State Prison Inmates Outliving People on Outside

It looks like prisiners are getting better care and living longer than people on the outside.Its always nice to know my tax dollars are paying for rapists and murders to live longer.



This is so ironic.We put these people in prison to pay for crimes and they are getting treated better than people on the outside. And to boot they are actually living longer??
What are your thoughts on this one?

That is one of the worst written articles I have ever seen (no offense to the OP, I am referring to fox). First off, the numbers are WAY skewed. There is no way in hell that you can compare 100,000 people living across the US to 100,000 people in the prison system. Of course people outside of prison will die at a higher rate as they are exposed to a much higher rate of things that could kill you. People in prison are in a controlled environment free from things like car accidents, drunk drivers, plane crashes, etc. Granted there are riots, fights and other dangers all their own in prison, however it is obsurd to draw connections between the two and assume it is because of a "cushy lifestyle". Not everyone in prison is a hardened criminal like a rapist or a murderer - many are in there for drug charges. If we didn't pack our prisons full of the people committing lesser crimes (such as minor drug offences) then we might see different results from our prisons - this is a debate for another thread.
I love how they single out blacks in the article too.

Logan

I think you need to take into account the gangs and gang related murders inside before you say that there are factors outsided that kill you.

My problem with this is that inmates get more healthcare benefits then law abiding citizens on the outside. What happens when the middle american construction worker gets hurt? He has no insurance so he must either suffer or pay outragous ER fees. What about the single mom, working min wage job who doesn't qualify for benefits who wakes up one morning with a toothache. She has no means what so ever to go to a dentist to fix the problem. Now, look at the criminals in the prison systems, yes even those for drug charges are still criminals, drugs are illegal. They get shanked for calling some guy a nasty name, they get immediate medical attention free of charge. The next inmate gets an awful toothache, immediate dental services are provided with antibiotics. Does it seem right to you that healthcare benefits are more available to criminals then law abiding citizens?

and your tax dollars are paying the 1 guard to protect every 100 inmates

Racerzeke, forgive me, but what are you meaning by this. I know they do need more guards on duty, I'm just trying to figure out what side of the topic you are leaning toward.

Originally posted by LogansRun
That is one of the worst written articles I have ever seen[...] Of course people outside of prison will die at a higher rate as they are exposed to a much higher rate of things that could kill you.

Well, then there you go. The article is essentially correct. Its also true that people serving in afghanistan and iraq have a lower mortality rate than a similar cohort living in the US.

I love how they single out blacks in the article too.

They single out blacks because it is blacks that are living longer when they are in prison.
If anything, this is an arguement for the bizzare and deep reaching racism in society. That the social system is so stacked against them, that they are literally dying at a completely unnatural rate from it.

www.foxnews.com...
For black inmates, the rate was 57 percent lower than among the overall black population

That is an absolutely staggering figure, that is far beyond prison being more controlled than 'normal society' and not dying from car accidents or work related accidents, etc.

89 percent [of deaths] — were due to medical reasons [...] But the death rate among men was 72 percent higher than among women.

That is a fascinatingly bizzare statistic. Why should men, especially given that the vast majority are dying from medical conditions, have a death rate 72 percent higher than women? Especially given that everyone is getting moderately acceptable medical care (at a minimum)???
That doesn't actually make sense.

im mad at how the prison system is handled... and i think there would actually be less prison killings if they werent so overcrowded and under patrolled

I work at a prison (as a nurse) and I can tell you that the inmates have better health care and more access to it than I do. They put in "sick call" requests (equivalent to making a doctor's appt.) for the stupidest things that if they were on the outside and had to pay for would not consider going to a doctor.

Some of the staff have (only half-) jokingly said that when they get to the point where they need a nursing home, they'll commit some petty crime that will assure them a prison sentence because they'll be better taken care of than IN a nursing home. It's true.

The food is not 4 star restaurant quality but it's basically what I eat at home. They have access to exercise equipment, library (and computers), regular movies and NEVER ENDING, NEVER COST A DIME HEALTHCARE. They even have a canteen (sort of a mini mart) where they can buy soups, snacks, supplies. It's like a 7-11 and they can keep their stuff in their cells. If they behave themselves, they can gain "levels" (1-4) in privileges. They have work camps and earn spending money outside the facility (not minimum wage but all they have to spend money on is the canteen).

Our facility is more like a college campus than a prison and it's considered medium security. They have a rodeo, concerts, access to musical instruments, religious services of all religions (wiccan, rastafarianism, etc.), special diets based on personal preference.

