Can Fetzer be trusted?

Read this:

www.scholarsfor911truth.org...

Steven Jones Responds to the Three Stooges

Jim Fetzer casts aspersions on my research regarding the use of thermates at the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001

which is fine as long as he provides serious technical objections, which he has not done...

At the same time, JF is promoting on the web site notions that energy-beams from WTC 7 or from space knocked the Towers down.

Steve Jones and Kevin Ryan have withdrawn from Scholars for Truth. Looking honestly at this it looks suspicious. I re-call also that Jim Hoffman has questioned Fetzer.

By doing what Fetzer is doing, it brings the whole 'Truth' movement into the 'Fringe' movement.

I mean honestly how many people are going to accept ray beams from bldg7?

This is exactly what a disinfo agent would do, join the enemy then undermine them with something.

The new group Steve Jones heads is this
www.journalof911studies.org...

They seem right off the bat to have a much more proffesional approach, a lot more in-depth articles, 'less fluff and more substance' in my view.

Any thoughts on this?

[edit on 13-12-2006 by talisman]

This is ridiculous and childish behaviour, especially on Jim Fetzer's part.

Fetzer's response: A classic example of the fallacy of accent occurs when the accused claims, "I didn't kill him. I paid someone else to do the shooting!" I have reams of evidence from the forum that Steve was patiently explaining to others how they could proceed to take control of the web site and even the society from me. He wants you to ignore his actual conduct, which was offensive, on the ground that he was merely offering advice about how it could be done and not pursuing power for himself...

These assclowns are making a mockery of the 9/11 Truth movement. Since when did this become about your own personal standing and stature within the community? The only purpose of this movement should be to find the truth, nothing else.

Also, it is one thing to propose an alternative theory on how the buildings collapsed (ray beams from space, etc), I am all open to new ideas, but new theories must fit the evidence, not the other way around. Sure, maybe (maybe) such beam technology exists today, but unless there are several pieces of evidence that supports this claim this should remain nothing but a distant possibility and their time should be spent trying to prove that which there sufficient evidence for. They can speculate all they want 'on their own time', but brining up all these theories that are really “far out there” without any evidence at all is simply hurtful to the movement. I don’t think Jim Fetzer is a government hired agent, but rather a self absorbed idiot.

So basically the core of the Scholars of Truth are now splitting with Jim Fetzer, the self absorbed assclown on one side and Steven E. Jones, a ‘scientist’ whom believes Jesus (imaginary friend) visited the Americas and even has tried to compile “evidence” for this. I don’t really want to be associated with either one of them, my self.

Well many mormons (not my religion) are honest people, I don't think Steve Jones and his religious beliefs have anything to do with this. In the end we must judge his hypothesis which is based on science, he tries to use science to back some of what he is saying.

If Steve Jones has his theory shot down(on the WTC towers), it won't matter due to the fact there is one element that he has been bringing to the table again and again, namely Bld 7 and its demise. That can't be shot down in my view it was a clear example of a demolished building.

But with Fetzer, with Ray Beams from outer space or from Bldg 7. I agree if there is evidence show it, I am open minded. But that is just it, there is NO evidence for this. There might be some unexplained things that happened that day but certainly not what he is offering. That is just pure speculation.

If Fetzer and Ray Beams get shot down, well in my view there is tremendous damage done to the 9/11 movement. I think he knows the majority of americans are not going to take seriously Weapons from Space being used on the TWin Towers.

If evidence in his mind points to 'weapons from space' or anything like that then I think the evidence also points toward his direction. Namely he is purposely spilling Dis-Info.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by talisman]

[edit on 13-12-2006 by talisman]

Originally posted by talisman
Well many mormons (not my religion) are honest people, I don't think Steve Jones and his religious beliefs have anything to do with this. In the end we must judge his hypothesis which is based on science, he tries to use science to back some of what he is saying.

Well, his research on WTC may not in any way be impacted by his religion, and in all honesty I have not seen any signs of this either. But it is still a big concern when he has presented a "scientific paper" in the past which claims to offer evidence for Jesus Christ visiting the Americas. This makes me worried he even knows what evidence is or that he may create evidence that supports his 'thermate' theory, for instance.

I have trouble trusting someone that is so gullible that they'll actually believe and follow what is written in the Book of Mormon (or the Bible for that matter, but the Book of Mormon is way worse). In fact I don't really understand how he can reconzile his education as a scientist and his religious views.

Of course, I will still read and evaluate what he presents with an open mind, but whenever something is detailed that is above my own level of understanding I will be very sceptical and refuse to take his word alone.

Originally posted by talisman
If Steve Jones has his theory shot down(on the WTC towers), it won't matter due to the fact there is one element that he has been bringing to the table again and again, namely Bld 7 and its demise. That can't be shot down in my view it was a clear example of a demolished building.

I agree.

Originally posted by talisman
But with Fetzer, with Ray Beams from outer space or from Bldg 7. I agree if there is evidence show it, I am open minded. But that is just it, there is NO evidence for this. There might be some unexplained things that happened that day but certainly not what he is offering. That is just pure speculation.

