Parts of original WTC North Tower blueprints for sale on eBay

There seems to be alot of controversy as to why we can't get our hands on the WTC blueprints. Even the investigators had to fight to get these released to them, and from there on noone has really heard or seen anything of them. To my understanding these should be public by law.

But enough on that, I stumbled across parts of the original blueprints for sale on eBay I've seen one other item on eBay similar but that auction was closed a long time ago. This one closes on Dec.31 so there's still time to place a bid!! They are only parts of floors 24, 26 and 30 (totaling 20 prints), but the selles states that "These are not "new" prints...they were used by the contractors".

These are contractor's blueprints from the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. All are marked Merrill Lynch, The Phillips Janson Group Architects, P.C. Dated along the edge as well as on the bottom right hand corner. Each page has its own set of numbers on the bottom right corner (see pictures)

The prints are 36"X47" (approximate) Each one is for different areas of the 24th Flr., 26th Flr, 30th Flr and some are combined 24th/26th/30th. There are 20 prints total. They have the original pencil marks/notes and highlighter marks from the contractor. Given the fact they were used for construction they have the normal rips on the edges and some have fading from the sun that you would expect during use. They are in good condition and you can very clearly see the blueprints/drawings. The fact that they are aged and not in perfect condition makes them all the more interesting.

eBay: World Trade Center North Tower Blueprints (item 260068845565 end time Dec-31-06 11:09:47 PST)

What do you guys think? Is this worth looking into? The starting bid is $375



Update:

I seem to have found atleast one person who has been in posession of these blueprints. His name is John E. Fernandez, and he is an Associate Professor and member of the Building Technology Program in the Department of Architecture.

MIT Architecture: John Fernandez Profile

I sent him the following email:

Dear Mr Fernandez

I stumbled across your name in an article on the MIT website titled "Replica of World Trade Center wall built at MIT as place for reflections, flowers" published 15. September 2001 (web.mit.edu...) where it states:

"The committee and student representatives worked side by side with Assistant Professor of Architecture John Fernandez, who was studying the blueprints and structure of the 30-year-old buildings the day after the disaster."

There seems to be alot of controvercy about why these blueprints were never made available to the public. I would be very grateful if you could help me with these questions:

-Where did you obtain these blueprints, and are they available to the general public?
-Do you still have them, and if so, is it possible to obtain a copy from you?


With regards
xxxxxxxx

[edit on 25-12-2006 by DrLeary]

I think those are plans for the World Financial Center, not the World Trade Center. The WFC buildings were the taller buildings surrounding the WTC complex on the western side. That would make that eBay lot misleading, at the very least.

Pages of an early master plan for the WTC are now available here:

911research.wtc7.net...

They don't show too awfully much, though, and weren't the actual final plans for the complex.

[edit on 25-12-2006 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
I think those are plans for the World Financial Center, not the World Trade Center. The WFC buildings were the taller buildings surrounding the WTC complex on the western side. That would make that eBay lot misleading, at the very least.

I think you're right on the money. The date in one of the photos is 12-18-96??? PLUS- The seller has just joined EBAY, and has ZERO feedback. At $375.00 I'd say it's a scam. I sent them an e-mail to clarify what they had. Let's see what they say. . . Sorry

2PacSade-

Figures...

No answer from John Fernandez yet either... These documents could be very usefull if we are ever going to make a realistic computer model of what happened. I was watching NG the other day, and it was some sort of documentary about how we are developing technology to protect ourself from terrorists. They always show you the aftermath of bombings (like the oklahoma bombing) and then they show all kinds of recreations using computer simulation. I've seen these types of recreations for just about every other major incident, but I have never seen one for the WTC...

Why is is that only the conspircy theorists are making these movies? When will we get a Dicovery, NG or any other major media recreation of the event? They have one for the Pentagon as well. But for the WTC we only get a sappy oliver stone movie where nothing is really explained properly. Get what I'm saying? Does anyone know if there is such a documentary that I just havent heard of yet? Not Loose Change, or anything like that. One made by a "reputable" source. And no, I'm not bashing Loose Change, I think alot of these documentaries are done really well, but the public will always reject them because they're made by so called conspiracy theorists.

Someone on the Internet is making a 3d model of the WTC.. God it looks so sexy.. sorry 3d artist when not doing my superhero job here..

Anyway I cant remember where it is if I find the site or anyone else who knows can post a link up here.

