Survivalist: Military Equiptment

it has been brought up that Military Equipment may not be the best for The survivalist community. That Modern hiking equipment may be of better quality and a better choice.

IMHO Military equipment is a known its built to last and keep you alive. I have personally used it for more years then I care to remember and it has held up very well.

As a civilian its cheap to be had from army/navy surplus stores. Of course ime not saying get things like gas mask or bulletproof vest from Surplus stores but for things like Entrenching tools clothes for back woods use and Canteens. You just cant beat them for the cost. If you cant afford the equipment even if the quality is great its not going to help. Cheap equipment is better then no equipment.

I've priced New Camping backpacks that compare to the room of the ALICE pack. I would go broke trying to buy one of those. What about Sleeping bags, civilian bags are way to expensive.

Paid $5.00 for my ALICE. $15.00 for the frame and at the same time bought a M-1949 Sleeping Bag for another $10.00. Try to find that kind of bargain with Modern hiking equipment.

Ime not saying that the civilian stuff is bad quality I couldn't tell ya if it is or not.

all ime saying is that its way out of reach price wise for most of the people I know, and like I said if you cant afford it it wont help keep you alive.

Originally posted by angryamerican

Ime not saying that the civilian stuff is bad quality I couldn't tell ya if it is or not.

Can you see the problem in that statement? You're making recommendations on G.I. gear over civilian gear with no knowledge of civilian gear.

all ime saying is that its way out of reach price wise for most of the people I know, and like I said if you cant afford it it wont help keep you alive.

Yet you were also recommending G.I. MREs that cost around $80-$100 a case of 12 that can be replaced by spending $15 at the supermarket?

Just to pick one thing you mentioned. Sleeping bags.

Your choice is the 1949 sleeping bag this model was issued in 1949, and was last issued in the 70's. you compared it to new modern bags. That's an unfair comparison, you would be better off comparing it to something like my late 90's Kelty that I bought for $20. Or maybe you should compare modern bags with the current G.I. issue bag that costs around $100.

I have never slept in a 1949, however I have used latter issues when I was in the Army (late 80's early 90's) and frankly that bag sucked compaired to my Kelty. In particular the G.I. bag did not have very good down control and that led to many cold spots.

To sum it up, better bag = better sleep, better sleep = better performance during the day, better performance during the day = Better chance of survival.

Another thing to consider is age, sure it may of been tough stuff when it was new, but what has 30+ years of storage (in the case of the 1949 mummy bag) done to it? Many materials used in G.I. gear like canvas and nylon do not like age, things like dryrot in the case of canvas and in nylon it's even harder to spot, so hard in fact when nylon is used in a life critical situation it is often just discarded after a few years.

So use G.I. gear if you wish, but if you're planning on it to save your life please please please explore all your options!



SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA! (Knowledge Is Power)

Originally posted by angryamerican
it has been brought up that Military Equipment may not be the best for The survivalist community. That Modern hiking equipment may be of better quality and a better choice.

Al I'm saying is that its way out of reach price wise for most of the people I know, and like I said if you cant afford it it wont help keep you alive.

As angry said: "if you cant afford it it wont help keep you alive." Not everyone unfortunately has the financial resources to outfit their entire family with Kelty packs and Wiggy sleeping bags. Yes, they're nice, but are they really worth the high dollar price tag that goes along with them? Try and outfit a family of 5 with that type of gear!

Military Surplus items are not the trendiest or the most comfortable, but they are durable, they get the job done, and they're affordable. you can outfit a whole family with ALICE packs, intermediate weather sleeping bags, canteens, survival knives, and pistol belts for the cost of just one top of the line Kelty pack and a Wiggy bag.

The military spent thousands of dollars in the research and development of this equipment, so you know it will get the job done and for the least amount of money. If you can afford the best, more power to you! But if you are on a budget ALICE and all her relatives will start looking pretty good to you When the doo-doo is about to hit the fan.

[edit on 1/28/08 by LLoyd45]

I am not made of money but I prefer to use both types of eqipment for my supplies. I usually end up researching and trying to find the best, most lightweight items at the best price. I also find that when I try to scrimp and buy something cheap It usually ends up being exactly that cheap. I then have to go and buy another version of the same tool to ge tthe quality I am after. For the most part I like some military gear but as a general rule I find most of it too heavy and cumbersome. Take sleeping bags for instance, yes you can get a good surplus military bag that will keep you warm for cheap but the dang things weigh 7-8 pounds. I try to keep my minimalist pack at 10 not including food and extra clothing. I also own many tents, my military version is a catoma, a fairly expensive surplus item but it is well made and it is currently in two of my kits because of how well it is made compared to a name brand hiking tent. In the case of my tent I sacrifice a little weight for durability and make up the weight elswhere. My sleeping bag is rated for 0 degress and weighs just over 1.5 pounds. That sucker is awesome hard to trade that performance for a military bag that weighs 4 times more. I used to camp and hike using nothing but surplus gear because that was all I could afford at the time. so throw in a military tent with a military sleeping bag a steel canteen cup and a few other things and your packing nearly 25 pounds without food water and extra clothing. another example compare the weight of a military canteen cup to that of a leightweight titanium cup the differance is unbelievable. I think also when comparing gear take note of the differant types of gear grunts use compared to special forces, and wonder why they are called grunts, having to grunt and groan as they carry all that equipment around. I would also venture to say that many retail companies spend a lot of money to produce the best and lightest weight equipment available. Examine an equipment list of someone about to climb everest, I think that equipment, although more expensive, would serve you a lot better than some old surplus.

