weapons of mass destruction

Funny how when push comes to shove people always admit that the real reason behind the 'concept of disarmament' is their survival.

Since the purpose of humans is to learn lessons for the spirit in the physical realm (or so I believe), I can see why being here is so important. Especially when one knows either consciously or subconsciously that they are running out of time.

But I can't stop (oops, they can't stop), the universe so I can get off at the next bus stop, especially when the bus is going too fast.

It was a pipe dream - Unilateral Dissarmament meant the USSR and the US (with Nato following suit and the Warsaw Pact)

Unfortunatley the cat is now out of the bag so to speak and there are far too many players.

The best we can hope for today is that an agreement can be made with the UN of oversight and monitoring - the very thing Iraq refused.

Oppenheimer said much the same on the eve of the almagordo test and was pilloried as a communist for saying it.

planet earth is totally unique and totally precious in the Universe. Destroying it, and the people on it, is a violation against God. The time is coming when people will be judged as to whether they worked for the good of mankind and the planet, or for their own self serving goals, and its detriment.

Its as simple as that.

Neo
The world went through much worse times - and the bus at one time seemed never to stop - but it did - and some of us were there to see it.

Now we face another and I think more pervasive threat - Islamic Terrorism. I have lived with a terrorist threat and it can be surmounted - so long as no one falls for the belief that they are invincible. Good intel and solid ground work are called for.

Mystra
Im glad you have faith - and in faith we all find happiness.

Originally posted by mystra
planet earth is totally unique and totally precious in the Universe. Destroying it, and the people on it, is a violation against God. The time is coming when people will be judged as to whether they worked for the good of mankind and the planet, or for their own self serving goals, and its detriment.

Its as simple as that.

Piss on that.
You started this thread. So you're either trying to bring religion into this or you're going wildly off course.

The fact is that this is not Utopia. You have to fight for and earn your right to exist as there are many people out there who want to see the back of you - no matter how much you want to wave your flowers and give them a hug.

Now to return to the topic, that is what Israel's nuclear capability is about. There is no hugging and kissing whilst your very right to existence is denied by others.

Originally posted by THENEO
Silk,

agreed that Canada is not a nuclear threat to the US or anyone else but we could have and should have been a nuclear power IMHO. Especially when the soviets would launch nukes over our airspace to target the US, or fly bombers over our airspace to target the US or pilot their nuke subs into our costal space inorder to target the US. But that was not our decision as we were a property of the UK handed to the US while at the end of WWII we were in fact a world power.

In regards to India and Pakistan I have to whole heartedly agree with you in saying that there is some double standard being played out there. The intracasies of south east asian politics even make the conflict in the middle east seem straight forward to me.

Canada is not a nuclear threat, but we could be. We could secretly build missiles and nuke pretty much all of the US before the President even got his first phone call telling him that there are missiles on the way.

But we would not do that.

One of the differences between Iraq having WMD and India is that I believe Iraq signed a treaty stating that they would not build them where as India did not. I don't think the US views India as an enemy either. It is not all that hard to tell which countries have a grudge against the US and which do not.

Leveller

There is actually no call for that

I would ask what you bring to this ?

Originally posted by Silk
Leveller

There is actually no call for that

I would ask what you bring to this ?

No call for what exactly?
This threads is in the War on Terrorism forum and the topic was regarding Israel's WoMD.
It then changes to some contemplation of the navel.

So in answer to your other question, what I bring to it is an attempt to get it back on topic.
If the thread starter just wants to burble on about how # the world is then go post it in Current Affairs. To tell the truth though - it's old news.
It's easy to bring God into an argument about terrorism but at the end of the day it's Man who sets the bombs off.

Taking on board some of these valid points raised.

Personally, I think the Cuban Missile Crisis (whos 40 year anniversary we've just passed in October) was a possible stitch up. From stuff Ive read on this very board recently, communism and capitalism were two conjoined heads of one evil...all part of one ultimate masterplan. Through the McCarthy witch hunt years of the 50s, and through to Vietnam...it served as a good way to flush out, kill, or destroy opposers of the New World Order..not lefties or communists necessarily..just free thinkers who refused to toe the establishment line. It was very successful in this regard.

I think the current Iraqi war is a similar smokescreen...an exercise to find out who's for and who's against George Bush's world domineering, bullying agenda. What was the quote? "you're either with us or you're against us"

As for bringing God and Utopia (not religion!!!) into the Isreal question, I think this is valid..because the fight of good against evil is ultimately whats at stake in the world today, the epi-centre being the Middle East. My point was to highlight the hypocrisy of the USA in waging a war against "terror" nations in the Middle East for supposed WMD...when their staunch ally and partner in crime - Israel - is nothing more than the USA's base there, with more WMD than any other Middle Eastern country I expect. This has become the epicentre of the war between good and evil.

I hate the word Utopia...it sounds like a glazed kind of drugged, brainwashed state of bliss. Paradise is much better...it evokes a bounteous, happy, care- free existence on a unique planet of Gods creation (or experiment, if yer like)...which is all the original intention ever was. The more people there are that believe in it, the more chance there is of it happening...

Keep the Faith!