About the only drawback (other than not being able to walk out the front gate) is the tiny cells.

Our yard is about 50% child molesters so, contrary to popular belief about what happens to child molesters in prison, our prisoners roam about with impunity.

There are very few fights and the guards are severely limited in how they can break up those fights. If we have someone in "lockdown" (sort of jail within prison) and they refuse to take their medications or are misbehaving horribly even in lockdown, a special meeting has to be called in order to allow an officer to go into their cell for any reason. The paperwork is horrendous and a video camera has to be used to show that no one's rights were violated. They have a lot of time to think up ways to amuse themselves and they usually come up with ways to overwork the severely understaffed personnel.

These people aren't in there for singing too loudly in the choir. Even the "harmless" drug criminals are pretty dysfunctional/antisocial/emotionally immature/manipulative, etc. They can be pleasant, sociable, even charming and endearing but, without exception, every one of them is conniving to gain an advantage.

I could go on but you get the idea. I treat them all cordially but at a professional distance. I used to feel sorry for some of them but if you let down your guard for a minute, they'll take advantage of your kindness and get you in trouble with it. I've seen it happen more than once to well-meaning guards, nurses, counselors, doctors, etc. We had a doctor who let one of the inmates use the phone (strictly against policy) to call his granddaughter. He thought it would be therapeutic for the inmate. The inmate repaid his kindness by calling his granddaughter-who also happened to be his sexual victim. Boy! did we hear about that one!

I agree that we can treat inmates as human beings but I try to keep in mind that most of them are defective human beings and WILL not accept any form of rehabilitation.

Originally posted by racerzeke
im mad at how the prison system is handled... and i think there would actually be less prison killings if they werent so overcrowded and under patrolled

The point here though is that, especially if you are black, you have a longer life expectancy if you get sent to prison than if you don't.

So it can't even be claimed that the prison system care is substandard.

whitewave
Our yard is about 50% child molesters so, contrary to popular belief about what happens to child molesters in prison, our prisoners roam about with impunity.

I've allways had the feeling that the idea of prisoners knocking off child molesters was a bunch of bunk. Afterall, the prisoners are criminals, they're scum in the first place, what do they care about other scum?

\I agree that we can treat inmates as human beings but I try to keep in mind that most of them are defective human beings and WILL not accept any form of rehabilitation.

Thats really irrelevant though. If the state is going to lock them up, then, logically, it has to provide all their healthcare, and it certainly can't provide inadequate health care, EVEN IF the general public isn't getting adequate healthcare.

I agree they shouldn't recieve inadequate healthcare. I also feel that as convicted criminals you lose certain privelages. I know that they can't vote among other things, so why should healthcare be any different. Maybe they should be forced to work off some of the cost of the treatment or forced to suffer MINOR injuries and discomfort like the rest of society. Not recieve better treatment for breaking laws.

So should I go rob a store just to get some dental care????
How about free room and board along with a hot meal????

One - child molesters used to get worse treatment at the hands of other inmates. That has changed somewhat. Don't know why, it just has.

Two - if all you want out of life is a roof over your head, regular meals, and medical care, then by all means, get yourself sent to prison. Me, I like my freedom more than any of those things, so I'll stay on the outside, thank you very much.

Three - all that said, I still find it ludicrous that we can't get affordable medical care in this country. It's a shameful situation, and can be blamed primarily on a single causative factor exhibited by two different groups - greed on the part of corporations (drug costs, substandard food, toxic environment), and greed on the part of people (sue to live, live to sue).

Anyway, it's an interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

But really should we be complaining about prisoners getting better medical care, or should we be complaining about our lack of medical care?

Do you want to improve your medical care system, or just bring everyone else down to your level? Which situation do you think will benefit you better in the long run??

Taking away their medical care is not going to improve yours.

