Yes to War with Iraq

God NWO yet again you prove your stupidity.

The Nuclear bomb SAVED millions of Japanese lives, as well as many Americans.

You obviously have no clue as to the Japanese "homeland" defense plan, which is why you'd say something so stupid. But I'll catch you up to speed. Japan took every available man and boy and gave him a gun and some rounds, stuck him in a fox hole, and told them to stay here until you are dead. Which is what they'd have done.

DO you know how many they numbered? About 1.6million were prepared to hope in those holes and hold off our invasion till they were dead. Do you have any real idea of how many actually died from BOTH Nuclear bombs put together?

160,000 about. I think the numbers show that we obviously did the Japs a favor, though I don't think the second bomb was necissary.

As for Afghanistan, you dumba.ss, we ousted the FORIEGN arab invaders that enslaved afghanistan in their horrible theocratic system. Or have you never heard of anything called the TALIBAN?

God damn...I hate uninformed people, you must be relying on liberal college professors for your information.

Sincerely,
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The little thing you call fact about Taliban having their main seat in Afghanistan is just a mediafabricated lie to fool the people into believing a war there was justified, fact is that Al Qaida is everywhere. Look at what good that war did, it did #, the only thing it was good for was a oilpipeline to the caspian sea and the major production of poppy fields, all of which will eventually turn up on the streets of the US!!! I would really like to see where you got that information from that Talibans are Arabs, please enlighten me man cause I just know I am right. Remember these passengerlists the US gave out, what did we see here, yes indeed ALL ARAB names, can you spell that, it goes like this A R A B. So please indulge me mate, show me where you got that weird fact from that Talibans are Arabs.

Money money money makes the world go round, you can say what you like, I for one do not believe what I see on CNN, if you are the fool to believe it suits me fine.

[Edited on 18-11-2002 by Illuminati-NWO]

[Edited on 18-11-2002 by Illuminati-NWO]

Ugh...you'll never see the truth if you keep thinking its hidden. I knew about the Taliban before they ever had "reason" to make them up. I still remember their attrocious acts when they destroyed the Buddhist statues against the Will of the UN.

The fact also is that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are two different things. The Taliban was supporting Al Qaeda FROM Afghanistan, it also was a brutal and foreign regiem. They did nothing wrong in tearing it down.

Sincerely,
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It is amazing to find such intellectuals as some of yourselves believing what this Facist Plutocracy is feeding everyone. Let me make my point here to avoid any confusion or misconstrunement.

US IS ENTERING A WAR WITH IRAQ FOR THE SAME REASON IT HAS ENTERED IN ALL PREVIOUS ONES: OIL.

Now that being said, I would like to point out that US backed operatives have been taken out heads of states for many years for their outright socialist and anti-imperialist ideology. Take Patrice Lumumba for example, www.wsws.org...

This greedy cabal will stop at nothing to achieve their goals, even if it means killing American citizens overseas, www.wsws.org.... Funny how they didn't want to sign the ICC agreement at the Haque, they were planning this all the while.www.wsws.org...

Facts are that there are already foreign interests in Afghanistan that make American owned privatization a veritable quandry, www.msnbc.com...so what better way to sidestep it than to bumrush the 2nd largest oil reserve? www.wsws.org...

Is anyone even aware of the fact that American forces are currently occupying 1/4 of Kuwait and have 10 TIMES the amount of troops stationed there than at the end of the FIRST Persian Gulf War?

And what's this talk of Saddam being this great ogre? Doesn't Tom Brokaw tell all you nice folks out there that the Reagan administration along with the cooperation of the CIA tacitly supported the Kurdish gassings in Iraq during the 1980-1988 War? American tax dollars went to material support and training for this great atrocity, yet no one's the wiser.Under this philosophy shouldn't we be going after Russia for gassing its own citizens? Of course not because American media doesn't want the people to know the reason why the Chechyn rebels stormed the theatre. Chechnya is sitting on huge undeveloped oil reserves that Mother Russia just isn't quite willing to let go. That's why there's Russian troops there NOW marauding, raping, and pillaging innocent people. www.wsws.org...

Well just my 2 cents. FIGHT FOR YOUR MIND.

What a GREAT country we live in.American Gassings

Yes: Taliban = Arab is a new milestone for ATS.

