Ice Hockey: Is reality finally setting in for the Leafs?

Allow me to retort.

2 GP 1G 3A 4PTS


2003-04 SEASON: Finished 12th in Hart Trophy voting...Ranked first in the NHL in game winning goals (10), second in third period points (36), 12th in points, 13th in powerplay goals, 13th in shorthanded points, 15th in goals, 17th in powerplay points, 18th in assists and 21st in powerplay assists...Ranks first in career regular season NHL overtime goals and has scored the most overtime goals in a Maple Leafs uniform...Has scored more game winning goals than any other NHL player since the start of the 2000-01 season...Ranks first among players born and trained in Sweden in goals (465), first in points (1089), second in assists (624) and third in games played (1086)...Ranks first in Maple Leafs history in game winning goals (70), fourth in goals (330), fourth in points (755), fourth in assists (425) and ninth in games played (762)...Scored 20 or more goals for the 10th consecutive season in a Maple Leafs uniform setting a franchise record...Finished first on the team in games played (81), first in goals, first in assists, first in points, first in powerplay goals, first in shorthanded assists, first in shorthanded points, first in game winning goals, first in shots (226), first among team forwards in average ice time (19:52), first in multiple point games (24), second in powerplay assists, second in powerplay points, fourth in plus/minus (+11), fourth in multiple goal games and fourth in faceoff winning percentage (53.0%)...Played in the NHL All-Star Game registering two assists...Scored his 300th career goal (game winning goal, one assist) as a Maple Leaf October 25 vs. Washington...Played his 700th career game as a Maple Leaf and scored a goal November 18 at Calgary...Registered his 700th career point (game winning goal, one assist) as a Maple Leaf November 24 vs. Vancouver..Registered his 400th career assist as a Maple Leaf December 13 vs. the New York Rangers...Registered his 600th career NHL assist December 16 vs. Tampa Bay...Scored the game winning goal December 20 vs. Montreal...PLAYOFFS: Played nine PLAYOFF games collecting nine points (four goals, five assists) with eight penalty minutes...Ranked fifth in the NHL PLAYOFFs in faceoff winning percentage (60.0%)...Finished first on the team in points, first among team forwards in average ice time (18:24), first in faceoff winning percentage, second in goals (tie), second in assists (tie), second in game winning goals (1-tie), second in shooting percentage (21.1%-tie), second in powerplay assists (2-tie) and fourth in powerplay points (2-tie)...Ranks second in Maple Leafs PLAYOFF history in points (70), second in goals (32-tie), third in assists (38-tie).

WORLD CUP: Played four games for Sweden collecting five points (one goal, four assists)...Ranked sixth in the tournament in assists (tie) and 10th in points...Finished second on the team in assists (tie) and third in points (tie).

It must be nice to see Ottawa win a fight. took them long enough.

Sundin: Stanley Cups, 0

Winning a Stanley Cup is no way to determine who's a great player and who isn't. Exhibit A- This years hall of fame inductee, Cam Neely.

I am aware of that. I said he was a good player. All we are saying is that he hasn't got it done in the playoffs to bring the cup to Toronto. Perhaps a change of scenery for both parties would be better. It all comes down to if you measure success on stats or on championships. Certainly, stats do tell a bit of the story, but when it comes down to it, every fan should base success on the glory of being stanley cup champions.

Here's a little survey I got from the Habs website I thought might add to this discussion.



Who do you think will be the Canadiens’ toughest test this week?
42.61% (798)
Vincent Lecavalier and the Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning

8.12% (152)
Sidney Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins

49.28% (923)
Mats Sundin and the Toronto Maple Leafs

1873 Votes

Mats still has alot of good hockey years in him. Before this eye injury he missed 23 games total in 10 years or so. I don't think any star forward is as durable as Mats. He'd make any team better.

You've got good points. Toronto is way overdue for a Cup. However, words like overrated are best used when a career is over.

Originally posted by Karlsberg
Winning a Stanley Cup is no way to determine who's a great player and who isn't. Exhibit A- This years hall of fame inductee, Cam Neely.

Or the original Mario, one of the best hockey players I've ever seen, Gilbert Perrualt.

Damn, is that crickets I'm hearing all of a sudden?

Gilbert Perrault. Many would say "who?" All I am saying is that the majority of the great superstars win cups. Sundin is not a great superstar as Leaf fans or the Leafs media would like the rest of the hockey world to believe. That is all I am saying. Take it or leave it ( I am guessing you'll leave it).

Regarding that fan poll of the Canadiens website. I would say most people picked the Toronto game because they are aware of how hard it is for both teams to win in this rivalry. It seems that regardless of the talent on each team, when Toronto plays Montreal, its a close and exciting game. Let's hope that's the case this Saturday.
I'll be there and hope the Leafs fans, whom the majority are well behaved, do not start booing Yvan Cournoyer and Dickie Moore. Just like when they booed them back in October when the Habs announced what numbers would be retired. Let's hope everybody brings some class to the game.
Cheers

Originally posted by shaunc7
Gilbert Perrault. Many would say "who?" All I am saying is that the majority of the great superstars win cups. Sundin is not a great superstar as Leaf fans or the Leafs media would like the rest of the hockey world to believe.

Really? I would say that would be the pups then because anyone that saw Perrault play would remember his ability. For the younger crowd:

www.chidlovski.com...

Also this was a time that players didn't trade loyalty for money, unlike today AND unlike Sundin, I might say.

Im not sure what to think of the heated debate over the HABS/LAUGHS. (oops did I say that). Obviously a teams success is based on history as well as the future.

Based on history:
Montreal Stanley Cups = 24
Toronto Stanley Cups = 13

I admit that history and Stanley Cup victories do not decipher which organization is going to have a better season. Based on the fact that Toronto has lost so many key players, and Montreal has kept a good solid team together for a few years, while picking up additions such as Kovalev, I think the answer is quite clear. If you look at the stats to start the season. Montreal is 12-3-1 -- Toronto is 8-6-2. You may make the argument based on the fact that Montreal is hot, and Toronto is cold, but based on history and the season so far, who could possibly put together an intelligent argument based on the Leafs being the better team?

It's a good thing that isn't what we're debating.

Nice to see that even a Leafs fan has no argument when it comes to reality and facing the facts.

Strike, I totally agree with you. How about you post it as a new topic? It is sure to be very controversial.

Leaf reality must be setting in again as they defeat the Bruins 4-1, extending to a three game win streak. Lindros scored the game winner and added an assist. Mats Sundin scored his 333rd goal as a Leaf to put him into 3rd all time on the Leafs goal scoring list ahead of Ron Ellis (332) Vaive(299) and Frank Mahavolich(296). Coincidentally 56 goals behind Leafs all time goal leader Darryl Sittler and 32 behind number 2 Dave Keon.

And yet another solid performance by Tellqvist. He'll be starting next year.

Leafs PTS - 49
Cnds PTS - 42

Is reality finally setting in for Montreal?

Originally posted by sardion2000
Leafs PTS - 49
Cnds PTS - 42

Is reality finally setting in for Montreal?

And the Leafs are doing it with a pant load of injuries. What is it now? 6 or 7 straight wins?

Finally some reality for everyone. Leafs lose Lindros, Allison, Colaiacovo, Steen, just off the top of my head. Then go on a huge winning streak. Habs lose Kovalev and go in the toilet. I might also mention Ottawa's sudden lack of depth. Spezza, Alfredsson, and Havlat are out and now they're strarting to lose. Gotta keep in mind, Hockey is a marathon not a sprint.