New Submarine Launched Multi Role Missiles

the Gremal defence contractor, DIEHL has unvieled what they claim is the first submarine lauched missile system capable of offensive / defensive fire against air , land and surface naval targests , all a a range of upto 15km.

the new missile , codename IDAS is a navalised development of the ISIS-T MISSILE [ an existing AAM ~ comparable to SIDEWINDER] , designed to be lauched from a 3 round launch caddy in a conventional tube of the u-212 class U-BOOT . And guided by a fiber optic ribbon . the missile is claimed to be automomous , but also has operator overide of target selection and abort.

i am struggling to comprehend how it is both " autonomous " and " fibre optic guided , but something could have been lost in translation .

it looks like a cool thing for a sub skipper to have availiable though , and a nasty shock fro some ASW crew busy droping sonobouys , or worse dipping sonar - no where to run when you are hovvering

here is the link german only i am affraid - thats why i paraphrased everything important

mod edit: corrected spelling of thread title, added captial as well

[edit on 20-11-2006 by UK Wizard]

i am struggling to comprehend how it is both " autonomous " and" fibre optic guided

As far as I understand it, they are set on autopilot, but if need arises, they can be steared manually by wire.

They already have the same systems for missiles:
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 21-11-2006 by secret_aircraft6]

IA,

I can't read the German either but would suspect that a paragraph by paragraph translation through babel-

babelfish.altavista.com...

Would reveal that ONLY THE SEEKER from IRIS-T is being used.

The main missile system is the French 'Polyphem' which in turn is an evolved copy of the U.S. FOG-M.

The reason I suspect this is because the IRIS-T (Infra Red Imagery Sidewinder Tail-controlled), like all such _AAM_, is a supersonic boost-to-coast weapon which means that:

1. It's Not likely going to reach 15km from low level on anything but a ballistic trajectory and against jet powered ASW systems, it may have limited pursuit and/or altitude options from a static launch.

2. It Will shear if not burn off any FO tether by simple virtue of it's acceleration rates and TVC.

3. It Will be 'rather difficult' to target by relay if such is actually required.

4. It Won't do a whole helluva lot against even frigate type surface combatants.

This will get you started I think-

www.army-technology.com...

(Ctrl-F 'Triton')

>>
I am struggling to comprehend how it is both " autonomous " and " fibre optic guided , but something could have been lost in translation .
>>

Most I2R seekers are quite capable of autonomous lockon with little or no human intervention or 'slew' it simply requires that you tailor the specie to which the seeker is most responsive (that which is 'brightest' or 'darkest' on a black hot/white hot display to a human) and then get the weapon FOV over the general target area. D-Maverick could lock up targets that way with little or no trouble, just by putting the HUD waterline mark over the general TLE zone.

The problem (with the FOG as well) was always getting the missile into a remote cued area for either seeker or operator to see the target. In this, the earlier TV guided missiles often ended up being 'flown' all the way into drone UH-1 surrogates and we didn't want to restrict ourselves to only optical modes in daylight (the program was originally part of the FAADS air defense system to replace Sgt. York in European theaters where the weather is low-overcast half the time and 'worse' the rest). The later Platinum Silicide seeker proved to be more flexible but cost reduction measures vs. produceability yields never really provided an affordable guidance system for 'pot shot' random sightings of targets through the soda straw.

These days, GPS and/or an offboard mark (laser) would be used to set the height of the ballistic midcourse phase and probably the slew and graze angle of the seeker via the digital IMU to more or less open-eyes to the operator with the weapon TLE only off by a few meters, if that. This would then leave him 'Man In The Loop' empowered to look at the target, confirm it was what he was expecting and move the graticule over to lock it up.

In cruise missiles all of this was automated via DSMAC about 20 years ago of course...

>>
It looks like a cool thing for a sub skipper to have available though, and a nasty shock for some ASW crew busy dropping sonobouys, or worse dipping sonar,- no where to run when you are hovvering
>>

Indeed, it basically removes the practicality of the lone aerial USW platform on a sheer airframe value + extended mission area approach times, even for most loloing fixed wing assets.

That said, as we found out in the FOG-M effort, hitting a dynamic target moving across a target field is no easy task by hand and hitting one lined up with the missile's own flight vector often left you searching for one dark spot against field of other darkspots with little or no (snap down = more area and better trajectory dynamics) bright horizon or dirt-scaled target popout until VERY close to the terminal intercept.

CONCLUSION:
Myself, the only really interesting element here is the notion that this system is encapsulated in a 'caddy' as you put it. While I would NOT choose either an FO or a rocket booster, the notion that the weapon can potentially be _sewn_, like a mine is important because it lets the sub layer it's defenses and employ them while undertaking other missions. Together with the subs native stealth, this theoretically allows you to use /another/ tether. Or even an acoustic or lidar based LINK to launch from well away from the weapon broach signature and indeed without the highpressure blow of a conventional torpedo firing (many modern mines are mobile and can 'swim out').

This is much different from say land based air defense systems where there is still a regrettable tendency to site the launch box and it's missile right atop the active cue/guidance sensor. Limiting the envelope coverage of the first. And the sensor horizon of the emitter (it may also extend the engagement window and increase vulnerability of the radar to reactive ARM shots).

How ironic that it takes the near total vulnerability of the sub near the surface (or close to a battle group) to create an effective remote-fire launch system. Now if only they would go to a MALI type airframe and a turbo propulsion system the notion of an 'autonomous hunter' would actually have some meaning. Lord knows even 'only' a 550 million dollar SSK asset should be worth a few more bucks for the turbine and autonomous search pattern navigator and you can still use RF to send back an image to whatever antenna you care to stick up out of the activated launch capsule...


KPl.

Heres a translation i got off another site

IDAS



With the IDAS missile system, a submerged submarine can successfully engage enemy antisubmarine warfare helicopters, small surface vessels and land targets near the coast. The IDAS system comprises the missile, four of which are housed in special launch canisters in the torpedo tube, and the control console in the submarine's command and control center. Main missile components are the imaging IR seeker taken over from IRIS-T, a fiber-optic data link between the control console and the missile as well as a singlestage, solid-propellant rocket motor providing IDAS with a mission range of approx. 15km. In contrast to other fiber-optic guided missiles, IDAS is fully autonomous because the guidance computer is accommodated in the missile and the seeker can guide the missile to the target even without functioning data link. The operator on board the submarine may intervene in the course of mission at any time. In addition, reconnaissance results and target images obtained by means of the seeker can be evaluated in the submarine. IDAS is a technology demonstration program financed by BWB and the industrial working group ARGE IDAS (40% each HDW and Diehl BGT Defence; Kongsberg, 20%). IDAS is planned to enter the development phase in 2007.