Why Such Hate?

Originally posted by yeahright
I've said this before and I'm sure I'll say it again: I'm all about the "maybe". Nothing's 100% sure, but there are degrees of certainty. There's no guarantee I'll make it to work every day without being killed, but I'm sure enough I won't to bet my life on it.

I agree. I have said numerous times that we can't know anything with any degre of certainty.

quote: Originally posted by Sun Matrix
SpeakerofCrock

You know, I don't know or care what causes you to resort to such childish name-twisting, but it really has no reflection whatsoever on SOT. It only shows your maturity level... I'm not on anyone's 'side' here, but that's just lame.

Benevolent, you are right that such statements are childish. However, I have come to expect such comments from certain posters here. They cannot rebuke what I have to say, so they revert to personal attacks upon my character.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by yeahright
My mother passed away a couple of years ago. I'm quite sure she loved me. That's a factual truth, to me. But I can't prove it to you, so my factual truth in this case is a belief from your perspective.

But I don't have a belief that is contrary to that. I also believe she loved you so there's no contention. It's only when there are 2 contrary beliefs (belief/disbelief in God, for example) that the defensiveness of one's beliefs comes into play.

I didn't know there was a whole study about this! Interesting!

Yeahright, actually it can be proven that your mother loved you. Via the fact that she was there for you and raised you, one can deduct that she loved you.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Yeahright, actually it can be proven that your mother loved you. Via the fact that she was there for you and raised you, one can deduct that she loved you.

I hope this isn't off-topic and I won't pursue this point beyond this post, but SoT, I disagree. It proves nothing to an observer or third party, because you only have my report to go on. Which is in reality nothing more than my belief based upon my experience. Now of course, you can take it as "proof", but you can't fault someone else for not accepting it as "proof". Because it isn't.

A fact is an indisputable truth. It is a concept whose truth can be proved.

The whole epistemology thing is a very complex subject which has had volumes and volumes written about it. Then you get into logic and semantics and a variety of other things which all tie in.

Here's an interesting perspective from a Unitarian Universalist minister who calls herself a "militant agnostic". For some reason, that conjures up images of upper middle class WASPS burning a question mark in someone's yard but...

anyway worth a read. IMHO.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Benevolent, you are right that such statements are childish. However, I have come to expect such comments from certain posters here. They cannot rebuke what I have to say, so they revert to personal attacks upon my character.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Keep up the humor. By the way, WHY SO MUCH HATE?

Originally posted by yeahright
"militant agnostic". For some reason, that conjures up images of upper middle class WASPS burning a question mark in someone's yard but...

Perfectly said! I love the visual.

Thanks for the perspective. Interesting information, as always.

Yeahright, very good link indeed. It fits into my perspective in the sense of its claim that we cannot know anything with any degree of certainty. We may say, "Well, I know this or I know that." But do we really? Do we even know, with any certainty that anything is real? I don't think so. Our senses tell us that everything that we see,touch,hear and smell are real. However, our senses are fooled all of the time.

This thread is very well expressed, SpeakerOfTruth. I can't say that you do, indeed, speak the truth or not, being as I disagree with you on some things, but I agree with you on other things and it's very upsetting the way anyone that even remotely supports Christian ideology is shut down and ridiculed on this forum.

I'm all for an open exchange of ideas, and for disagreement, but ATS doesn't seem to have a balance anymore. It's rather sad that people are more accepting of aliens, UFOs, purple unicorns and ancient technology than they are of something so simple as Christianity. For that matter, notice that there isn't so much a bias against religion in general as there is specifically against Christians . . .

Well,Southern, I am going to tell you like I tell many others, my moniker is only that, a moniker. I make no claims of being in tune with things that everyone else is not, nor do I make a claim to ultimately know the truth. My moniker is more of a reference to my avatar than it is to myself.

Most likely,you are going to,just like you do with everyone else, agree with me sometimes and disagree with me on other occasions. I wouldn't expect anymore or less. In all reality, due to my unorthodox view of things, I would expect most to disagree with me more often than they agree. That is just my "cross" to bear.

You are right,Southern, in your assessment that any formof Christian spirituality does seem to be quelled by some posters. However, we are each on our own journeys and we each have our own view, so... we just have to accept it.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by southern_cross3
This thread is very well expressed, SpeakerOfTruth. I can't say that you do, indeed, speak the truth or not, being as I disagree with you on some things, but I agree with you on other things and it's very upsetting the way anyone that even remotely supports Christian ideology is shut down and ridiculed on this forum.

