HUD Secretary Speaks Against Black Victimhood

Enough with the semantics already, BH.

I'll clarify for you, since it's such a big deal. The white slavers destroyed the black family, from the beginning of slavery until it was over. Happy now?

I've been happy all along. And while I appreciate your effort, I already know your opinion from reading your post. It's crystal clear how you feel. And I thank you for being so straightforward and clear.

I was asking if Ceci agrees with you. That's all. No games, no wordplay, no deflection.

But no one is under any obligation to answer here.

Originally posted by truthseeka
The white slavers destroyed the black family,

The black slavers in Africa; the Portugese sailors; the Barbary Pirates; and the white plantation owners in America harmed the black family unit - a few hundred years ago.

So what's the black man's excuse for NOW?

You are saying that because of what may have happened to their ancestors a few hundred years ago, black Americans are incapable of sustaining a family unit? That they are incapable of comprehending what it means to make and take care of children properly?

What is so hard to understand, FF?

If you look at the family unit in Africa compared to black America, they are, on average, quite different. In Africa, the family is quite important and strong, comparable to the Hispanic and Asian family. But, as you so happily trumpet, many black American families are headed by one parent.

So, what now? Of course, you'll still insist that American slavery had little impact on the average contemporary black family.

I don't give a what what you THINK I meant, BH.

I KNOW what I meant.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
.

So what's the black man's excuse for NOW?

You are saying that because of what may have happened to their ancestors a few hundred years ago, black Americans are incapable of sustaining a family unit? That they are incapable of comprehending what it means to make and take care of children properly?

What may have happened? We all know it happened.

How about what we know happened just some 50 odd years ago? Is that recent enough for you?

[edit on 6-2-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
How about what we know happened just some 50 odd years ago? Is that recent enough for you?

Phoenix .. we are talking about how slavery pulled apart black families. Slavery ended 150 years ago.

I'm saying that just because slavers (who came in all colors) pulled apart black families more than 150+ years ago, that is NOT an excuse for black men to abandon children TODAY.

Truth says something else. I won't restate his position because that's up to him to do and, frankly, I'm not following his logic here. (sorry truth)

Originally posted by truthseeka
Of course, you'll still insist that American slavery had little impact on the average contemporary black family.

Yes and no. In the area of personal choices that are within their control - then NO, slavery that ended 150 years ago has no impact on deciding to have unprotected sex today.

I'm going to 'insist' that modern day black Americans are more capable of making good personal decisions than you are. I'm not sure if I'm following what you are saying ... ARE you saying that modern day black Americans can not understand the ramifications of making children and abandoning them? It's 'in their make up' or 'it's in their culture' not to understand this?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'm saying that just because slavers (who came in all colors) pulled apart black families more than 150+ years ago, that is NOT an excuse for black men to abandon children TODAY.

Truth says something else. I won't restate his position because that's up to him to do and, frankly, I'm not following his logic here. (sorry truth)

I am sure he will clarify for you.

I do not think that what happened during slavery is an excuse either, it is one of the many factors that do explain the phenomenon though.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
it is one of the many factors that do explain the phenomenon though.

I'm not clear on how it even explains it, though... I think it IS actually an excuse.

I guess I just don't get how what happened so long ago can "stick" in a race to the point where men are affected by it today. I mean, the young black man of today doesn't remember any of this. He is TAUGHT. It's not etched in his DNA.

Are you (truth) saying that promiscuousness and irresponsibility were beaten into the black man's genes by the white man, such that the black man of today really has no choice but to abandon his children in an effort to "mix and match" with other women? Is that how it's all White America's fault?

I mean, lots of pretty cruel things happened to women over the years, but I'm not acting out and blaming men for it today! That was then, this is now...

[edit on 6-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

This article explores why Obama would be so good for America. And I must say, I agree with the vast majority of what he says. Barack Obama as our president just might do more than anything to bring black and white Americans together...

The Great Black-White Hope

One thing we can do about it is to focus attention on can-do black leaders and thinkers such as Barack Obama, former Rep. Harold Ford, D-Tenn., Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., Colin Powell, Cory Booker, Donna Brazile, Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, Tiger Woods, and Thomas Sowell.
...
We can also relegate to the dustbin of history the snake-oil salesmen... These include Jesse Jackson, aptly dubbed "an extortion artist for the grievance elite"
...
"It is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us," as Bill Cosby told the annual convention of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition in 2004. "It keeps you frozen in your hole you are sitting in."
...
Yes, a shamefully large percentage of black children do not get good educations. But that is not because of residual white racism. ... Nor is "white privilege," to borrow the jargon of race-obsessed professors, a major obstacle to black success today.
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Obama's soaring success should tell black children everywhere that they, too, can succeed, and they do not need handouts or reparations.
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But the myth of continuing African-American victimhood still has the power to wilt the hopes and aspirations of more children every day.

One reason for the power of the myth is that, for many, it represents an understandable inference from the fact that America remains racially stratified, with disproportionate numbers of blacks at the bottom in terms of education, wealth, and income. The inference is mistaken. Even if all traces of white racism were to vanish, racial stratification would persist until more poor African-American children get enlightened parenting and good educations.
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The ascent of Obama is the best hope for focusing the attention of black Americans on the opportunities that await them instead of on the oppression of their ancestors.
...
That's why the CEOs of AOL-Time Warner, American Express, and Merrill Lynch are black, as are the current and immediate past secretaries of State.