And please remember that having an Arabic name doesn't ensure that the bearer is an Arab -just as the majority (even now I suspect) of Western Christians (or just Westerneres) have names that are Hebrew in origin (John, David,Mary etc -for obvious Biblical reasons), so Muslims from anywhere will often take Arabic names from the Quran or Arabic tradition: starting with Mohammed Ali (the boxer) there must be zillions of black Americans by now with assumed Arabic names.

Originally posted by JonBlaze
-snip-

US IS ENTERING A WAR WITH IRAQ FOR THE SAME REASON IT HAS ENTERED IN ALL PREVIOUS ONES: OIL.

-snip-

Is anyone even aware of the fact that American forces are currently occupying 1/4 of Kuwait and have 10 TIMES the amount of troops stationed there than at the end of the FIRST Persian Gulf War?

Wow... ALL CAPS, the conspiracy extremist's secret code signal for: THIS IS THE TRUTH. Perhaps you can help us poor simple web denizins with a list of the wars you believe to be over oil. Since Canada is our largest single supplier, it must have been covered in that movie, "Canadian Bacon".

American forces "occupying" 25% of Kuwait! Wow! JB has a scoop on all western and eastern media! And 10 times the troops as well! Again... wow! The U.S. military must have been on one hell of a secret recruitment campaign. 10 times huh? How many troops is that? Are you including equipment too? That's a lot of grunts needing a lot of gear.


Well, with NWO we've seen liberal pony-tailed high-school history teacher revisionist pabulum being spoon-fed to mind-numb students, and with JB, we're seeing hyper-paranoid extreme NWO conspiracy hogwash numbing the mind. I guess these aren't surprises on either front. -sigh-

Here's a little condensensed version of US History on Foreign Policy.

Philippines
The 1899 Filipino-American War is one of those nasty little conflicts that you won�t find a lot about in your high school history textbook. Call it the first Vietnam. During the 1898 Spanish-American War, the US help the Filipinos gain independence from Spain. Then they declare the country an American colony. A brutal war follows. Many of the scorched-earth tactics used in Vietnam are first used here. More than 100 000 Filipinos die. A large anti-imperialism movement starts in the US. �We do not intend to free, but subjugate the people of the Philippines. We have gone there to conquer, not to redeem,� wrote early celebrity activist Mark Twain. In 1945, the Americans come back to the Philippines. Even though they have a common enemy � Japan � America fights leftist forces known as Huks. The US defeat the Huks, and install a series of puppet presidents, culminating in the absurdly corrupt Ferdinand Marcos. He and his high-heel-obsessed wife bilk the poverty-ridden country dry for three decades, until retiring comfortably in Hawaii.


Iran
1953 - The CIA�s first big takedown. The democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadegh had to go. He was talking crazy talk, like nationalizing Iran�s oil. A CIA-sponsored coup kills him and restores the Shah to absolute power that begins 25 years of repression and torture. Iran�s oil is returned to its rightful owners, the Americans and British. This, of course, sets the stage for a radical Islamic revolution in 1979, when the Ayatollah Khomeini takes over, holds Americans hostage, burns many American flags, and pisses off rednecks across America.

Guatemala
1953 - Jacobo Arbenz also had to go. The progressive democratically elected president is also talking that crazy talk - you know, land reform, civil liberties, nationalizing the Washington-connected United Fruit Company. The CIA organizes a massive disinformation campaign and coup. Next up: 40 years of bad, bad things you don�t even want to think about � American-trained death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions. Victims: 100 000.

Middle East
In the 50s, the Eisenhower Doctrine stated the United States �is prepared to use armed forces to assist� any Middle East country �requesting assistance against armed aggression from any country controlled by international communism.� In other words, no one is allowed is to # around in the Middle East or its oil fields except the United States. The US tries to overthrow the Syrian government (twice), lands 14 000 troops in Lebanon, and conspires to overthrow and assassinate Arab nationalist Nasser in Egypt. US supports Israel with billions of dollars of aid, despite its harsh treatment of Palestinians and massacres in Lebanon.


Indonesia
1957 - President Sukarno is another troublemaker. He takes back Indonesian companies from their former colonial master, the Dutch. He takes a trip to Moscow. He refuses to crack down on communists. The CIA launches a disinformation campaign, tries to blackmail him with a fake sex film, plots his assassination, and hooks up with dissident military officers to start a full-scale war against the government. Sukarno, unlike many on the Agency�s hit list, somehow survives. 1965 - Sukarno is finally overthrown by General Suharto. The US helps him track down anyone suspected of being communist. The New York Times calls what follows �one of the most savage mass slayings of modern political history.� Up to one million die.

