.

I would from an objective point of view state that I am NOT a racist, at least I don't consider myself one. Does anybody feel the same confusion, or do we sugar coat it and declare this as a non-racist platform ?

[edit on 23-1-2007 by _DISAVOWED_]
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Edited spelling in title

[edit on 23/1/07 by masqua]

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[edit on 4-2-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Illegal Imigration IS NOT a racial issue whatsoever.
It is a case of people of many nations who have decided that the laws of the US that control legal entrance into the US are incosequetial and are to be ignored.
Yes, there is an issue with the border between the US and Mexico, and yes, the Mexican goverment has taken steps to "assist" it's citizens to cross the border to the north but the influx of illegal immigrants via the US Mexican border is not the sole "honor" of any hispanics.
Might I remind you, just after 9/11, there were 8 men who were caught crossing the border from Mexico. Thier nationality / ethnicity.... middle eastern.
Please do not feed the LULAC and other groups beleifs that anyone that is against the influx of illegals into the US are racist.

Reply appreciated. No I do not support LULAC and am not implying anything more then the question in simplicity. As a native Californian it is MEXICO, Mexicans who are the source and the burden.

We say "I AM NOT A RACIST" but behind closed doors there are more a Californian who rants and raves, goes into tirades about the "Mexicans". I believe that this adds fuel to the fire i.e. LULAC and other organizations. I mean we just had a "walk out" in Los Angeles not too long ago where the majority of the Mexican population protested by marching downtown, skipping work.

My issue is with the Mexican government and our own. The question is does that spur racist thoughts against Mexicans because it is Mexico? and if so then am I really Racist?

[edit on 23-1-2007 by _DISAVOWED_]

What if instead of brown skinned, spanish speaking individuals it were primarily caucasians ? Would our opinions and views be any different?

Well, in England, we have a lot of White-Europeans from Eastern Europe coming over here to live.

It seems they are subject to the same sort of prejudices people have against those of a different colour.

In my opinion, most people that hold them particular views see Eastern-Europeans as the ones 'taking our jobs', etc rather than blacks or asians.

So, as I'm only telling you my view on what it's like around here (East London, England), that does not necessarily answer your question, if it's even possible.

I'm sure you views and opinions would be different, just not that drastic.

It's funny, but you are only a citizen of the USA because your ancestors did exactly what you're accusing the new immigrants of doing.

Except your ancestors killed the natives and stole their land. I don't see the Mexicans doing that...

What goes around comes around, eh?

It's is racism, mixed with a huge dose of paranoia. In fact it's pretty common for a population who's country is in social turmoil to blame other races and immigrants.

The Mexicans were in fact here long before you came around and created laws to keep them from migrating on your stolen land.

Originally posted by ANOK
It's funny, but you are only a citizen of the USA because your ancestors did exactly what you're accusing the new immigrants of doing.

and no one would be coming here now if our WHITE ancestors hadnt built the US into the leader of the world that it is today.


The Mexicans were in fact here long before you came around and created laws to keep them from migrating on your stolen land.

uh.... excuse me, what you term "mexicans" were NOT here long before us. they have been here just as long. Remember that a mexican is a member of a mixture of SPANIARD and what was the indians (Aztecs, Inca, etc.)

Originally posted by _DISAVOWED_
I will start this topic by admitting that I am a racist.

Admitting it is the first step.

I have many Mexican-American friends whose families came here legally and those famillies built legacies of hard working, tax paying, sucessful American citizens.

I submit that if it were a race issue for you, you would also feel rage at the legal immigrants that you call your friends...

what takes place in our minds subconciously is an anger, and a picture, and a nationality, and either verbally or mentally, a derogatory statement " *damn* Mexicans !!"

Speak for yourself. This is not what takes place in my mind.

I'm sure we'd be screaming "Damn Canadians !!" but looking at them as entities of that country not as stereotyped individuals.

That's how I see all illegal immigrants. People of ANY country who come here illegally.

I would from an objective point of view state that I am NOT a racist, at least I don't consider myself one.

Check out the first sentence of your post. Are you or aren't you?

Maybe it's because, living in the southwest, I am surrounded by legal immigrants and Mexican decendants who are Americans (born here) that I don't have the same outlook on this issue as you do, but I am very against illegal immigration, yet I DO NOT consider it a racist issue.

