If Being Gay is alright in the eyes of God then.....

Originally posted by qrios
How' bout the fact that it is just plain unnatural according to the laws of nature?

Is that so?

Homosexuality Observed in Animals

So does that mean it's more 'natural' now that you know birds, swans, whales, or (insert your favorite animal here!) partake in homosexual activities?

As for the whole debate, as to whether you are 'born' gay, or 'conditioned' to be gay, is there really a difference? Either way it basically takes free will out the subject, doesn't it? All I know is that it's definitely no choice, me being gay. Either I was born this way, or 'conditioned' this way at a point in my life where I had no say in it anyway. Judging by the fact that I was raised in a pretty anti-homosexual, very Republican, very conservative household, with no other gay members of my family, and really never knowing any openly gay people, I would say that it is not simply a conditioned thing. Maybe it's somewhat of both, I (like everyone else) really have no idea.

Originally posted by Scat
As for homosexuality, some say they are born gay. Honestly, I dont think we are "born" straight or gay. Whatever is shown as good, normal, or right whenever we are young is what we think of as the norm. it is from that standard that we either accept or rebel. People become straight or gay, they are born neither.

Again, read what I said above. Being gay definitely wasn't ever shown to me as being the norm. In all actuality, I don't think I've EVER met another openly gay person in real life (yes, I'm still in the closet). My family was never really accepting of gay people. Of course, growing up in school it wasn't like people were gay friendly there either. So where exactly would I have picked up on that being gay is ok, and that "hey, I should be gay too!"? It wasn't a rebelious thing either, since I was never really like that as a kid, and I could think of alot of less painful ways to rebel than 'choosing' to be gay

Originally posted by Scat
What better way to make life EASIER? Gay men are less common, so its much eaiser to get involved with someone without competition.

Make life easier for who, the straight guys? I have no problem getting women. I've had more girlfriends than most of my straight guy friends. It would be MUCH easier to just 'play it straight.' It's much more difficult to find someone who's gay that I'm attracted to (that's one of the main reasons I'm still in the closet, there's never been anyone good enough for me to want to come out of it I guess). I don't want to use a stereotype, but really, how many gay guys have you seen that have trouble finding women? Either way, it would be MUCH easier to simply snap my fingers and turn straight. So that theory doesn't fly with me.

Hamilton; you and I both, you and I both. I too was raised in a Republican environment as well as Catholic. Being gay was shown as unnatural and perverted. And becoming what I am was not rebellion. Hell it wasn't even a choice. All I can say is my life is much harder after coming out.

[edit on 1-7-2004 by iceofspades]

My familily is also Republican and Catholic, many many being 50-80.. lots of great aunts and uncles.. etc.. with a totaly old world view.

They however took it fine. Not like it's a topic for dinner conversation, it's basically ignored, and everything is just peachy.

My immediate family can't really ignore it and they do a good job of being supportive, but I know it bugs some of them.

I'm very lucky I don't have to hide anything, I would imagine that would quite a feat to have to pull off.

Trying post again.. been having probs posting...

In reference to my statement on "natural" behaviour, I meant tosay that I have yet to see my 2 male dogs have puppies - whether they are homosexual or not...

in response to blackjackels post which stated these words: "To answer your question No gay's should not be persecuted because they differ from Christian views. However you tell me what makes it ok to be gay and why only humans choose to be gay?

If this is something that is born into humans wouldn't you think that it could happen to some other animals on the face of the planet since we are all just organisms. But wait a minute there has never been a documented case of a gay animal. Why? because animals cannot make decisions they just go on instinct and that instinct tells them to reproduce ironically enough the same thing that human instincts tell us. It all comes down to human choice not genes."


that is in correct, many animals in this world are gay accually. in a zoo in newyork, tyhere are a set of gay penguins. when in a tank with other penguins they refused to mate. they were always neer each otiher and they tried to mate. they would constantly get rocks and pretend they were eggs, the penguins were then given an egg and they cared for it.

therefore you are wrong.

also, a child in birth can ahve too much or too little estrogen, if a female has too little, it results in a lesbian child. if a male has too much, the result will be a gay child. the effects do not take into effect UNTIL puberty. the child will really not know anything until they have sexually matured. so dont be a #ing asshat.



animal homosexually is very common.

