When Empires Fall

Through out history there have been many Great Empires. From the Romans to the British Empire, there have been attempts by many countries to have domination over the world. America is no different to this. Having control of South America, and immobilised Africa and Eastern Europe, plus its new attempts at controlling all of the Middle East, it would appear that the West will finally have what they have desired for 500 years. But as with all Great Empires, they have to fall at some point.

My question is when. How long till the American government collapses? Be it all out War with the world, or a civil war...

If the US government were to collapse, it would have a major effect across the world. Just about every country would be affected.

Most likely countries which held there own 'interests' in check (ex. north Korea, China) would problably go ahead and take by force because the US wouldn't be in the picture for a while.

That would lead to world-wide choas. The world is a different place now then back in the old days. The 'old' countries where not intertwined anywhere near as much as today.

If the US were to collapse the world market would follow.......effecting just about everyone.

Like the US or hate the US.......the US is really too important to have it go away.

Originally posted by ferretman2


Like the US or hate the US.......the US is really too important to have it go away.

I completely disagree with that I'm afraid. If the US collapsed, sure, a few countries might take a turn for the worse, but I also believe that many more countries will benefit from it.

As far as I'm concerned, the US is the 'big bad monster' of our times in many peoples eyes, seeing it fall would be a victory to them.

You obviously have no idea how intertwined the world's economies are. With the US being the 'richest' nation, having the most influence.

Do you realize how many 'incidents' don't occur (wars and such) because of the US and it's influence throughout the world.

To start off - Russia would take back the baltic states they lost 10 years ago. - would make Europe very nervous.

China would take Tiawan and maybe Japan. (making Japan nervous)

N. Korea would take South korea (making Japan nervous)

Pakistan and india wuold definitely have a war over Kasmir.

Israel would be a smoldering holde either by Iran or Hizbolla/Hamas

Iran could go after the Gulf states - effecting world oil supply.

etc......that's not even counting what would happen in South America.....

Originally posted by ferretman2
You obviously have no idea how intertwined the world's economies are. With the US being the 'richest' nation, having the most influence.

Do you realize how many 'incidents' don't occur (wars and such) because of the US and it's influence throughout the world.

To start off - Russia would take back the baltic states they lost 10 years ago. - would make Europe very nervous.

China would take Tiawan and maybe Japan. (making Japan nervous)

N. Korea would take South korea (making Japan nervous)

Pakistan and india wuold definitely have a war over Kasmir.

Israel would be a smoldering holde either by Iran or Hizbolla/Hamas

Iran could go after the Gulf states - effecting world oil supply.

etc......that's not even counting what would happen in South America.....

Is the possibility of a police state nation ruling the World better than a world where regions can sort out their own problems?

I understand what you're saying, at its true. But for every war that America stops due to its presence, there are 2 that have been stirred up by their meddling. South America is in the state it is now due to CIA intervention with Governments for pro-American reasons, same with Africa. Israel, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia...yes, if America's power was suddenly crippled, there would be worldwide conflict, the same way as a tumour removed from a body leaves residue and possible infection.

Its an interesting debate. There are a few factors that would mitigate the total collapse of the US.

1) The ideals, thoughts, intentions of the founding fathers allowed the US system of government to be somewhat adaptable for changes in society. This gives a certain degree of flexability / adaptability as things change

2) The concept of the US is that of a melting pot. Yes sometimes those in the pot do not get along, but each group brings certain distinctions to the collective whole that by and large become part of society. That is one reason why American culture is so pervasive outside of the US. Its easy for individual groups to pick out pieces of thier own culture that has already been assimilated into the whole.

3) Food, Food, Food and more food. Barring drastic climate change etc, the US still grows a huge chunk of the worlds food. Empires of the past were by and large net importers of food.

4) While its status as economic / military "super power" may change, the fundemental pricip[als of the government of the US seem pretty well rooted in the American spirit to undergo a drastic change anytime soon.

Originally posted by Subcomandante


My question is when. How long till the American government collapses? Be it all out War with the world, or a civil war...