It's not about race, it's about getting away with breaking the law, the fact that I, as an American, am not allowed to break the law without paying some consequence and the fact that many illegal immigrants are using our social programs when legal Americans need them.

[edit on 4-2-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

ANOK,
yep it sure is racist yep yep
just take a look at the latest ICE round up

The sweep netted illegal immigrants from 14 countries in all, including Mexico, Honduras, Ukraine, India, Japan, Poland and Trinidad.

Immigration Sweep Yields 761 Arrests

aw shucks all us anti- illegal immigrant sure are anti-hispanic ayep

Originally posted by ANOK
It's funny, but you are only a citizen of the USA because your ancestors did exactly what you're accusing the new immigrants of doing.

and no one would be coming here now if our WHITE ancestors hadnt built the US into the leader of the world that it is today.

The Mexicans were in fact here long before you came around and created laws to keep them from migrating on your stolen land.

uh.... excuse me, what you term "mexicans" were NOT here long before us. they have been here just as long. Remember that a mexican is a member of a mixture of SPANIARD and what was the indians (Aztecs, Inca, etc.)

[edit on 23-1-2007 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
and no one would be coming here now if our WHITE ancestors hadnt built the US into the leader of the world that it is today.

And Chinese coolies of course, as well as slave labour (granted, pretty much every civilisation exploited slave labour), also, take into account some massive errors of judgement by other nations (first world war is a good example) that resulted in the increased power of the US.

Immigration (illegal or not) is not a "race" issue..... it's an economic one. If India was the richest and most cosmopolitan society in the world you can bet that caucasians as well as everyone else would be desperate to sneak in and get a job.

Well I am Spanish and to tell you the truth I have work with immigrants due to the problems with lack of education and the lack of knowledge of how the laws work in the US when it comes to children.

But I am angry of what is happening in many small towns in the south not only they are starting to be majority in some of the towns but also they get targeted for been minorities.

At the same time the raise of criminal activities have also risen.

So we are walking a thin line trying to be polite and condescend, here, I really think that none of the politicians wants to do anything about the migration problem.

And we have a problem a big mass problem.

This is not about a race. "Hispanics" can claim what ever they want, but they are not a separate race. They are generally a combination of Spanish (caucasian) and American Indian peoples. To claim they are a separate race is to also claim that chinese-americans, japanese-americans, mullatos, etc., etc. are all races separate from the original races involved in the mix - which no one ever claims.

So, that leaves this whole illegal immigration issue as a political issue, because it involves people from one country engaging in illegal acts in another country (U.S.).

I believe I will chime in on this one.
For starters here is what I do know. Most of those who are in the country illegally, came here, because in their eyes, this is the land of opportunity. Most, even working for the US min wage, make more in a month, than they do back at home. They come here searching for opportunities. On the job issue, here is what I also know. Now I once knew a person, one of many, who at the time did not have a job. He was looking for the right job. He was going to be evicted, no money, no rent, and had car problems. The solution was to get a job. Funny the McDonalds down the street was hiring. When mentioned, he stated, I won't flip a hamburger. This is an attitude that many Americans take, when it comes to what would be considrered menual labor. And on the side of business, they are in it to make money. So here you have a choice, a person who does not want the job, and will do a bad on if forced, or a person who wants the job and works cheap. The other part, why many say it is a race issue and look to the mexican americans, is because they are standing up to be counted, their voiced heard. Where many tend to find this issue and take the stand of illegale immigrants are wrong, is that if you looked at all of the demonstrations that took place, many did not wave the American flag, or desire to be a part of the society, rather wave the Mexican flag, and demand rights. The bottom line is that they view America as a means for an income and America views them as a cheap source of labor. There is no easy solution. Other note is that it is estimated that the next immigration wave will be coming from China.

Just my thoughts.

