Too many theories, not enough conclusions.

Let me list a few random popular ancient civilisations.

The Egyptians
The Olmecs
The Summerians
The Vedic
The Qin Dynasty.

These are not legends, they existed.


This site has been active for a long time and I have been coming to it for a long time. Everday I am constantly amazed by the wonderful insight , desire and intelligence of some of the posters and I am also constantly astounded by the members who have been coming here as long as I have who for some reason known only to themselves and their colleagues...spread disinformation. skillfully steer people away from subjects and do theri best to limit any reasonable conclusion to any of many of the threads.

Look through the archives and you will see that the same members names will appear as the last person who has posted on a thread time and time again, thats because they don't give up untill they kill the subject dead...look it up for yourselves...you will soon see who these people are.

Some have a religious agenda and I can understand that, they want to protect their faiths and there Gods and even though I myself might think they are misinformed lunatics who chose to ignore mountains of evidence, I still understand were they are coming from.

Those who put up walls and have no obvious religious agenda...well....you can only speculate what their motivation is.

I've been around in the past when someone has posted a hot subject in the space of 5 minutes every moderator and expert on ATS swooped on this poor person. The speed of it was quite amazing and it was as though someone has sent out a distress signal or perhaps, maybe an alarm went off in the room and the faceless people sat infront of their computer screens carried out the practiced proceedure.

That's the thing see, if you have a few brain cells knocking around and you stay here long enough it will become clear that all is not what it seems. Now I'm not saying the Leaders of ATS have anything to do with this, but I'm convinced there are people who post on this site who are conspiring to the same agenda.

I want to philosophise and discuss Ancient Civilisations, I want to talk theories, share evidence and reach conclusions but there are arrogant individuals on here who ridicule others, are negative towards others and use their skills and their status to break the will of others.

Some will probably ridicule this as the ranting of a paranoid mind and I can really say nothing to prove otherwise...but all I would like to say is that members who get disenchanted and ridiculed by these people... please don't give up.

You will never match them for persistance ( some appear to be on a 24 shift rotation and many of us have "Real Jobs") but if more of us start chipping away at the walls of deception, sooner or later they will crumble.






[edit on 17-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

[edit on 17-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

The Summerians

you don't spell the Sumerians like that

Some will probably ridicule this as the ranting of a paranoid mind and I can really say nothing to prove otherwise

maybe you could get a certificate of good mental health from your doctor and post that
that'd prove it



[edit on 18-11-2006 by Marduk]

Originally posted by Marduk

The Summerians

you don't spell the Sumerians like that

The polite thing to do is say something constructive with the correct spelling contained in your post...

I point JOHNNYMURDER towards the ATS thread about altruism, trust and sincerity; this should allay your concerns. The moderators can be scathing, yet this is to promote the rejection of ignorance. People who use this site are not meant to be worried about other peoples feelings, just whether the truth is being pursued or not.

[edit on 18/11/06 by byhiniur]

The polite thing to do is say something constructive with the correct spelling contained in your post

I thought correcting the spelling was constructive

Originally posted by Marduk

The Summerians

you don't spell the Sumerians like that

Hey! I got "mod-gang-raped" for posting a "one line response" ...

I totally agree with the original poster. This site used to be very cool when it was JUST abovetopsecret.com now its grown into this beaucratic censored state of a site.

This site used to be very cool when it was JUST abovetopsecret.com now its grown into this beaucratic censored state of a site.

one mans meat
I'm quite sick of all the sites that claim to be interested in the truth yet don't bother to allow it to be heard
this site achieves a nice balance
if you talk crap don't expect to get away with it
the state that UM or the ghmb or archaeologica are in at the moment is an example of what happens when you let the cranks take over
the motto here is deny ognorance
from your last post donk its quite clear that you'd like to perpetuate it.
why
got nothing real to talk about ?

Marduk,
I love your posts and i know a hell of a lot better than to argue with you... now THAT is denying ignorance at its finest!

Haha

I love it when they hijack threads by pointing out spelling mistakes...it's so simple and yet so moving

It's a tactic to be sure...but to be honest...I think it's time you tried a more effective one

You proved the point of my rant wonderfully, I commend you.

Marduk, your motives stand out like a man on the Grassy Knoll wearing a smoking top hat.

I love it when uneducated people rant that the truth about our secret human history is being hidden from us by the establishment on a forum that has no establishment members because they haven't studied anything properly to form a genuine opinion of their own and have to steal an idea used by pseudoscientists in an attempt to give their own crap some validity
that proves my point better than my pointing out you can't spell Sumerian does yours

Originally posted by Marduk
I love it when uneducated people rant that the truth about our secret human history is being hidden from us by the establishment on a forum that has no establishment members because they haven't studied anything properly to form a genuine opinion of their own and have to steal an idea used by pseudoscientists in an attempt to give their own crap some validity
that proves my point better than my pointing out you can't spell Sumerian does yours

A fast response there Marduk, interesting...in fact every poster on this thread came on line the second I posted.