Hmmm for hundreds of years christianity shut down (read 'killed') and ridiculed (read imprisoned, tortured) other ways of life and enforced this christian ideology on the world at large - and you wonder why people are fighting back!!

I'm all for an open exchange of ideas,

An exchange of ideas, Yes. Being told that your wrong and that your a sinner, going to hell etc is not an exchange of ideas but the usual christian enforcement of the ideology. I for one would welcome discussion and debate which is nigh on impossible with religionites

It's rather sad that people are more accepting of aliens, UFOs, purple unicorns and ancient technology than they are of something so simple as Christianity. For that matter, notice that there isn't so much a bias against religion in general as there is specifically against Christians . . .

Doesnt that show you something!!! Most people dont really believe in a deity, its just for show - depending on where you live in the world i.e The USA has a lot of devoted christians while western europe has christians (just not as devoted or as bothered). Christianity is becoming a dying religion in many parts and long may it continue to do so.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
Hmmm for hundreds of years christianity shut down (read 'killed') and ridiculed (read imprisoned, tortured) other ways of life and enforced this christian ideology on the world at large

Nope, don't blame that on Christianity. Blame that on some misguided power mad individuals who didn't have a clue about Christianity other than using a seat of religious power for their own evil ends. More like a "false flag" operation.

Originally posted by shihulud
- and you wonder why people are fighting back!!

Just make sure you're fighting back against the right enemy. >HINT< It's not Christianity.

Originally posted by shihulud
Being told that your wrong and that your a sinner, going to hell etc is not an exchange of ideas but the usual christian enforcement of the ideology.

I too, believe that there are zealots out there who with the best of intentions, end up being their own worst enemy. And the worst posible advocates for what they're trying to espouse. BTW you know what they say about the "road to hell" don't you? What it's paved with?

Originally posted by shihulud
Christianity is becoming a dying religion in many parts and long may it continue to do so.

Would it surprise you to learn I agree with you? Only what you call "Christianity" I call "false doctrine".

Originally posted by yeahright
[Would it surprise you to learn I agree with you? Only what you call "Christianity" I call "false doctrine".

Be careful there,yeahright. You just opened up the door for someone to say, "Well of course, Christianity is a false doctrine."

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Be careful there,yeahright. You just opened up the door for someone to say, "Well of course, Christianity is a false doctrine."

I don't think they need me to open the door. Anyone so inclined can walk through that door whenever they please, as has been thoroughly demonstrated.

I understand what you mean, but I'll stand by my point. It isn't "Christianity" that most people have an issue with, it's a misguided view of what they believe "Christianity" to be.

And to your topic, "Why such hate?", I think much of it can be laid right at the feet of self-professed Christians (not that there's any other kind). We're all flawed. It's a human condition. No one wants to hear from anyone else that they're doomed or condemned, and rightly so. I'll give my opinion when asked, but people need to come to their own conclusions, and I know you agree with that.

It takes a fair amount of thought and study, for which one has to be motivated (inspired?) to undertake. You either are, or aren't. Some will get it, some won't. Many (but not all) of the biggest naysayers are the ones that have nothing more to go on than a third hand preconcieved notion about Christianity. They have never, and likely will never, read the Bible and attempt to see what is really contained therein.

But to think the ones that don't get it will be condemned to some everlasting torment is just... flawed.

Christianity is not a false doctrine. While I believe that it's broader than some might believe, I also believe it's much more narrow than many believe, and there is an absolute right or wrong. Hell is a real place, and those who do wrong will suffer there for eternity.

Don't even begin to insinuate that because Europe is practically throwing away Christianity that this is a path to enlightenment. With the creation of the European Union and the continued secularization, your continent is speeding us towards the End Times and fulfilling prophecy at a ridiculous pace.

southern_cross, religion is about faith
you can never be 100% sure on matters of faith
therefore stating anything about religious doctrine is arrogant to begin with

now, saying that religion outside of the context of doctrine is wrong because you do not believe in a diety because it has no evidence to support the existence of the divine, that's different
^tacked that on just in case someone was going to bring some stuff up about my atheistic tendencies

anyway, i just find it ridiculous when people start calling doctrines false in the context of faith

you're all just going with what you think is the best guess (and if you disagree with me kinglizard, you are still guessing, because your evidence is subjective, i'm not questioning your credibility, just the general reliability of human perception)