One must remember primarily:
1: Hispanics and others from the world come here illegaly because corporations offer to hire them and even BRING them here in some cases. So be a slave and get fed and maybe get enough food to feed your children or die homeless and from hunger and watch your children die from pestilance... big choice...
2: Corporations hire them, and as long as they hire them, they will keep comming.
3: The Mexican government is a puppet for the NWO elites and patsies to the corporations, so of course they help in getting the new slave labor over the boarder.
4: Groups keep spitting on Hispanics and demozing them so of course we have a sudden surge in La Raza and Aztlan type groups. Just look at how the Nazi's came about, people beat up on you, you find others like yourself and rally, only what you rally around is what makes the differance: racism and genocide vs. just trying to get a fair chance in life.
5: NAFTA wiped out A LOT of Mexican farmers due to the massive exports of corn which their diet was based around
6: Corporations use the government to use eminent domain to take land and drain it of resources or use it to create factories. Thus they flee and have nowhere to go.
7: They have almost no jobs, same as here, however they all see this "America, land of oppourtunity!" sign and logically they come flocking.
8: When you step on a snake it will bite back... So how to you stop the snake from biting you? Just think that one over while I say this: Hispanics fight back and form gangs because of being downtrodden, it is a common case in the USA on the whole amoungst poor white and black neighborhoods. You get stepped on all the time by cops, government, corporations so you steal, murder, so on because you have no dignity left, no honor, no respect to be had, your just a hobo to them and always will be, a bug that needs squashed if it gets in the way.
9: Race is only for those who try and generalize, they generalize about an entire race because it is easy. It is a case seen around the world in racism problems: one white, one black/brown and they target color first because it is most apparent to the eye. However down below, they have a heart, stomach, kidneys and so on, their phisiology is the same (as if it matteres) however they will draw on color FIRST. How to overcome this: treat them how you would like to be treated, if they refuse to treat you the same, then tough luck for them, they lost a possible friend who could help them.
10: To solve the problem is to solve the economy, to solve the problem is to solve the education problem, to solve the problem is to also solve the government problem.
11: Uneducated people have a tendancy to make things worse, so educate people, cut out $100 billion from the military (they "lose" more than that a year, so take out the average amount they "lose") and start an education program like Cuba had, welcome people from around the world to learn how to read and write English how to speak it. Teach them math, science, AGRICULTURE! Do like Cuba did and train people to be doctors so they can go abroad or go home and start a practice and help people. When you have no options in life you become desperate to have them, and this leads to unwise decisions.
12: Create homes, we produce a heck of a lot of food even if we got rid of the wasteful corporate farms and went back to family farms, shucks as someone said: they PAID US farmes to NOT produce food they had so much, and it was all 100% sustainable! So make homes, get them housing if they want to stay, teach them to speak English, read and write English (all the while solving economic factors in their own country) and have them stand in line like everyone else. Only this time with dignity and pride. The sooner they have a home the sooner we can tax them, and the sooner we get the factories back the sooner we have more jobs and more income that is on a living wage scale.
13: Dignity comes from two places: one job, two living standard. There is little to no dignity to be had flipping burgers for the rest of your life and be a slave, also since it pays so little why bother? You will have to get five of those jobs to cut it and that is if you are lucky. People like being able to know they are not in a dead end situation like most of the American population and the bulk of the world population is in. They like knowing they have one or two jobs, have some spare time, and do not have to kill themselves from working to keep their 6ft by 6ft apartment, car, and then pay their taxes, water and eletric bill, along with everything else in life from getting food, gas and clothing to getting medical treatment when you need it. I am in a position where if I get injured now I will have to work for the next 60 years to pay it off, and I do NOT flip burgers. That is why I have a med kit and an emergency war surgey NATO issue booklet on how to stich up wounds and also the needle and catgut for doing so. I might get an infection and die but that beats the HECK out of the alternative.
14: Push someone and they push back, the NWO elites have pushed people for over 50 years and will not stop, so people push back. You push a Hispanic, they push back, NAFTA pushed them, so they are pushing back right now in the attempt of getting jobs to survive.
15: Waving a flag when your Mexican is fine, waving a Chinese flag when your Chinese is fine, waving a Japanese flag when your Japanese is fine, waving an American flag when your American is fine. You have your flag on someone elses soil when their government stomps on you, you are asking your home nation for help (that is the logic I see in it).


Keep demozing people and just watch how bad things get, you will be facing another war like WW2 only this time in the USA. Treat each other with dignity and respect and you might just get somewhere. Give them an option that allows them to go home and further themselves and you just might get someplace. Stop the elite from stomping on them and you might just get someplace. Get the picture?

