Insurgents offer US 30 day truce to get out of iraq

Retseh: Best of intentions my butt. The American people, maybe. The American government? That's a historically ridiculous statement and blatantly untrue when it comes to Iraq especially. Off the top of my head, the only US military adventure which really measures up to the level of corruption seen in the war in Iraq is probably Hawaii. Even in Vietnam at least you could make the claim that there was an honest misunderstanding of Ho Chi Mihn's priorities and a misguided belief that we were taking important strategic defensive measures in defense of Indonesia and, by proxy, Australia. In Iraq, the conduct of the war makes it crystal clear that job one has always been creating a pretext for massive contracts- it's a treasury raid: the biggest act of patronage in American history.


Syrian Sister: The tet offensive that you speak of is precisely the point. The Iraqi insurgency can't do it. In Vietnam there was a unified, highly organized, well supplied ARMY on the other side: one that had been at war constantly for an entire generation and become very adept at its trade. That's what it took to pull off the tet offensive.

The Iraqi insurgency is factionalized, under-experienced, under-equipped, and under-coordinated. No tunnels, no safe haven in the North, a much farther distance from the safe zones over the border to the population centers, easier to observe terrain and no significant heavy artillery. The Iraqi insurgency lacks the size, organization, and combat power to take the fight to the field in a semi-conventional manner and deliver the coup de grâce.

Because of this, they must be content to wait the US out and self-organize (or fail to do so) as the Afghans did when the Soviets pulled out. There will not be any concessions which strengthen their internal position when we leave because they lack the combat power to force such concessions.


Those things considered, I stand by the moral and tactical direction of my previous post (which I can't help thinking that nobody bothers to read)

The sad thing is . . . that American people care less for oil. . . unless the prices start to show up in at the gas pump. . .

But the oil barons that runs our nation do, and they care less who die or who they force into the middle east to fight their wars.

[edit on 24-12-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The Iraqi insurgency is factionalized, under-experienced, under-equipped, and under-coordinated. No tunnels, no safe haven in the North, a much farther distance from the safe zones over the border to the population centers, easier to observe terrain and no significant heavy artillery. The Iraqi insurgency lacks the size, organization, and combat power to take the fight to the field in a semi-conventional manner and deliver the coup de grâce.

The Vagabond you made an interesting post for the most part I just want to add my thoughts rather then disagree with what you have said. . Given the lack of border security and the general all round lack security measures I don't think that the distance to Iraq's borders is much of a problem. Given the insurgents strategy of suicide bombing in order to undermine the weak Iraqi government a lack of experience isn't a problem. the insurgents would use tunnels to smuggle arms , explosives and to move hostages.

On another note Financial aid wont do any good if it ends up in the hands of corrupt government officials rather then where it is needed.

I don't think that we will see a semi conventional war war from the insurgents either but I still maintain that Iraq's demise isn't going to be pretty.

Originally posted by xpert11
Given the lack of border security and the general all round lack security measures I don't think that the distance to Iraq's borders is much of a problem.

In the context that you're refering to, I think you're absolutely right. I was referring specifically to Syrian Sister's quote that all they need now is a tet offensive: in otherwords a broad-front conventional attack. It was in that regard that borders and open country make a difference, because the Iraqi insurgency, even if it were to develop the force needed for that, would not be able to suddenly appear in the area of operations like the Viet Cong were able to do courtesy of tunnels, jungle, and proximity to borders.

I don't think that we will see a semi conventional war war from the insurgents either but I still maintain that Iraq's demise isn't going to be pretty.

Again I agree, but I think that since we created this situation by expending so much for the wrong reasons, we have an obligation to continue investing for the right reasons to whatever extent Iraq accepts as we withdraw our forces. To say, "Ok, we're leaving and we're not going to help you in any way now because the mess we made is just too big to clean up". Odds are 90% that this will essentially mean sending good money after bad and accomplish little more than padding a few pockets, but the American people need to leave this war with an understanding that we can't just wash our hands of a mess like this when we create it. We have a moral obligation to the people of Iraq now, regardless of the odds (except of course, unlike what some hawks claim, that obligation is not to continue the war, but to support them on terms amenable to them.

You have voted marg6043 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

First of all the insurgency is the Iraqi people and as long as is an Iraqi in Iraq they will stay strong, so is illusions to think that the Insurgency is dying .

Rare to find someone who embraces the truth like this.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Rare to find someone who embraces the truth like this.

Thanks Syrian Sister, I may be An American citizen but I am no blind to the doings of my elected government and the actions behind its foreign policies, the invasion of Iraq and the truth behind destabilizing the middle east region.

I hate how corporate power has taken hold of our great nation and ruling within the government.

They care less about the countries they target and the misused of our proud troops to get what they want.

Shame on them all and the devastation they are causing to other nations under false pretenses.

This is a sign that the insurgents are growing weaker. We are starting to crush their will. This truce of cease fire is not toward the american military, but toward the american ppl who are growing tired of hearing about the war in iraq. The insurgents think by offering a truce that the american ppl (Not the american military) will take this truce and cut in run with their tail tucked firmly between their legs. Just going to say this now. NOT going to happen. They want to fight like dogs, then they will die like dogs!

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks Syrian Sister, I may be An American citizen but I am no blind to the doings of my elected government and the actions behind its foreign policies, the invasion of Iraq and the truth behind destabilizing the middle east region.

I hate how corporate power has taken hold of our great nation and ruling within the government.

They care less about the countries they target and the misused of our proud troops to get what they want.

Shame on them all and the devastation they are causing to other nations under false pretenses.