Vietnam
After watching the French get their asses kicked halfway to Montparnasse, the US gets embroiled in a civil war pitting communist nationalist forces against a corrupt, pro-west government. In 1961, the first young American men start arriving home in body bags. Before it�s over, more than one million Vietnamese and 50,000 Americans will die, Jimi Hendrix will play Woodstock, the Beatles will form and break up, and the American psyche will be radically transformed. In 1973, the US finally admits defeat, forever dooming it to need to overcome the �Vietnam Syndrome� (see Rambo).

Cambodia
1969 - Nixon and Kissinger begin their secret �carpet bombings� of Cambodia. They say it is to kill Viet Cong hiding out in the Cambodian jungle. Hundreds of thousands of Cambodian civilians die. 1970 - Washington finally helps overthrow troublesome Prince Sihanouk in a coup. The US enlists the genocidal maniac Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge to help fight the Viet Cong. Five years later, Pol Pot takes over, declares �Year Zero,� kills anyone with an education, or even wearing glasses, and sends everyone to the countryside to work in agricultural labor camps. More than two million die in his �killing fields� (see The Killing Fields).


The Congo/Zaire
1960 - Patrice Lumumba becomes the Congo�s first prime minister after independence from Belgium. But the Belgians don�t quite leave. They keep their hands on the vast mineral wealth in the Katanga province, where the Americans also have a piece of the action. Lumumba is defiant, calling for the Congo�s economic and political liberation. In other words, he is doomed. In January 1961, he is assassinated with help from the CIA, under orders from Eisenhower himself. His body is chopped up into little pieces and burned in acid. Mobutu Sese Seko takes over, changes the name to Zaire, and begins one of the most corrupt and bloody dictatorships in modern times. Even his CIA handlers are amazed at his cruelty. Thirty years later, despite its rich natural resources, the people of the Congo are still dirt-poor, Mobutu is a multibillionaire, and the country is in chaos. In 1997, Mobutu is overthrown, and retires to the Cote d�Azur. The country slides into a civil war that has killed more than one million.

Cuba
1959 - When Fidel Castro rolls into Havana New Years Day he isn�t a commie � he is a nationalist and an opportunist. But he did take over Cuba�s national industries. And that, as we�ve learned, is something the US doesn�t look kindly on. The Americans begin a comically disastrous campaign to oust Castro. They help launch a full-scale invasion at the Bay of Pigs and are crushed. They launch gunboat attacks, bombings, biological warfare. New evidence has just come out that the CIA even considered committing terrorist acts and then blaming them on Cuba as a pretext to invade again. They try to send Castro exploding cigars. Spray poison on his beard. The US issues sanctions and a trade embargo that, more than anything, ensures Castro remains in power.

Chile
1973 - Salvador Allende was a �dangerous� man. He was popular, democratically elected, and a leftist. Against the objections of many inside the US State Department, the CIA, pushed by Kissinger, helps the military overthrow the government. Allende is killed. General Pinochet closes off the country to the outside world. Tanks roll in, soldiers round up students, stadiums turn into execution fields, the country is gripped by fear. For two decades, Pinochet rules with a brutal hand, and thousands of students, union organizers and other bad apples are �disappeared� (see the movie Missing).


East Timor
December 1975 - Indonesia invades the small island of East Timor, which had proclaimed its independence after Portugal left. The day before, US President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger were in Indonesia meeting with Indonesian President Suharto. Amnesty International estimates that by 1989, Indonesian troops had killed 200 000 people out of a population of between 600 000 and 700 000. The US supplies Indonesia with aid, guns, and training throughout.

Nicaragua
1978 - the leftist Sandinistas overthrow the US-backed Somoza dictatorship. Reagan becomes obsessed with taking out the Cuba-and-Soviet-friendly government, enlisting an army of mercenaries, drug dealers and ex-Somoza National Guardsmen. The Contras attack schools and medical clinics, raping, torturing, mining harbors, and bombing. When Congress cuts off funds, Reagan�s �freedom fighters� are financed by CIA drug-dealing and secret arms sales to Iran in what comes to be known as the Iran-Contra Affair.


El Salvador
During El Salvador�s bloody civil war (1980-92), the US funds, trains, and secretly fights alongside a military that operates less like a traditional army than a loose confederation of homicidal fraternities. By the end of the war, 75 000 Salvadorans are dead.