This is not your grandfathers America

That former America, i think was symbolically killed the day JFK was killed

in a way, the country America will undergo a '21st century ManifestDestiny'
and absorb many of the N. American continent nations, Mex/Can/Pan/Nic/etc

later that N. American Union, will itself be absorbed by the Global NWO,
so in a transcendental way the freedom/democracy/consumerism that America stands for will endure [but with a newer name]

our old, historical concept & definition of 'Empire' needs to be updated
imho

Originally posted by ferretman2
You obviously have no idea how intertwined the world's economies are. With the US being the 'richest' nation, having the most influence.

I fully understand them actually, I just believe that the world will be more relaxed when the US is gone, much of the worlds tensions radiate from the US.

But then again, no-one can say what will happen, it's all guess work.

Originally posted by Zanzibar

I fully understand them actually, I just believe that the world will be more relaxed when the US is gone, much of the worlds tensions radiate from the US.

But then again, no-one can say what will happen, it's all guess work.

If you want to make comparison with the Roman Empire, that fall led to the Dark Ages. Imagine something equivalent in today's world with nuclear weapons, computers, etc. that are in existence.

And not to mention that the world was in pretty much in a hell hole long before the U.S. was born.

The question is . . . is US an empire?

While US is the most powerful nation in the world an empire is a rule of conquered terroritory.

US do push his Policies and its superiority making it looks imperialistic.

Their purpose in modern days is not to hold countries and to rule them but rather spread freedom across the world or that is what is been preached.

US use his economic, political and military power to influence other nations and to stop others from organizing against us.

Now they key is how much of the US influences will other nations allow to be enforce on them before they will become the opposition and seek prosperity on their own.

Since the Soviet Union and the Cold War US has spread his dominance in politics, economy and militarily.

And everything was going fine for our nation.

But now US is facing a new group of competitors that may be changing how much dominance the US Empire has globally.

China is seeking economic growth on their own and has been infiltrating in Africa and South American markets.

They are not using military muscle but they are using the power of diplomacy to win allies.

They also have made good friends with India that is also becoming and emerging economy.

US has depended heavily on the versatility of its dollar, and the European Union is starting to rival US.

It seems that the once solid economic base of our system is becoming under attack.

What is affecting America? Well the trade and budget deficits this two can pretty much be the down fall of the American empire and its dominance in world.

As countries starts to see that US is trying to stretch its powers beyond its borders in ways that are not longer economically but physically it will bring a raising of opposing countries to what our nation is trying to do.





[edit on 4-1-2007 by marg6043]

America doesn't even have to weaken to be over-powered by China at this point, if it can't keep up with China's growth it will be quickly over taken by China. With so many wars going on for America to deal with right now, it is not in a very good position.

"At present China can't compete militarily with the US. But it's important to remember that American military might is built on the superiority of the US economy. The day when China has more money than anyone, it'll have a better defence than anyone"

news.bbc.co.uk...

Although Japan and China have had some turbulent times together in recent history, there is barely more than a sour and weak grudge against each other now as far as their public image/faces go. Japan is a trading nation- it would do well to rely more on China (China in itself is going through the equivilent of an industrial revolution right now), which i am sure it will do.
Japan facts;

* Full name: Japan
* Population: 127.7 million (via UN, 2006)
* Capital: Tokyo
* Area: 377,864 sq km (145,894 sq miles)
* Major language: Japanese
* Major religions: Shintoism, Buddhism
* Life expectancy: 78 years (men), 85 years (women) (UN)
* Monetary unit: yen
* Main exports: Vehicles, computer parts, chemicals, scientific instruments and watches
* GNI per capita: US $38,980 (World Bank, 2006)
* Internet domain: .jp
* International dialling code: +81

China facts;

* Full name: People's Republic of China
* Population: 1.3 billion (via UN, 2006)
* Capital: Beijing
* Area: 9.6 million sq km (3.7 million sq miles)
* Major language: Mandarin Chinese
* Major religions: Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Taoism
* Life expectancy: 70 years (men), 73 years (women) (UN)
* Monetary unit: 1 Renminbi (yuan) (Y) = 10 jiao = 100 fen;
* Main exports: Manufactured goods, including textiles, garments, electronics, arms
* GNI per capita: US $1,740 (World Bank, 2006)
* Internet domain: .cn
* International dialling code: +86

The big question is, is what sort of superpower will China be?
Even at the current, China's vast numbers of people could crush America alone if it really wanted to.