Haven't the Neocons Gone Far Enough for You Yet?

The manufacturer of the 'cheap stuff' is always done by the 'lower levels' of society. The further our societies grow, the lower down these positions go until they seem menial to the people in our society that would usually do these jobs. (Could get on to the purpose of keeping these sectors existing, but never mind). The problem is that they are getting ahead of themselves. They think everyone in manufacturing is going to automatically switch to call centre jobs and sales. It's not going to happen for generations. I just feel sorry for the people these jobs are going to. I know without them they would have no jobs but these people are only happy to accept these jobs for a pittance because of that, without them they would have nothing. Picture how unhappy our people are in those jobs for the pay they get and the hours they work then double the hours and divide the pay by at least ten.
The plan we have for these people is to create a working class that is no longer a class, but a whole country, even a continent. That is their future.

Hmm ,I wasn't aware that Bloomberg was fluff.

Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d

Originally posted by Colonel
I remember when there were a bunch of jobs, millions of jobs......when Clinton was president.

Yeah but those jobs were mostly in the computer and internet industry were they not.I don't believe Clinton was responsible for that.If so then was he responsible for the tremendouos dive it took too?

22 million or so jobs JUST in the tech industry? You believe that? Or is it more likely that it spread to ALL sectors.

OK Colonel I will look into that some more.Thanks for the info.

LOL, I love your avatar!

Never mind that #, here comes Mongo!

There colonel goes again with his 'talking points' - geez, just post links you find of interest for now on, it's clear you can't think for yourself.

Bloomberg is not fluff.

free trade! free trade!

look at what the Bible says:

-Matthew
-Chapter 17
-King James Version

25: He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26: Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

Protect your children! Simple! Charge the imports tariffs so we can end the (unlawful, stupid) income tax!

and Colonel,

"I remember when there were a bunch of jobs, millions of jobs......when Clinton was president. "

get over your infatuation already, "Clinton, Clinton, i want to marry him..."



either way BOTH PARTYS are working towards making the Devil a very happy bastard. and i personally hate them both.

Fair trade is more important than free trade.

Originally posted by Bob88
I don't know guys, I guess when I hear the term neocon thrown around I usually associate it with propaganda. they aren't 'neo' really, more like paleo-cons.

Anyway, we've had great economic news of late. Look at yesterdays GDP news. Business spending is up, and employment, which is always the last indicator to kick in, is starting to pickup. (no ones even trying to say it's going to be a jobless recovery anymore).

I don't know what to make of this trade business, really. It does seem a little unfair, to the US, if we grant a country like Belize full access to our market, in return we get access to their tiny market. On the other hand, I don't see many of these countries growing their economies �or improving their quality of life - without access to markets like ours NOR do I see the US growing our economy if we want to manufacture shirts, toys, and other cheap stuff like that.


[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Bob88]

Neo Cons are very different from paleos. Paleo Conservatives are traditional conservative. Neo Cons are spawned from the left. Leo Strauss followers. BIG difference. Liberals wantin to get big and bad, if you will. That's not propaganda; it's the truth.

Here's some of what is going on right now - it ain't lookin' good:
Gold busted through the $400 per ounce level this week in Asia. A few reasons behind the recent gold run-up:
-- The dollar reached an all-time low against the euro this week
--Citibank unwound all of its existing long positions on the US Dollar this week (a major event--although you didn�t hear about this on the nightly news, I bet!!)
--Global concerns on US trade sanctions against Chinese textile imports
--Personal Bankruptcy filings jumped 7.8% in the 12 month period ending on September 30th



Don't get all happy about the economy. It's not doing nearly as well as this administration would have you believe. There's a presidential campaign around the corner, remember?
Bankruptcy is as common as the common cold. I remember when bankruptcy was a dirty word. NOT anymore.

NAFTA and GATT are BAD for U.S. business however you look at it. The loss of manufacturing jobs we've experienced is gonna come back and take a monstrous bite outta our azz one of these days.


[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

No administration is going to stop globalization. If you got a chance to watch the dems debate the other night on MSNBC this was so obvious. They all talk around the WTO and the IMF, only Dennis Kucinich has the guts or gall which ever you choose to actually address this as a problem that faces US citizens.

The fact is they have been warning us for years that the only way you will be able to get a high paying job in this country will be through education. You can't sit around and depend on the government not to evolve. These things can't be stopped. It's too late. One of America's largest employers is Walmart. I call it Wally World because it is fast becoming our world. America's reality. Low wage service jobs will replace high wage manufactoring jobs. We've seen this in the jobs that have been added in to this economy. They had the undersecretary of economics on Washington Journal and she down played it. People were constantly asking her the same question and she had no answers.

The Bushies don't have answer for this because it's just the way things are. Democrats won't be able to answer it either because this is the future. Get use to it.

Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem
Protect your children! Simple! Charge the imports tariffs so we can end the (unlawful, stupid) income tax!

...Actually, the income tax is illegally & unconstitutionally enforced upon the *individual citizen*. Employers are *not* legally required to withold income taxes & the average citizens who don't own a business aren't required to pay income taxes on their own paychecks (although the company itself that a citizen owns have to pay income tax).