Panama
During the 80s, Manny Noriega was George Bush�s nigga. On the CIA payroll, he helped the US run drugs, launder money and ship arms to its operations in Nicaragua and El Salvador. But ol� Pineapple Face became a problem. Turned out he was helping Castro, laundering money for Pablo Escobar, and talking smack about US imperialism. Plus he knew way too much about the whole Iran-Contra scandal. Dude had to go. In December 1989, Bush sends in the Green Berets to arrest him for drug dealing. A whole Panama City barrio is leveled. The official body count is 500-something, others say 3 000. Noriega sits in a Florida jail feeling confused.



IRAQ
In the 80's Saddam Hussein is America's ally. The U.S. sends him weapons and money as he fights a seemingly endless war against Iran,murders his politia opponents and gasses the Kurds. In 1991, Saddam is pissed off at neighboring Kuwait (a country invented by the Britain) for undercutting the price of oil. He invades. The U.S. forms an international coalition to "liberate" Kuwait. Saddam sends an army of barefoot conscripts. For more then 40 days and nights, 177 miliion pounds of bombs fall on Iraq - the most concentrated aerial onslaught in the history of the world. The U.S. uses cancer-causing depleted uranium weapons; the bury soldiers alive; they bomb retreatng troops and civilians. At the war's end, the U.S. turns its back on the Kurds and other anti-saddam forces (see Three Kings). While Saddam remains in power, U.S. sanctions and continued bombing keep food, medicine, and clean water from everyday Iraqis. According to the UN, over one million Iraqis have died, half of them children.

Afghanistan

Beginning in the 1970's, the US pours billions of dollars into over-throwing a pro-Soviet government. The CIA funds, trains, and arms a guerilla army of Islamic extremists known as the Mujahideen. The Soviets are driven out, in their version of Vietnam. More then a million Afghans are dead, three million disabled and fiv million made refugees. The country slides into civil war in which an even more radical group of Pakistan-educated students and un-educated hillbillies known as the Taliban take over. The country becomes a heaven for anti-American terrorists groups and women-haters. Lies flourish. While outwardly criticizing the Taliban, behind the scenes the CIA and American oil companies jockey for leverage to build a pipeline across the country.


Yugoslavia

1999 - After the Serbs start "ethnic cleansing" Albanians in the Yugoslavian province of Kosovo, the US and NATO launch 70 days of air strikes against Serbia (an act that had nothing to do with Coporate intrests and was actually pretty reasonable). Thouands of Serbs are killed. The ethnic Albanian KLA guerilla army, a drug-dealing group of thugs who were first accused of ethnic cleansing Serb by THE NEW YORK TIMES back in 1982, start an open season on Serbs living in Kosovo. The bombs stop, and Serb demagogue Slobodan Milosevic is driven from power by a popular movement.

COLOMBIA

2001 - Colombia's 38 year old civil war is still going strong, despite, or one might say, as a result of $2.2 Billion of US military aid (as to this date,congress is debating another $900 million to send). The country is a chaotic death trap. Marxist rebels hold large portions of the country; American mercenaries and defense department front companies like DynCorp and Virginia Electronics are covertly helping the inept Colombian military; (in the early 60's the testing place for the experimental weapon, Napalm, by the US military, was in Colombia, it was used by the government against political dissidents in the countryside) Right-Wing Paramilitaries (on the CIA's payroll and financed out of the coffers of companies such as BP, Shell, Occidental Petrolium and Exxon) are massacring civilians; and everyone has their hands in the super - lucrative drug trade. Most people don't know that American forces have been around for awhile. In the early 90's, a secret group code-named Centra Spike launch a covert operation to take out Pablo Escobar, a major coc aine lord who made the fatal mistake of giving money to the poor and talking # about American imperialism. The colombian government and the secret American unit go into buisness with Escobar's rival the Cali Cartel. Escobar is finally killed. The Cali Cartel's power is solidified and the flow of coc aine into the US only increases. Victims in the last 10 years alone of U.S financed civil war, 40,000 +

Fact of the matter is the TRUTH(not matter how I spell it) has been out there for years hiding in the carefully crafted demigod of American media.

Don't believe just read.
Black Gold Hot Gold Chap 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4

PS. Don't Kill the Messenger

Here is the article that goes intro great detail about the current mobilization.

US Masses Forces for War

What is so hard to believe about cold, hard, objective facts?

Think before you post.

Well JB, you've exceeded the diminished attention span of this poor hapless digital fool. An impressive list but no indication of which of these actions involve oil. How about the condensed list of those that were for oil like I originally implored?