But from the looks of it, It look pretty damn detailed if you ask me, as detailed as you can get with so little images of clean images of the buildings and such now.

::EDIT::

Found the link here..
forum.skyscraperpage.com...


[edit on 12/28/2006 by ThichHeaded]

Originally posted by DrLeary
They always show you the aftermath of bombings (like the oklahoma bombing) and then they show all kinds of recreations using computer simulation. I've seen these types of recreations for just about every other major incident, but I have never seen one for the WTC...

What's funny is that in earlier releases, NIST did have some 3D modeling of portions of the collapse as per the theory they were trying to develop. These can be found on their site if you look back through their early releases on the WTC investigation.

These models, though, also tended to show how independent the trusses were, such that one sagging and somehow failing would NOT result in the same thing happening to all the other trusses across a whole floor simultaneously, within a fraction of a second, to cause a floor to drop straight down.

I can only imagine why these models were dropped for mere words, and very vague ones at that, not to mention contradicting their actual tests.

I looked on the NYC building permit page for all the jobs performed by Phillips Janson Group - 11 W. 42nd St NY NY, but could not find a reference number that matches the project numbers in the pictures. The BIN, or Building Identification Number for 3 WFC, ( which is also referred to as The North Tower in the WFC), is 1000059. There were 905 jobs that have been filed against that location since the late 80's.

I called Phillips Janson Group on two phone numbers, 212-786-0800 was not in service, and there's a generic VMS on 212-302-1125. I left a message so if they call me I will hopefully be able to get them to verify the drawings.

1 WTC BIN number was 1081988. It only had four jobs against it. The last couple being the construction of a 34ft sidewalk shed on 11/15/01, and temporary stage structure & tent on 09/10/02. There wasn't ONE mention of any job performed by Phillips Janson Group for this location.

I still haven't heard back from " Jljunktiques ", who is the seller on EBAY, and I doubt I will hear from them. Being an EBAY member in good standing with 100% positive feedback I also sent an e-mail to their security people.

I'll keep an eye on the item to see if the listing gets pulled.

2PacSade-

Hello all-

Here's what happened;

Originally from my e-mail to EBAY security

This is an update to my prior concern in this listing.

Response from Jljunktiques;

My sincere apologies. After reading your question I looked at the plans. They are of the WFC not WTC. They were sold to us as WTC at a reputable auction house locally. We were told that frequently plans are copied reflecting later dates on them when work resumes or repairs are made so we did not question the dates. Thank you for pointing this out...I'm very embarrassed. I will change it immediatly. So much for reputable auctioneers. This was a lesson learned. Again I thank you for catching this mistake before they were sold.

My response;

Thank you. I find it hard to believe that this got under your radar considering the fact that from two photos you provided I was able to identify that these artifacts were not what you claimed them to be. . . But I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are new to EBAY.

Just some friendly advice. . . Make sure you are confident in what you claim to sell & buy here, your word is everything. . . If you choose to lose it, you will have a short stay here. . .

Thanx again for your swift attention to this matter & have a good day. . .

BUSTED!!!

Here's the new listing on EBAY. The italicised print is the only thing they changed. The rest of the listing stayed exactly the same as the original. Right down to the, " This is a great chance to own a piece of American history ", claim. . .

cgi.ebay.com...

These are contractor's blueprints from the North Tower of the World Financial Center in New York City. All are marked Merrill Lynch, The Phillips Janson Group Architects, P.C. Dated along the edge as well as on the bottom right hand corner. Each page has its own set of numbers on the bottom right corner (see pictures)

The prints are 36"X47" (approximate) Each one is for different areas of the 24th Flr., 26th Flr, 30th Flr and some are combined 24th/26th/30th. There are 20 prints total. They have the original pencil marks/notes and highlighter marks from the contractor. Given the fact they were used for construction they have the normal rips on the edges and some have fading from the sun that you would expect during use. They are in good condition and you can very clearly see the blueprints/drawings. The fact that they are aged and not in perfect condition makes them all the more interesting.

It was very difficult to get good pictures because of the size and light color of the paper and there are so many. If I can answer any questions I will be happy to do so.

***Please read the description carefully. I want everyone to understand exactly what they are bidding on. These are not "new" prints...they were used by the contractors.

This is a great chance to own a part of American History.

Now they only want $200.00 bucks for. . . A part of absolute & totally insignificant American history. . . Oh my God. . . What a deal. . . I hope I win. . .

This myth is BUSTED- Sorry

2PacSade-