UK schools get guide to Islam

Source:www.dawn.com...

I live in the US.Is this really happening? Do they do the same for Christianity? Here in the US the ninth court of appeals allows islam taught in schools.What a mess.

www.thomasmore.org...

[edit on 10-12-2006 by rdang]

Reading what that pack contains, I think it is WAY over the top. The MCB cite that out-of-date or inaccurate books were the reason, so why not just replace them? Sending out clothing, prayer mats, compasses etc just seems like an attempt at conversion.

And to answer your question, I do not believe the CoE do this. In fact, I attended a CoE school when I moved from Germany to England in 1991 and we rarely touched on Christianity.

The only overtly Christian thing we did was Hymn practice and a prayer every morning, but then, I have found that to be common in any school across England. We did have Hindu's in our school too and they were not required to pray or attend Hymn practice if the parents so chose.

I might add that it is the Islamisation of many schools in my area that are forcing me to look elsewhere for my daughters education. Some schools are 90% Muslim, even the teachers, all decked out in hijabs and whatnot. I do not want my daughter in that environment.

Well, there's no guarantee this won't be 'recalled' - recently a group called Truth In Science sent an information pack to science teachers in the UK which advocated the teaching of intelligent design over Darwinism. The government - and also the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats - have told teachers not to use this as it doesn't fall into the national curriculum. If intelligent design is to be taught, it should be done in religious education classes.

Personally, I don't see much harm in this. I know when I was at primary school (about a decade ago) we spent time looking at a number of different faiths, their ideas and some alternative views (atheism, agnosticism, the scientific standpoint etc.) which, looking back, was actually a good way to do things because it allowed you to think for yourself and make up your own mind whilst having at least a basic knowledge of each major religion (Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Sikhism and so forth). If the use of this simply forms part of a lesson about Islam then I don't think there's any harm being done. Considering what a large part Islam has played in the world over the last few years, it could even be seen as a good thing that kids are being told what the real faith is really like as. It doesn't sound nearly as bad as what rdang posted on the Thomas More site, anyway

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Ste2652]

Originally posted by Ste2652

Personally, I don't see much harm in this. I know when I was at primary school (about a decade ago) we spent time looking at a number of different faiths, their ideas and some alternative views (atheism, agnosticism, the scientific standpoint etc.) which, looking back, was actually a good way to do things because it allowed you to think for yourself and make up your own mind whilst having at least a basic knowledge of each major religion (Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Sikhism and so forth). If the use of this simply forms part of a lesson about Islam then I don't think there's any harm being done. Considering what a large part Islam has played in the world over the last few years, it could even be seen as a good thing that kids are being told what the real faith is really like as.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Ste2652]

Agreed! I too went to schools that taught us about most religions and don't see the harm in it being taught in schools now, especially today. It certainly helps the children to understand what other cultures and religions are about.

I remember 'RE' (religious education....sometimes called RI, religious instruction) at school 30yrs ago.
On some occasions the school also turned out to the local Christian Church too....never-mind all that being packed to 'Sunday School'.

That was all overtly and almost exclusively a focus on the Christian religion, all about Christianity and practically zero about anything else - other than a passing mention of Judaism because of the obvious connection.

But I know times have changed and the focus is, I'm pleased to learn, much more about learning about different faiths and various religious practices around the globe (even differing Christins practices), I know this is true of even the C of E Church schools and also friends who send their kids to a (RC) Church school tell me so.

But at heart this is just the same old debate between ignorance and information.....with a topical dark hint of scary Islam.

Is more information a threat or a begining of indoctrination or is it better to keep children ignorant of such things and indoctrinate them in faiths 'we' approve of and/or claim to understand?
I quite like the idea of leaving them alone to make up their own minds on it all when they're old enough (teach them about the various religions of the world by all means but I don't favour forcing them into any particular one, myself).
That should be their own private personal affair or not, as they prefer to choose.

I just don't see anything threatening about information and awareness of other faiths (of which Islam is just one).

In fact if it were a school in my area I'd be inclined to thank those supplying this pack (for free) for helping to educate my kids and rid them of some of the ignorance so clearly at large about Islam.....