There are plenty of White illegal immigrants all the time from Europe, Australia, and The former Eastern Block.

You just never hear about it.

Granted the Mexicans are coming over in larger droves, and in quicker times. A lot of that has to due with them being so close.

How many Europeans, Russians would have done the same thing if we were linked geologically

[edit on 4-2-2007 by Royal76]

Originally posted by ANOK
It's funny, but you are only a citizen of the USA because your ancestors did exactly what you're accusing the new immigrants of doing.

My great grandparents went through Ellis island to become an america citizen. They were leaving Germany to be free of Hitlers persecution, and to start a new life. I do not see mexicans doing the same thing.

The problem with the illegal aliens is that they dont really care to blend into the american society. They dont care about our laws, politics, or our countrys origin. That is the problem I have with them. Im far from a racist as well.

Except your ancestors killed the natives and stole their land. I don't see the Mexicans doing that...

Whats the difference between what your ppl did to the mayans?

It's is racism, mixed with a huge dose of paranoia. In fact it's pretty common for a population who's country is in social turmoil to blame other races and immigrants.

I think thats just your opinion. Nothing more. After reading the drivel that you posted below, Ive come to the conlcusion that THAT is exactly why we americans have a hard time appreciating you ppl. you give the small but good minority a bad name.

The Mexicans were in fact here long before you came around and created laws to keep them from migrating on your stolen land.

Then they need to give the mayans back their land... Oh wait. They cant. They killed them off!

Your very hypocritical. The only person here coming off as racist is you...

[edit on 082828p://5502pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 092828p://0902pm by semperfoo]
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[edit on 4-2-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by _DISAVOWED_
I will start this topic by admitting that I am a racist. I am so upset about the condition of our country...

Now if that ain't the irony of the decade. :shk:

A racist upset about the condition of our country! I would suggest and look deep within yourself and try, very hard, to lower that sentiment to the smallest possible level. It can do nothing but help in all regards. Especially with the condition of our country!

The extremes on both sides want to make this a racial issue, sure. But it isn't. I think we kinda already established that in a few threads floating around the Social Issues forum. Not sure everyone got it, but we sure tried.

If you believe in sovereignty of borders as they now stand, and the current laws regarding the matter, it is a legal issue. If you believe we all ought to go back to the stone age and chase each other around with spears over who gets the greenest grass, then maybe you ought to join one of the popular movements to retake Aztlan. That might put you in desert though, with not much green grass.

ANOK


What have you to say about the mexican gangs going around LA killing innocent African Americans regardless if they are gang affiliated or not?


Racist Mexican Gangs “Ethnic Cleansing” Blacks In L.A.
controlcongress.com...

Thats truly sad and despicable.

What do you expect us americans to say when you ppl are disrespecting our flag and our ppl like the above link depicts??



Ya see what we're seeing? If anything the illegal aliens responsible for this are just feeding and breeding the racist ppl in this country.


[edit on 092828p://2202pm by semperfoo]

Gangs feed off of hate, racists feed off of racists. In the immigrant case, racist American beat up Mexicans in fear, or are racist to them, so the racist Mexican gangs gain numbers. Then they go after Americans, which feeds racist Americans. They feed off of each other, so long as one side provides reason for the other to hate things will just spiral out of control.
How do you fight racism? By not being one and most of all: EDUCATION!


As for the gangs trying to wipe out the black population, first it was Neo-Nazis and KKK doing this, now they face hostile Mexicans, the sooner people see this in the news and realize that not all Mexicans are insane, and that there are certain ones who cause such problems the sooner we can solve it. The fact the government lets this all slide thows they WANT the USA to be torn to shreads, that way they can control it better, the more chaos the better right now. Besides, if they let these gangs take control in certain areas, then do their martial law, they will just drop enough bombs on those neighborhoods to wipe out the population a couple hundred times over. They use things to their benefit, the Mexicans are being used and do not realize it.
Solve the LA problem by: National guard, use the media for what it is supposed to be used for, put the gangs in the spotlight for who they are: mass murderers and TRUE terrorists. Then wipe them all out, no mercy.
Edit: added above

[edit on 4-2-2007 by Vekar]