"There's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America. There's not a black America, and white America, and Latino America, and Asian America; there's the United States of America." - Barack Obama

BH .. thank you for that interesting post on Obama. I still do not plan to vote or support him at this time - because his resume is empty. However it was very interesting reading his thoughts in this area.

Perhaps in 8 years when he has been in the senate and has some political experience, that experience matched with his thoughts in the area of race relations, will make him an excellent candidate for the democrats.

And still, y'all don't get it.

The broken black family is not something that is genetically inherited, it's culturally inherited.

Damn, when you emasculate black men, juice the strength of the black woman, and then make fun of both while asserting that the ridicule is truth, how does that NOT affect people?

The latter point is a reference to the minstrel shows, where white people put on blackface and ridiculed us, not to mention the caricatures in cartoons. This happened after slavery was over. What other purpose did this serve, besides further destroying the psyche of a once-enslaved people?

THAT'S why you have black girls picking the white doll over the black one because the white one is "good," for example. Another thing I think is a factor is that being poor makes you less likely to have access to birth control, including abortions.

Like I said before, I am NOT saying that these men are not responsible for their actions. What I AM saying is that you cannot place all the blame on them, which is what Jackson is apparently doing.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And still, y'all don't get it.

You are right. I absolutely do not see what you are saying. You claim that this is culturally inherited. But the fact is that slavery ended 150 years ago. Culture (for all races) has changed drastically many times since then. If black men are abandoning their children, it's through PERSONAL CHOICE.

Originally posted by FlyersFan, that experience matched with his thoughts in the area of race relations, will make him an excellent candidate for the democrats.

OOOOOPS. I guess I spoke too soon. Oh well.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Scratch my quoted statement. I will reserve judgement on this for a while.

OOOOOOH!

Not so supportive of Obama now, are you? Surprised that he has an agenda? Well wake up, he's a friggin politician.

BUT, that does make me want to look into this guy a bit more. Thanks for that link, FF.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Surprised that he has an agenda? Well wake up, he's a friggin politician.

At first I liked him. Then I looked at his qualifiecations and saw that he has no resume and decided he wasn't presidental material (yet). Then BH posted that great link and I got to read some more of what he has said and I figured that after 8 years in the senate he might be a qualified and GOOD guy. Now ... ugh.

You are absolutely right truthseeka. A frigg'n politician. Many people are going to be disappointed in him. They have their sights set on him as 'new and refreshing' when in fact he's unqualified and, as it turns out, just another politician. *sigh* oh well.

Truthseeka .. is there anything left to discuss on this thread or has it been hashed to death?

Originally posted by truthseeka

The broken black family is not something that is genetically inherited, it's culturally inherited.

I believe the broken black family in both your culture and 'our's (Australian) has occured because of the same infliction..

I agree its not gentically inheritated.. It is socially inflicted.

Take Australias stolen generation of Aboriginal children for example.. Australian governments attempt at genocide is what I and others before me strongly believe that was!

We all know that most of us learn to be a parent from having parents. Do they not say children from violent families are violent, a child in a secure and loving environment grows up to display the same??? YES.. that is so..

In saying that.. how is it that indigenous/tribal people were and have been expected to sucessfully run a home and bring up children when many of them had torturous upbringings which involved living in foster homes and even orphanage style accomodation where heineous acts of physical, sexual and emotional abuse occured???..

C'mon for crying out loud!!!

To assist in this dilema Noal Pearson,lader of a notorious aboriginal community in Australia has also been known to endorse schemes where childrens lunch money, and family home rental payments are automatically deducted from welfare recipients pensions and payments before that payment is allocated to the recipient. this has been a sucessful approach in lightening the harshness of learning to function under a white man designed society that the generation before them was new to and thrown into after being stolen from their mothers arms.

THINK ABOUT IT!

How can people be something that was never modelled to them..

I'm a woman, but i am no princess. You couldnt put me in a tiara, a palace and bethroth me to a prince and expect me to know all the ettiquette. Im just an Aussie woman who had a typical low-middle class upbringing.. I would be disasterous in such a position..

Lay off Laying Blame.. look at it and understand it.. find truths.. then you will understand it.

You are saying that because of what may have happened to their ancestors a few hundred years ago, black Americans are incapable of sustaining a family unit? That they are incapable of comprehending what it means to make and take care of children properly?

That is exactly what I am saying and my above post shows you why... I am happy to have taught you something of BLACK/WHITE culture today

Originally posted by foxywhiskers

You are saying that because of what may have happened to their ancestors a few hundred years ago, black Americans are incapable of sustaining a family unit? That they are incapable of comprehending what it means to make and take care of children properly?

That is exactly what I am saying ...

well. So I guess I have to lower my expectations of black people. I expected them to be able to comprehend the world around them. I expected they could understand basic human dignity issues and basic common sense. Okay. Nevermind. They aren't smart enough, and they aren't capable enough to be able to be anything except the bottom rung of society. Useless eatters forever. I guess all the stereotypes are true. Well ... color me surprised.

Hey foxy.

I had often wondered if the aboriginal people of Australia were black. But, more than that, your description of what has happened in Australia is interesting.

Admittedly, I know almost nothing about the people of Australia, or much else about Australia besides some knowledge of the wildlife. But, I fully understand the point you made in your post.

And yes, FF, this has been hashed to death. But, since I conceded to your points to a degree while you failed to do so to mine, I claim victory. MWAHAHAHAHA!!!