However, they still try to *enforce* payment of individual income taxes...But the actual enforcement is becoming harder for them because people are beginning to see the *truth* for a change & make a stand for that truth: It seems that there's *some* justice within the legal system...This article is a good indicator that the federal government & the IRS have absolutely *no legal means* to enforce income taxes & the employer's witholding thereof.

You can get more general & specific info about the illegal income tax enforcement at the website where I linked the article.

As a bit of a side-note, BeingWatchedByThem, I like your new sig...It hits the nail right on the thumb (A phrase I reserve to describe the *painfully* obvious)...

Originally posted by Saphronia
The Bushies don't have answer for this because it's just the way things are. Democrats won't be able to answer it either because this is the future. Get use to it.

The sad thing is that is doesn't *have* to be that way when we can reform the system into something a lot more streamlined & efficient...The government & those who control it from the shadows have gotten too big for their britches & need to be taken down a few pegs.

The government belongs to the People, not the other way around; The corrupted system, as it is, sustains itself on trying to take ownership of everything, including the People. The current system doesn't work! Why continue to support it? Why not downsize the government & ensure that its powers don't overreach itself? The Constitution is as much a limitation on what the federal government should be authorized to do as well as an outline of its functions & duties.

I wish someone would pick up an economics book for once! Sapharinas the only one close to it!
ITS CALLED evolution guys our economy is changing.
Bill Clinton didnt "create" my Telco job and George Bush didnt "lose" it. Market forces at work people (and stupid Union senority rules)! Thats part of the problem Unions they have inflated the wages of employees to the point that importing is a better option for manufactorers! But thats not something that can be changed now so you have to do what I have done . Go back to school learn a new skill and start your own business! 80% of all jobs are small business jobs.
Lets play with your ideas here for a second lets say that ALL manufacturing jobs go over seas now all of us are forced to get lower paying jobs therefore we have less income. Therefore we can afford to buy the very items being made overseas. What happens?.............
The prices fall as the prices fall it no longer is profitable to build products over seas so the factories are moved back to the US and you can go from fliping burgers to turning screws!
Bottom line is you cant protect the economy in a free society! Now under communism you can! Any effort to fix our economy should be aimed at breaking China from under its Commie rule then there markets would open up to our goods!

The big problem, Grenadier, is that the US economy has been based upon "market forces"...That's the main fault with it in the first place. Only about 10% of the "currency", which I accurately describe as "corporate scrip", in circulation has anything of real value to back it up.

You speak of "market forces" like it was a living entity that grows, shrinks & evolves on its own momentum...News flash is that is is *not* a living entity of any sort & its fluctuations are dependant upon the actions of a small minority of of people who just happen to be greedy.

We need to get back on an economic base with something *solid*, like the GNP, gold or silver...*Something...Anything* with some real *value* under it. This is the goal of organizations like NESARA.


[Edited on 28-11-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

I agree we should get back to a gold standared It all went to hell after Wilson and FDR ! I do think maket Forces are a living breathing thing dont fall into the old class warfare trap calling it greed! I dont buy that. True there are Greedy people and some of those people run big Corporations but its too easy to lump businesses together and call them "evil greedy rich". I think the average man has more of an effect on the economy than people think because of what you said. Our currency is based on consumer confidence Its only worth what we think its worth! Hell of a way to run a circus!

That's the whole point...Since our economy is only backed up to about 10% of the amount of "scrip" in circulation, the economy is, in itself, 90% lie. If the economy is only worth what we "think" it's worth, then there's a lot of people in influential places that have too much control over what we're "thinking" that it's worth...

Do you see where the lie is now?

I can remember when Clinton was president and he took credit for all the good times that resulted from Reagans policies.

I can remember when Clinton's tie to the Chinese were revealed and how he sold out the US.

Funny how two people can see history differently.

The Neo: You aren't even american so what are you babbling about. You don't know what it was like to live under Reagan or Clinton. NAFTA made it worse, no doubt, but this problem has nothing to do with who is in the white house. It's all about corporations not wanting to pay a decent wage to its workers.

Look into what the autoworkers and miners had to go through to unionize in this country. They want the larger american market, but they don't want the enviromental regulations and worker protections. They fight workers organizing in Mexico and South America by black listing those that try to form unions. They pay them less than 80 cents for a ten hour work day in some textile factories and charge $40 dollars a shirt back here in the US. This is all about corporate greed. And, I believe all politicans are in the pocket of corporations. That is why nothing will change no matter who is in the whitehouse. The american people have educate themselves.

Saph,

funny thing but I know American history better than most Americans and I also know Canadian history and history about OTHER countries too.

maybe you are the one babbling on....

Neo: I'll play your little American History game. What are the reforms that Reagan instituted that Clinton gets credit for? Because maybe I didn't understand what was happening in my own country. Maybe you truly know more than "most americans". Here's your chance to flaunt your knowledge.

M-D, why do you make it sound as if Bush is a conservative? You are truly clueless about conservatism, aren't you?

I'm a conservative. He talks like a conservative. He makes some decisions like a conservative, but makes more like a democrat. I don't care if he does it to take away democratic leverage, its still the same thing as being a democrat.
He's not a conservative.