My tax dollars are going towards payment of a system that provides better health care for the dregs of society than it does for its productive citizens.
The old Levitical law had, what I think, was a workable/practical system for dealing with law-breakers: if you damaged someone's property or caused (by neglect) the damage/destruction of someone's property, you repaid the victim with a "fine". if you killed someone, you were put to death. if you killed someone but didn't mean to (ie: ax handle flew off and killed your co-worker), you were branded and sent to "a city of refuge". the "avenger of blood" (next of kin) couldn't touch you as long as you stayed in the city of refuge. if you left the city of refuge, you were fair game to anyone who saw you. the "state" did not support you in any way. you were free to make that city of refuge into whatever kind of place you wanted to live in.
Many (MOST) of the inmates are obviously "drug seeking" and, having access to libraries and computers, can get the information they need to invent symptoms that require narcotics. Knowing they are simply wanting to spend their 25 years stoned to the gills, we have to pay for unnecessary tests to show that they have no medical reason for being granted the narcotics. HUGE waste of taxpayer dollars.
Also, we have a very wasteful system in place in which, if the doctor changes a medication order, we have to DESTROY the remainder of the inmates previously ordered medications. If the current allotment of medications are unopened, we can send them back to the pharmaceutical company for HALF reimbursement. If even one pill is missing, we can't send them back for any reimbursement or give them to charitable organizations (who help law-abiding, poor people that can't afford medications). The system is mismanaged to death and horrendously wasteful.
If any private practice operated the way the state system does, it would be out of business and bankrupt in 30 days.
Also, we have a lot of illegal aliens who can't speak a word of English, have never had any health care in their lives, wouldn't know nutrition or hygiene if they were introduced to it, have never been vaccinated for anything, are walking carriers of diseases we seldom see in this country, but they get the free health care I can't afford for my family. Wouldn't it be cheaper to send them back to their country? We also have to provide a translator (sometimes at overtime or "on call" rates) to find out that their problem isn't even medical related.
Recently we had a bit of funding issues in my state in which it was decided that the state would no longer pay for medication for the mentally ill. Within 6 months our prison doubled its population with "criminally insane". These are people you wouldn't be able to tell from the average joe on the street when they are stabilized on their medication; functional, intelligent, productive people who are chemically imbalanced. It would be cheaper to pay for their psychotropic meds and keep them from running afoul of the law than it is to incarcerate them, pay for their food, housing, clothing AND pay for their psychotropic medications as well as any and all other health care needs they may have.
Me smells a conspiracy here, folks. Sounds like a job for...(drum roll, please)....ATS!

Right on Whitewave! My thoughts exactly.

Anok also made a very valid statement.

Originally posted by ANOK
But really should we be complaining about prisoners getting better medical care, or should we be complaining about our lack of medical care?

Do you want to improve your medical care system, or just bring everyone else down to your level? Which situation do you think will benefit you better in the long run??

Taking away their medical care is not going to improve yours.

Here here!! Well said! I think I mistyped my intentions toward this article earlier, but this nails it. How can you not provide basic medical care to inmates? They are human beings as well, they are already being punished for their crimes by being locked up. Now as far as "perks" such as plasma tv's and such, I am all for those being taken out. Some of the revelations of Oregon's prisons made me sick when it was made public that plasma tv's were actually in inmates cells. I really could care less that they have something to watch, rather the insane waste of money such programs eat up. I have to give the above quote props again as that is really the issue here.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Logan

I think you need to take into account the gangs and gang related murders inside before you say that there are factors outsided that kill you.

Totally agreed, however those things happen on the outside at a much higher rate. When you put a large number of gang members & criminals together of course you will have these issues. The point I was trying to make was simply that you cannot compare 100000 people in jail, to 100000 people on the outside. WAY too many variables to skew the numbers.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Well, then there you go. The article is essentially correct. Its also true that people serving in afghanistan and iraq have a lower mortality rate than a similar cohort living in the US.

Agreed, I didn't make my post very clear earlier. I disagreed with the intent of the article which made it seem as though prison life was cushy. Personally I am happier out here where i am free and have a higher mortality rate. If I was in jail for life, I think I would want to check out earlier than most. If my life sentence is extended a bit, that is that much more punishment.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They single out blacks because it is blacks that are living longer when they are in prison.
If anything, this is an arguement for the bizzare and deep reaching racism in society. That the social system is so stacked against them, that they are literally dying at a completely unnatural rate from it.

I agree fully with your take on it, however I dont believe that was Fox's intent at all.

Originally posted by Nygdan

89 percent [of deaths] — were due to medical reasons [...] But the death rate among men was 72 percent higher than among women.

That is a fascinatingly bizzare statistic. Why should men, especially given that the vast majority are dying from medical conditions, have a death rate 72 percent higher than women? Especially given that everyone is getting moderately acceptable medical care (at a minimum)???
That doesn't actually make sense.

This is one of the reasons that I didn't like how the article was written. I think it was using skewed numbers to illustrate that priosoners have it too easy, especially black prisoners. That is how most people in this thread seem to be reacting to the article. That is why I thought it was poorly written.