For the longest time America has been run by big corporations, no difference since you were born, it was there since before you're time, my time, any of our times. As president Coolidge once said "The Business of America, is Business."

I think some people are blindsighted by their own ambitions.

In the end, the way I see it, there is no real truth; but that which the human mind wants to percieve and confirm.

Marg, everything you've stated in your post has been going on for the longest time, you'd be kidding yourself if you stated that you "could remember a time where this wasn't true" because it's always been true.

And I believe that your assertion that the Iraqi Insurgency is the Iraqi people to be wrong, because there are American sympathizers in Iraq. The Iraqi people as a whole is not the insurgency, they want what any god-fearing people want, a safe place to live and worship, now if they want to fight the American Military and any foreign invaders, or fight the insurgents and the so called "freedom fighters" of their country, that's up to them. Ultimately, their goal is a nation under their law, the Islamic law, they are a proud people, they are no different than the Americans; they just have different views, but not all of them are against the Americans because there are very intelligent people in Iraq and there are Iraqis who think for themselves.

Right now there is chaos, but hopefully in the future there will be a secure place for them.

Shattered OUT...

Insurgency is getting weaker?

I think its the exact opposite...what with the ever increasing rate of explosions, death, us fatalities...
specially being the war is starting to cost a very pretty penny......
also being Iran hasnt had anything stopping its supply lines.

wow, to me it seems everything is coming up trumps for the insurgents...

public support for the war is dropping
public support for bush is where it should be, almost non existent..
and the independant media are starting to show the reality on the ground in Iraq, which is going to further isolate the American's plans...

.... im still failing to see anything that says the insurgents are .. if you pardon the pun

'' in their last throws ''

I think, this is a very big slap in the face for America. it was intended to be that way. No one expected the Americans to take the offer, simply by airing it, gives that sort of atmosphere that the insurgents are the ones calling the shots in Iraq.

which is 100% true..

well, accept for that small, boxed in cement walled area they call the greenzone, and no one dares step foot outside that anymore, unless your an armoured convoy.


Sigh... such stupidity, by so few, is going to ruin the lives of so many.





[edit on 25-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Most of the sympatizers in iraq are the same people that wants to turn Iraq and handle their natural resources in the hands of the oil barons of America, so while the nation dies they can trhive.

Just the same way that middle class America is dying right now.

Corporate American has always been there, but it was the Reagan administration that has put them where they are right now.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Insurgency is getting weaker?

I think its the exact opposite...what with the ever increasing rate of explosions, death, us fatalities...
specially being the war is starting to cost a very pretty penny......
also being Iran hasnt had anything stopping its supply lines.

wow, to me it seems everything is coming up trumps for the insurgents...

public support for the war is dropping
public support for bush is where it should be, almost non existent..
and the independant media are starting to show the reality on the ground in Iraq, which is going to further isolate the American's plans...

.... im still failing to see anything that says the insurgents are .. if you pardon the pun

'' in their last throws ''

I think, this is a very big slap in the face for America. it was intended to be that way. No one expected the Americans to take the offer, simply by airing it, gives that sort of atmosphere that the insurgents are the ones calling the shots in Iraq.

which is 100% true..

well, accept for that small, boxed in cement walled area they call the greenzone, and no one dares step foot outside that anymore, unless your an armoured convoy.


Sigh... such stupidity, by so few, is going to ruin the lives of so many
[edit on 25-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

One thing that you said in this is true. And thats "You think". In other words you UNPROFESSIONAL WORTHLESS OPINION! FYI I bolded your worthless opinon. So this just goes to show its the worthless opinion of a few and NOT the entire general population.

Now the question is. Are you "thinking" on your own? Or just going on what the talking heads have to say. In other words saying whats popular? Nice way to not "think" for youself.


Yea Ill believe you when me crap turns purple and smells like rainbow shirburt......


[edit on 083131p://111 by semperfoo]

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[edit on 25-12-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Watch out Marg, the Oil barons are coming! The oil barons are coming!

You seem to cry Oil baron alot.

Anything new? How about wolf? That's an original no one's used.

Oil and power hungry corporations seems to be the only defense you have when in reality it goes much deeper than that. Believe it or not, life does not revolve around oil. There is religion, land, and old rivalries that get in the way before oil. For the longest time wars have been fought over Land, Religion, and Resources, not oil alone. Wars are still fought for those very reasons today.

This problem goes much deeper; and there is a problem out there in the Middle East (The United States being one of the many problems there) and it does not revolve around oil. Oil is not the root of all evil, people are.

If it's not oil today, it'll be something else tomorrow, so the "it's all for oil" argument not only got old, but I believe(and this is my sole opinion for what it's worth) it's useless in the grande scheme of things. Now you can always turn to these debates/arguments and say things like "The only truth out there is that the corporations are trying to destroy everything that mankind stands for! All for money! Including those power hungry oil mongers!" That has very limited truth in it and the reason it is so limited is because it is in human nature to be greedy and to covet the things that others have. We all do it, everyone is guilty of it. Everyone. There are people out there who can control their greed and so forth, I believe some might confuse them for saints.

It's in human nature to fight, to steal, to lie, to cheat, to destroy. But it is also in human nature to build, to nurture, to repair, and most importantly to forgive.

Shattered OUT...

Semperfoo

here's another then.
I THINK you should growup

maybe focus on the points in my reply you dont agree with, then explain your point of view

your whole reply was nothing but an attack.

Its worthless, waste of space, I voiced my opinion you dont agree, fair enough.

have some maturity to debate the topic and challenge my views, instead of acting like a child.

[edit on 25-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]