Also, the link you provided in your second post appears not to work. How about another source? However, it isn't hard to discover we had 24,100 troops stationed out of the area at the end of the Gulf War. So now, you'd like us to believe that 241,000 troops are in the area, with is 17% of our current total armed forces personnel? And no one noticed?

A more than worthwhile read. It's odd, on this site of all places, that anything going against mass media doctored perceptions is so easily written off as conspiracy theories from the fringe. It just makes one document more...but then you have to deal with a whole other ball of wax; the " it's more than I can process/volume doesn't make you right" counter argument. *sigh*
As a tie in, I had posted a thread on the pre-hacked site regarding our use of a mercenary force in our current military engagements. Not the Soilder of Fortune comic book stuff, but the complete outsource of services to Bush/Cheney and the Carlyle Group's favoooorite companies - Dynacorp and Kellogg Brown & Root.
It effects deployment numbers in a big way. The Pentagon doesn't tally contractors deployed.
The "beef" of my aforementioned thread was simple: if you have 1000's of contractors maintaining services at remote bases, a job previously done by a soilder, that don't fall under the command auspice of the CO, or any other officer, when the proverbial she'ite hits the fan & that CO needs to call an 'All Hands' to repel the slaughtering hoard...what's going to happen? You don't have what would have been 1000's of armed & trained professional soilders to help you out. Instead, contractor, unarmed, not obligated to do anything but run.
Can you say Privatization Sucks? I thought you could!

By the way JB, in the future, please simply link to material, rather than using a very-large copy-and-paste as you did in this thread.

Thank You.

[Edited on 18-11-2002 by William]

FreeMason is right NWO. That bomb saved millions of lives.Well I do admit I do not like all the things our goverment does. But I do not go to the extent of damning them to mtorment in Hell.

if you didn't notice, US has always killed or labeled anyone going against the popular belief of Captilism AKA Facism, as Communist(a word they made up) as this would directly jeopardize the oil monopoly.

As for you math, it's wrong, re-read the respective article. I'm not going to bother to argue well established facts. All links are fine and working last time I checked.

I don't blame your skepticism. Seems very evident you've been a direct by-product of the Department of Education's Goals 2000 program(started and funded by none other than the Rockefeller family) , because you'd like to believe the sanitized, politically correct, Disney version of history that they propogate.

Peace to all.

Originally posted by JonBlaze
I don't blame your skepticism. Seems very evident you've been a direct by-product of the Department of Education's Goals 2000 program(started and funded by none other than the Rockefeller family) , because you'd like to believe the sanitized, politically correct, Disney version of history that they propogate.

Whoa!! Hold on there skippy!

Anyone that questions your version is wrong? You don't believe the "other" side (conspiracists) has it's whopping huge kettle of disinformation?

My skepticism is of all sources claiming absolute authority, truth, evidence, fact, and so on. And in reality, in my 20+ years of researching political conspiracy, secret societies, and alien phenomena I've seen generally more lies and deceit from those claiming anti-government stances, than I have seen from "the government" sources. Your Guerilla News Network has it's own agenda and with it's own version of revisionist history (built by drop-outs from MTV).





[Edited on 18-11-2002 by William]

I'm not going to even dignify that with a response.

TC> Sorry I missed your earlier reply in all the chatter.

I remember it being reported that Saddam was gassing his own people some years ago -- but there was some question as to how accurate the report was:
www.polyconomics.com...
(note: I'm not sure if that site is foofoo. I do, however, see a letter circulated from Jesse Helms that says the same thing:
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The incident (as I searched further) took place about 14 years ago (and yes, I really do believe the reports he used gas. What I don't believe is that he's stockpiled it all up and is getting ready to launch.

Frankly, I'm skeptical. I think we pretty well smushed him during the Gulf War and there haven't been reports of massive troop buildups. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any credible threats (he hasn't (yet) been accused of training Al Qaida members)

His attack range is very very limited, with little chance to improve it any time soon.

So I haven't seen any compelling reason to go marching in and shave his moustache. I think we'd be better off going after Osama.

Originally posted by Byrd
I think we'd be better off going after Osama.

Indeed. This feels too much like little junior Bush stepping in to finish daddy's business. We hear very little rhetoric about Osama these days from "official" sources. The familiar bad-guy is easier to find I suppose.

It's going to be easier after Saddam than Osama. At least we know what country Saddam is in.

Screw it. We're all gonna fry when they nuke us high, you will see after world war three.

Or, we will sit back and push a button and blow up some towle heads.