Military gear is great but save your money and spend a little extra for some of the better quality gear out there and you will be much happier and be able to hump your gear longer.

I think there is also something to be said for blending into your surroundings. In a TEOTWAWKI scenerio your going to be a lot safer blending in with a kelty back pack Nd jeans compared to some one decked out in full fatiques looking like they just jumped out of the pages of soldier of fortune.

I'll offer my 2 cents, while fully expecting change.
I think for some of us, especialy us older grunts, we stick to what we know best, and what we know works.
As to durability, I still use my Alice and webing belt issued in my TA50 when i first deployed to Vietnam in 1969.
I have had later issue webing belts, but none I liked better for servicablity and convenience.
No matter where you buy your gear, it all shares one thing in common, It must be maintained properly.
If you go to a surplus store and it looks like a junk shop, or the majority of thier stock is after market knock offs, don't give them your trust or money, find a better supplier.
As for MRE's. nobody has once said they make a good alternative diet.
The are emergency rations only.
I for one enjoy what i call survival camping and hiking trips. I take these trips with the intentions of not needing my emergency rations, but IF I should twist an ankle, or be stranded by inclement weather, I feel a heck of alot better knowing i have a few MRE's to get me by when i can't do better.
I have in my office a closet with my TA50 in it. amoung that gear is my old mummy bag, certified, and tested by me to 30 below zero.
Granted i might be able to buy a comparable civilian model bag, but the several hundered i would spend replacing a bag that still works, is better invested elswhere..
I have a feeling this is gonna be one of those Chevy vs Ford debates, that always resolve by each sticking to what they feel most comfortable with.
For the new folks just embarking on the road to self reliance, i think it's good they hear ( or read) both perspectives, as it gives them choices, with pro's and con's from both sides to consider.
On that note, we have recently had several folks ask our opinions from a beginners perspective, so i thought I might add to that by telling ya'll BOB has come to COSTCO LOL
A fire fighter buddy of mine told me COSTCO has a 5 gallon plastic bucket with all the basics included, the whole kit is between 50 and 60 dollars.
Thats cheap " life assurance" in anybody's book.

Originally posted by 1ShotDeal
I'll offer my 2 cents, while fully expecting change.
I think for some of us, especialy us older grunts, we stick to what we know best, and what we know works.


I have to agree i honestly believe that military surplus is the way to go all my duece gear came from the CORPs and im happy with it i know how it all works,what works best for different things and how well it all works as far as buying from a military surplus store goes just plan on spending a little extra time going through all of there stuff to find gear thats not broke beyond repair and to all the people that think they need to spend thousands of dollars on gear just remember that there are people out there that would put a bullet in you just to have something better than what they got so for me its military gear all the way it maybe cheaper but it works

Here's a lateral thought for you before you don your surplus-bought DPM battledress

If you bug-out with your bergen and are wearing your mil-spec survival gear (jacket, trousers, boots, etc) are you putting yourself at risk as being mis-identified as possible ex-service military personnel and therefore more likely to be a risk as an 'hostile combatant' by the authorities during lock-down, or mis-identified as military personnel enforcing similar upon civilians?

...two ways to make yourself an unintentional target!

Most of all my stuff is civilian if not all. I have limited experience with military gear. So i would say to stick with that which you are comfortable with. If a military sleeping bag isn't warm enough, buy a couple of flannel sleeping bag liners (in mummy and regular) and enjoy. They also have cotton liners for the summer and average about $10-15 per set. Why replace it if it works. Mix between both military and civilian and you get the best of both worlds.

I like to use both types. Old canteen cups are good for cooking over an open fire. But I too prefer a civy pack and bag. However alll arguments aside it still is not what you have in your bag, it is what you can do with it.

It is more important that you have the knowledge to keep yourself alive than having the newest top of the line equipment. Use what you are comfortable with and know how to use.

Whatever type of gear you do buy. Buy the best you can afford. Mil surplus is a good bet for the dollar. The trade off is weight. Civilian equipment is light and handy but not always as durable as it should be for daily use.

Remember your life and the lives of your loved ones may depend on what you have.

respectfully

reluctantpawn