......here in NI we're still stuck trying to educate each other about the Protestant and Roman Catholic faiths and how each should not be scary to the other.
Count yourselves lucky you've at least moved some ways on from the 17th century, unlike (sadly all too many of) us here in NI!

This information pack referred to in the dawn.com link is nothing more than an aid to learning in the classroom IMO -
it contains a headscarf, a prayer mat, a prayer cap, sacred Ihram clothing worn during the pilgrimage to Makkah, a poster of the Muslim prophets and a compass to locate the direction of Makkah.

I see absolutely no reason for anyone to start pretending that the tiny minority of Muslims in the UK are now trying to "brainwash our kids!".
Calm down, eh?


[edit on 11-12-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

I went to an RC school where faith and religious practice were a big part of the daily routine, it's left me with some fond, nostalgic memories and a belief that education should (or would be better) as a secular institution that examines all faiths and cultures dispassionately, merely for the purposes of education. Religious practice should be a personal thing IMO.

Originally posted by ubermunche
Religious practice should be a personal thing IMO.

- That's the 2nd time in as many days we've agreed on something ubermunche.

Is there some sort of planetary alignment going on?

Of course it should - that's why I'm not so fond of these religious schools. I hope that - eventually - they'll be phased out since they do make people seem very separate.

Going back to my own experience, it wasn't wholly secular since it did seem to use Christianity as a 'starting point' or a base, if you like. Though that's perhaps because that'll be the religion that people in my area are most familiar with, so they have some experience with it. I imagine that'd differ in a predominantly Muslim area.

But yes, give the kids the information they need and let them make their own minds up. Education should be taken from a completely secular point of view, just as government is. I don't object to religious authorities sending schools information and items specific to their religion (a Bible, crucifixes, Koran, a prayer mat or whatever) so that children can see these items and learn about them and how they're used. It's always a good thing to encourage people to think for themselves - might get more people interested in politics and issues of the day too, which again can only be a good thing in a democracy such as ours.

Lol Smikey, it's starting to freak me out a little too.

I think I may have misunderstood the original article.

Is the MCB sending packs as one per class/school, or are they sending 1 pack per child?

No objection to the former, but great objection to the latter.

I can't imagine the idea is a 'pack' per pupil, the cost would surely be prohibitive in the (IIRC) 800 schools mentioned.

In any event if it were not then I still can't see the harm in one each.

......and I don't see a problem with Roman Catholic, Hindhu, C of E, Jewish, Sikh, Shinto or Bhuddist etc etc teaching aids either.
(It might do something very positive.)
Whether sent as a whole school, each year group/class or individual 'pack' to the kids.

If it's merely information then it isn't 'recruitment' (which I would object to).

Whatever version of (as Dylan Moran once so beautifully put it) 'my invisible friend' you care to mention or believe in is fine by me, feel free and knock yourself out.....just so long as you don't expect me or mine to.

I might even take a passing interest in what it's all about and learn about it as the historic socio-political phenomenon it is, but, please spare me the rest.

.....and spare me too the whining of the neo-fascist element (have a look around if you like, their predictable sad drone isn't hard to find about this one) attempting to further their ludicrously laughable agenda with their dire warnings as they try to frighten as many (gullible) people as they can by pretending this is something it is not.



[edit on 12-12-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

The only reason i would object to each pupil getting a pack would be that it's a bit "in your face".

How would Muslims feel if Christians gave out Rosary beads and crucifixes to every Muslim child?

One per class is an educational tool. One per child is intrusive and looks to me like a veiled attempt at conversion..

Sorry, thats just the way I feel. I would rather there be no mention of Religion at all in schools. I am bringing my daughter up so that she can make her own choice when she is old enough. I don't want any of these cloth eared, religious types foistering anything on her.

There's the thing of it, if it's one per child and ALL children are given the opportunity of learning about ALL other belief systems (historic, social and cultural) then that's a pretty good, enlightened way of doing things. If it's singling out one particular religious/cultural group though it's pretty dubious and misguided.

I always feel these kind of stories are a little suspect though and not always as accurate as they could be however that cynicism also stretches to the idea that hostility to this may just as easily work both ways. If there is any truth to the idea that Islam is being singled out for special attention I suspect it's more to do with misguided super liberal reformers than any covert agenda from the muslim community.