Originally posted by Leveller
Israel is nuclear.
It's had nuclear weapons for years.

Where do you think Einstein, Oppenhiemer and co came from?

I thought that einstien was from germany?

Originally posted by sirCyco
I thought that einstien was from germany?

Yes, but also Jewish.

To continue the topic, doesn't it make more sense that this was an inside job?
Who stands to gain the most if the extremists are rooted out of Saudi Arabian society?
Who are the extremists fighting?

By driving a wedge between the extremists and the general Saudi population, doesn't it make it easier for the princes to hold onto power?

Think that's far fetched? Just look at how many people here believe the US was responsible for 9/11.

I believe that the attack was perpetrated by Al Quaeda. But it's far more logical that if there was a conspiracy that it would have been perpetrated by the Saudis themselves and not by Israel.

Originally posted by mystra
ps

and Silk..Iraq has never threatened the US, neither has any other Middle Eastern country.

Isreal is the USA's base and ass kissing lacky in the Middle East. Thats why theyre allowed to harbour WOMD.

Obviously, you do not like Israel. Regardless, there are some things that are equally obvious.

Since the rebirth of Israel, the Arab world has hated her and wanted her destroyed. They have attempted to destroy her on more than one occasion, and the anti-Israeli rhetoric has never ceased, although they talk of peace to western reporters, spreading strategic misinformation.

Israel is a small country in a sea of enemies that, while they dare not attempt a direct attack against her due to her ownership of nuclear weaponry, fund and support terrorist organizations that attack her civilian population.

As far as your likening the U.S. to any other state, we are still a nation of laws, not of men, or a man. We are not ruled by an arbitrary dictator, and we are not bent on world domination. Our governing documentation does not allow leaway for such activity. Our ownership of nuclear weaponry has been a key to the world not slipping into another world war.

With the proliferation of nuclear weaponry to states that do not have a government such as ours, that are ruled by malevolent dictators or religious leaders that see nations with systems of beliefs different from theirs as territories that must be conquored, the world is quickly growing into a more unstable and dangerous place. Countries like Taiwan, for example, that have been able to suruvive and thrive because of the umbrella of protection by the U.S. has protected them from their enemies, will not be secure, and this security will not get any better were the U.S. to unilaterally disarm. The mere notion of unilateral disarmament was ludicrous when the left first shouted it decades ago, and still makes no sense today.

Originally posted by Silk
It was a pipe dream - Unilateral Dissarmament meant the USSR and the US (with Nato following suit and the Warsaw Pact)

Unfortunatley the cat is now out of the bag so to speak and there are far too many players.

The best we can hope for today is that an agreement can be made with the UN of oversight and monitoring - the very thing Iraq refused.

Oppenheimer said much the same on the eve of the almagordo test and was pilloried as a communist for saying it.

Here's an interesting thought about the whole "unilateral" theory with regards to Bush.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think that the fact ANYONE has the ability or desire to launch a nuclear attack, which could end with the destruction & extinction of all life on earth, is insane. All of these boys with toys, that have no business existing in the first place, should realize that they are risking the life of the planet with all of their chest-puffing. It's not just the US, or Israel, or Korea, it's everyone & everything on this #ing planet.
Oh yeah, as if they weren't taking our survival into account enough already, now the US is wanting to # with the ionoshere too. You know, the thing that protects us from being burned by the sun? They are not going to stop until, one way or another we are all burned to a crisp, or frozen in a nuclear winter. Thanks guys!

Originally posted by THENEO
Silk,

good points.

also consider that up to 30 additional countries could build a bomb within months also if desired.

I am Canadian for example, we have numerous nuclear plants in this country and substantial research capability.

We are also producers of uranimum and other elements needed.

We have been in the nuclear game since the 50s in one manner or other.

It would not take long for us to build one, nor for many countries in Europe or Australia or South Africa or other countries I could mention (Korea, Japan too).

But the US has no plans to invade those countries? why not?

Because South Africa is the only country in the world to voluntarily disarm itself from nuclear missiles that it used to have.

Originally posted by mystra
tell me this..the US has invaded Iraq due to the belief that it harbours Weapons of Mass Destruction...now Syria is (predictably) next on the list. If it was revealed that Isreal had WOMD, would the USA invade this country too?

ho ho ho!

I believe the U.S and U.K govts would invade any1 who was not with them in the war on Iraq.

I doubt they would invade a powerful country such as Russia if THEY invaded say IRAN

Well for Canada, I would add that we could easily produce the bomb if we have to. We got all the technologies and the skills we would need.

And during the cold war we had nukes in BC, Ontario and QC, it's just that nobody could possibly expect this

For Mistra,
the difference between Iraq and UK for example is that UK is not ruled by a megalo-ethnophobe like Saddam. This guy has already used chemical weapons on his own peoples... I agree you that Iraq has the right to defend itself, but it's not from the occident that Iraqis need to be protected but from Saddam and the Baas party.



[Edited on 15-12-2003 by Salem]

Yes I think Keneddy was assasinated due to his dangerous behavior during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it is fortunate the world is not in ruins! Yes!

i think the usa are trying to think up as many excuses as they can just to take over the middle eastno wonder full of natrul rescources. is a gold mine!