[edit on 4-7-2004 by b0b]

Originally posted by b0b


also, a child in birth can ahve too much or too little estrogen, if a female has too little, it results in a lesbian child. if a male has too much, the result will be a gay child. the effects do not take into effect UNTIL puberty. the child will really not know anything until they have sexually matured. so dont be a #ing asshat.


[edit on 4-7-2004 by b0b]

You seriously said that? I thought I should let you know that it is not good for your reputation to be a total ass. I will wait to rebut when you supply me with some good hard scientific evidence of your holed theory.

[edit on 4-7-2004 by iceofspades]

Ice of spades, even though his theory sounds kinda simplistic and is not supported by hard proof, it may very well be true that homosexuality or bisexuality is result of too much or not enough of the right hormones in the early processes of an embryo developping into a baby.

I don't understand why such a theory upsets you like this, since it would prove that homosexuality/bisexuality is not a choice, neither a lifestyle, but merely a way of being born.
Which is what it is...

Originally posted by Jakko


I don't understand why such a theory upsets you like this, since it would prove that homosexuality/bisexuality is not a choice, neither a lifestyle, but merely a way of being born.

Well I don't know if it is just me but that definition made it sound like he was making it out to be some sort of disorder. I interpreted his post as a testament to backwards thinking and responded as such. Perhaps I was wrong.

Originally posted by iceofspades

Originally posted by Jakko


I don't understand why such a theory upsets you like this, since it would prove that homosexuality/bisexuality is not a choice, neither a lifestyle, but merely a way of being born.

Well I don't know if it is just me but that definition made it sound like he was making it out to be some sort of disorder. I interpreted his post as a testament to backwards thinking and responded as such. Perhaps I was wrong.

there are hoples in the theory and there are some parts even i do not fulyl beleive, and i know it is not a disorder. sorry if i offended you. i myself am gay, so dont think i would make it sound like a disorder on purpose.

i do beleive there is some choice in it, and if i wanted to i could be straight, but i dont want too.

But isn't it a disorder then, in your opinion?
If it's not like the rest, not "normal" and result of a proces in which something is "wrong", wouldn't the right word be a disorder?

In the end, does it matter wether it's result of something going "wrong" or something going "different"?
It's hard to define what's wrong in the processes of a humans body, especially in the proces of the creation of a humans body.
But it seems clear that it's "different".
This does not mean it is wrong, because people who are born disabled are not "wrong" either.

I hope you understand my point. It seems obvious to me that homosexuality is not "normal", just like having 2 differently colored eyes is not "normal" either. But since you can't help how you are born, and we can not (yet) change to what gender you feel attracted, why not just make the best out of it together?

[edit on 4-7-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by b0b


there are hoples in the theory and there are some parts even i do not fulyl beleive, and i know it is not a disorder. sorry if i offended you. i myself am gay, so dont think i would make it sound like a disorder on purpose.

Please accept my apologies. I'm sorry if I hurt you in any way.

Originally posted by Jakko

It seems obvious to me that homosexuality is not "normal", just like having 2 differently colored eyes is not "normal" either. But since you can't help how you are born, and we can not (yet) change to what gender you feel attracted, why not just make the best out of it together?

[edit on 4-7-2004 by Jakko]

I think you bring up a good point, though understandably extremely sensitive. As long as there's still such intolerance about homosexuality, using words like "disorder" or "not normal" could be damaging to the gay community. Even though one might have the best intentions just trying to explain this sexual preference, it could easily be used by the not so liberal people as an excuse for gay bashing.

First off...who any of you are and what any of you are doesn't matter to me. Some very good points were brought out in this discussion. The Pro's and Con's of who believes in the Bible or a Higher Power... need more debate.
The fact that the FDA has added hormone products to food and that this could be responsible for many attributes of people since then, is a very wise and well proved statement.
Wrong is wrong and the proof of how and what is wrong will come at the end of our life's. Yes, I believe in my Heavenly Father and NO ONE has to use science to try and prove me wrong. Simply because, what I feel in my heart, mind and soul... make it a personal thing and MAN can't change or break this bond.
To me homosexuals are whimpering around about how they are treated as individuals and need to take a close look at what they are doing to themselves by making such a show of things.
Nope, it ain't NATURAL! Woman was made from man and for man and all of the other preferences are just that, your own preference!
So, if and when you seek to prove you are right... always remember... you first have to prove someone else is wrong and just stop and wonder about how and when any law of nature has been changed by man. It can't be and it ain't never.
When you seek seclusion, one finds the conclusion, that most hide from what they know is REALLY wrong!