If Fetzer and Ray Beams get shot down, well in my view there is tremendous damage done to the 9/11 movement. I think he knows the majority of americans are not going to take seriously Weapons from Space being used on the TWin Towers.

If evidence in his mind points to 'weapons from space' or anything like that then I think the evidence also points toward his direction. Namely he is purposely spilling Dis-Info.

I agree, except I really don't think Fetzer is a "dis-info agent". His personality does not fit that description imho. and he speaks with such passion and rage that I really doubt this. I think he simply has his head up his ass.

To be quite honest, I don't see the big deal at all in this.

In every movement, there is the far extremes, and this happens to be one. The "founding fathers" of the movement (Jones, Fetzer, etc. etc.) have decided to part ways, and this shouldn't make the movement weaker... Rather, I feel this will make it stronger.

Personally, my feeling is that any press is good press, and no matter whether we hear about Fetzer's UFO beams or Jones' thermate/thermite, it's still getting press to the movement.

I understand where people may be worried about the "disinfo agent" idea, but quite honestly, Aren't we stronger than this? Stronger than Fetzer? (if he is this "agent" sort) I say we are. Actually, I know we are. I've seen a lot of dedicated people to this movement change their livelyhood for their beliefs on 9|11 - and that's beyond honorable.

Let's just continue to investigate what has happened, and continue to rally in support of what we believe.

There are a lot of rallies in the next week or so, all over the country, so if you can make it out - please go. Make a positive impact on the community and get involved - speak about what you feel, act on what you feel. The 9|11 Truth Movement has just begun, and will continue, until we get the answers to questions that we deserve to know, the families deserve to know, and the rest of the world deserves to know.


.... and so ends my "Braveheart" speach of sort.

Originally posted by talisman
But with Fetzer, with Ray Beams from outer space or from Bldg 7. I agree if there is evidence show it, I am open minded. But that is just it, there is NO evidence for this.

Right, and what makes it all so much worse is that Fetzer claims that there is irrefutable proof that Wood is correct. Fetzer seems to me an idiot on the more technical issues.

Can you trust him? Not with science.

This is a series of emails back in early 2001 and it has to do with Jim Fetzer and disinformation regarding JFK, he always is accusing others of 'Disinfo'.

www.jfk-info.com...

I would think a serious researcher of the case would be embarrassed NOT to be on Fetzer's "disinformation" list.

By 1996, I had lost all faith in [Fetzer's] integrity. He is a parasite, not a researcher. He tried to ride the medical evidence to fame, but was frustrated by his inability to use Harrison Livingstone. He went on to find others more easily manipulated, and picked Zapruder alteration as his new "cause."

For all of his talk of science, he told one researcher that he begins by deciding what is the truth, and then marshals evidence (selectively) to support that "truth." This is the opposite of scientific method. In my opinion, Fetzer is clearly a quack, using the language of his field to advance fraudulent premises.

It seems reallys suspicious to me. Even *IF* Fetzer and Wood are correct, couldn't they just keep it to themselves until more serious researchers climbed on board and waited for more 'serious' evidence?


Also if your an established Scientist are you really going to JOIN with someone who says RAY BEAMS from BLDG 7 shot the towers down?

If anything this might have hurt the serious minded researchers who want to join and research this. This is my worry that the people who really do have the brains to figure out what happened might be scared off.

This really seems like an attempt to scare off serious minded scientists. Now it seems to me that Morgan Reynolds is still working for George Bush.

The timing of this seems really suspect.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by talisman]

[edit on 14-12-2006 by talisman]

I think if you're serious about putting the "inside job" case, you make damn sure that everything you say is absolutely irrefutable, and pick the most cautious hypothesis. It's all too easy for the gatekeepers to pour scorn, and the job of the disinfo people is to make it even easier, by picking ludicrous ideas to promote.

The likelihood is that we'll never know for sure what happened anyway (sorry for the pessimistic prognosis, but look at the JFK thing) and if anyone wants action, be it another, more independent investigation, impeachment or whatever, the case has to be as strong and simple as possible. Idiot-proof, in fact. With people running around screaming about pods and mini-nukes and scalar beam weapons (and I don't rule them out, but I don't think them probable either) the cause isn't helped.

I don't know what Fetzer is thinking, but by making a new and even more wild theory without backing it up with any substance, he is doing more harm than good and needs to be ignored.

Just because some may find it hard to imagine explosives planted throughout the WTC buildings doesn't mean that an even less plausible demolition technique should be suspected.

It suprised me to find out Jones hasnt submitted his thermite/thermate paper for academic peer review. listen to the question and answer something aint right.

Alex Floum needs to be mentioned, so there it is.

lastly Jones could very well be a mole;

www.ricksiegel.com...

for people who are more intrigued

its a bit of a read but very interesting stuff

Tell you what, though.... Fetzer actually gives a good performance in this video. He makes a couple of slips, but he gets a few good bullet points over, despite some pressure from the host, whose summing-up is pure propaganda.

If this is true about Fetzer then this is 100% proof that he's no more part of the 911 movement. He changed the sides... He discredits the "unofficial" 911 story by adding childish and outrageous theories.