Are men and women equal in Islam? Hint: NO!

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Thanks for responding riley;

No probs.

While I know that Christianity (vis-a-vis the Bible) has language along similar lines; where are all the preachers/ministers, etc; proclaiming women to be subservient and inferior to men? Please post here where this is happening today.

1. The pro life groups. You know.. the ones that use to habitually bomb hospitals and shoot doctors, pregnant women and security guards. That wasn't that long ago.
2. Hospitals that deny the morning after pill to ensure that rape pregnancies implant. That certainly isn't on the side of the woman.
3. The pope. He has a huge problem with feminism and has said so.
4. In a couple of American states rape within marriage is legal [not sure which ones].
5. There are plenty of fundamental christian groups that think women should stay at home etc.
6. Domestic abuse is very common and fundementalist groups encourage women to 'humour' their abusers rather than leave.
7. Rape is very common and attitutes vary in the west depending on denomination/religion.
8. Not many alter girls around.
9. Not any female catholic priests around.
10. Your post.

Did you go to that website I linked to? This is an opinion being espoused today!!!

What mindset do you think it is that compels this Sheik to believe this way?

I didn't deny these opinions exist.. if you search my posts you'll see that I was arguing against a sheik who said that women deserve rape.

It's the same mindset that gives Muslim leaders, such as this one, permission to describe raped women as being at fault because they are like "uncovered meat."

Thats the one!

I could go on. But I think I've made my point.

You certainly have.
You blatently tried to use sexism to bash Islam.. yet in the same paragraph you've exposed your own sexist opinions on women by saying they [we] 'should know their place'. Thats kind of like saying "Slavery is racist but segregation is okay.. " Not only that but you now seemed to have dissowned even saying it. I'm sorry I didn't get all reactionary about the whole of Islam on your say so. Must be hormones or something. Oops sorry I'm nagging again..

[edit on 28-11-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
1. The pro life groups. You know.. the ones that use to habitually bomb hospitals and shoot doctors, pregnant women and security guards. That wasn't that long ago.

Ah yes; but these are truly "minorities" and they have been convicted and imprisoned (ie: Eric Rudolph) for their actions!! Constituional law prevailed and supersceded whatever religious doctrine these people proclaimed to operate under.

Originally posted by riley
2. Hospitals that deny the morning after pill to ensure that rape pregnancies implant. That certainly isn't on the side of the woman.

Please site a reference so I can comment intelligently on it. In any case; I haven't said or even implied that rape does or doesn't happen among all religions. I've only stated that Muslim women who are raped in countries that rule under Sharia law MUST produce two male witnesses on her behalf because her testimony is only worth half that of a man's. This is very difficult, and in fact, often impossible, and the result is that she is charged as an adulteress; which carries the death penalty by stoning. Of course, before that happens, whe will likely be killed by a male member of her family in order to restore it "honor"

Originally posted by riley
3. The pope. He has a huge problem with feminism and has said so.

Again--site a reference. I do believe a Catholic woman's testimony in court has the same value as a man's and I'm not aware of any requirement under Catholism for women to be covered or remain in the home unless they are escorted.

Originally posted by riley
4. In a couple of American states rape within marriage is legal [not sure which ones].

Site a reference.

Originally posted by riley
5. There are plenty of fundamental christian groups that think women should stay at home etc.

Again; constitutional law forbids unlawful imprisonment in the home.

Originally posted by riley
6. Domestic abuse is very common and fundementalist groups encourage women to 'humour' their abusers rather than leave.

But it is not sactioned by the government--this is an important difference!!

Originally posted by riley
7. Rape is very common and attitutes vary in the west depending on denomination/religion.

Please explain. Are you saying there are religions that encourage rape? Which ones?

Originally posted by riley
8. Not many alter girls around.

Do you consider this to be a subjugation of girls?

Originally posted by riley
9. Not any female catholic priests around.

Certainly this is discrimination; but is it subjugation?

Originally posted by riley
10. Your post.

What about my post?

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by riley
1. The pro life groups. You know.. the ones that use to habitually bomb hospitals and shoot doctors, pregnant women and security guards. That wasn't that long ago.

Ah yes; but these are truly "minorities" and they have been convicted and imprisoned (ie: Eric Rudolph) for their actions!! Constituional law prevailed and supersceded whatever religious doctrine these people proclaimed to operate under.

Western Muslims are obligated to follow Western laws.

Originally posted by riley
10. Your post.

What about my post?

I'm very sorry about that.. I confused you with another poster. I will answer the rest of your post tommorow.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by riley]

According to Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid, owner/advisor of this Islamic Q&A website, men and women are not only not equal; men are superior in every way.

So not only does Al-Munajjid have an annoyingly long name but he's also a sexist huh? Yes the guy's name is a bit long for my tastes, and yes he's a bit of an extremist, but what he says has some merit! Men are superior in many ways to women, that's a fact. Women have their strengths without a doubt, but men continue to be "in charge" of households today in America.

Most women that I know are attracted to dominant men who are providers. It's evolution and it has been this way for thousands and thousands of years. So just in the last few decades we've become soft and gone away from tradition and towards equal rights.... well where did that leave us? It left us with a much higher rate of divorce that's where.

Originally posted by riley
Western Muslims are obligated to follow Western laws.

True. And they know our laws better than most of our citizens because they are becoming very adept at using our legal system to slowly Islamize our society.

From filing lawsuits for the purpose of silencing critics of Islam (CAIR Subsequently LOST that lawsuit--but at a great cost to the individual (Andrew Whitehead) they were suing;

to Congressmen (Vis-a-Vis Ellison) taking the oath of office on the Qur'an (I don't believe ANY religious text should be used for this),

to Somali Muslim taxi drivers refusing service to customers who have alcohol in their posession or to bilnd people who have guide dogs (dogs are considered by Muslims as filthy beasts; much like pigs);

to companies, such as Church's Chicken and Carribou Coffee who have prescribed for themselves special finance rules that comply with Sharia Law (I fault our dhimmi government for caving/catering to these companies)

to CAIR's stated goal that they would like to see Islam become the dominant religion in the US with the Qur'an being the "highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth".

I could go on and on. If we don't change our position on political correctness and stop kow-towing to Muslims, American society will slowly become Islamized--and slowly is the key because it will more deifficult to notice changes if they happen slowly. Muslims count on this. Then one day, we'll wake up to hear the obnoxious bellowing of prayers over loudspeakers 5 times each day; just as they do in Muslim countries.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I could go on and on. If we don't change our position on political correctness and stop kow-towing to Muslims, American society will slowly become Islamized--and slowly is the key because it will more deifficult to notice changes if they happen slowly. Muslims count on this. Then one day, we'll wake up to hear the obnoxious bellowing of prayers over loudspeakers 5 times each day; just as they do in Muslim countries.

In some ways, I understand what you're saying. In some, I don't. I do not understand how being politically correct amounts to kow-towing, nor how being educated about their culture will equal an 'islamization' of American culture...
If nothing else, would you please explain a little further what you mean?
(And if it was said in a previous post, I offer my apologies. I've been completely out of touch with ATS so that I can finish up the semester with a bang, and thus have not been reading as thoroughly as I would otherwise.)


In light of the recent letter to President Bush, and depending on how one interprets the Iranian president's words, he'd be more than happy to have a religious political system. (Whether it would work or not, I don't know.) However, he doesn't go so far as to say that everyone should be Muslim, but rather religious.

And at the same, time, men like Taha (from The Modern Martyr are pushing ideas that are from the Qu'ran, yet can be applied to every human being without the necessity of one religion. (I started a thread on this someplace.. it almost got rolling.. much like Taha's push for reform! )