I have a PHD in Ancient History by the way AND I'm popular with the ladies...so I maybe uneducated...but at least I can dance.

Let's take a look at your comeback using my GSCE psychology...Mmm

You are definately agitated...a little arogant too as you regard others who don't conform to your ideas as pseudoscientists.

As a respected member...you hope that people won't read my long piece and take your word for it...maybe when people see Marduk they have every confidence that you are a trusted poster with a wealth of knowledge.

I'm here to discuss, test and conclude...nothing more...and this forum would be the ideal place to do it but there are too many people building walls and ridiculing honest inquisitive people...and you it seems...are one of them.

Progress can only be made if we drop our own agendas and learn to embrace others ideas...it's for the common good.

So lets not pick each other apart...rise above it...and don't let your own prejudice get in the way of your intellect.

JOHHNY, why are you ranting about people knocking down your theories. It is important that you and everyone who visits this site realises that ATS is a place for open discussion, but not a place to advocate ideas that have no foundations. I hope that in future your posts will be more to do with promoting the rejection of ignorance and less in baiting people into rejecting your arguments. Attempting to attack Marduk on a personal level only shows that you don't grasp the concept of this site.

Originally posted by JOHNNYMURDER
I have a PHD in Ancient History by the way AND I'm popular with the ladies...so I maybe uneducated...but at least I can dance.

Interesting. What was your dissertation topic?

Let's take a look at your comeback using my GSCE psychology...

Let's not.

Our policy here is "attack the idea but not the poster." We're fairly strict about this.

Although this isn't a site full of professionals, we do like to see sources cited; preferably sources with good provenance. We're looking forward to your contributions and your citations.

So...why don't you begin your debate with a few reasoned paragraphs and some citations, eh?

A fast response there Marduk, interesting...in fact every poster on this thread came on line the second I posted.

is this a new conspiracy theory in the making. I'd also like to point out that when you say every poster in this thread you actually mean four people. I'm one of them and you are the other. I can promise you no conspiracy on my part. you I'm not so sure about

I have a PHD in Ancient History by the way AND I'm popular with the ladies...so I maybe uneducated...but at least I can dance.

So you having a PHD in ancient history qualifies you to claim that everyone who doesn't post nonsense is conspiring to hide the truth from people at this forum.
quite clearly anyone can read thgrough the posts and replies here and see that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and in 99% of cases the extraordinary evidence is just made up or misinterpreted. This is like the claim made by most Pseudoscientists that the archaeological establishment is conspiring to hide the truth from the general public about our super advanced civilised past. you can trust me on this one the first question on archaeology phd application forms is not "1. would you happily hide the truth from the public if you uncovered anything not covered by orthodox thought". the first response by any archaeologist on discovering the mother ship from Alpha Centauri is going to be "alert the worlds media and become famous forever"

Let's take a look at your comeback using my GSCE psychology...Mmm

your GCSE psycology isn't anywhere near good enough to understand a twisted intellect like mine. qualified experts have already triued and failed completely to understand where I'm coming from

You are definately agitated...a little arogant too as you regard others who don't conform to your ideas as pseudoscientists.

actually i'm not agitated at all. I'm enjoying myself. I'm not a masochist by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe I'm a bit of an algolagnian (you can look that up if you like I won't criticise you for it) but then so are most people

As a respected member...you hope that people won't read my long piece and take your word for it...maybe when people see Marduk they have every confidence that you are a trusted poster with a wealth of knowledge.

I love it when people call me respected. it normally means that theyre about to cleverly insult me. I was so disappointed to discover that you ran out of steam on that one before you got too far. I'm saying nothing about you calling me a member
I'll let that one go

I'm here to discuss, test and conclude...nothing more...and this forum would be the ideal place to do it but there are too many people building walls and ridiculing honest inquisitive people...and you it seems...are one of them.

I have never ridiculed anything but peoples deliberate ignorance. someone asks a question and I'll answer it to the best of my ability. someone states an obvious untruth then tries to back it up with falsified evidence gets ridicule. deservingly

Progress can only be made if we drop our own agendas and learn to embrace others ideas...it's for the common good.
So lets not pick each other apart...rise above it...and don't let your own prejudice get in the way of your intellect.

most people at this forum don't have an agenda. My agenda is for the truth. is that so bad
I want people to know exactly what went on in our history so they can better understand the past and not be doomed to repeat it. Pseudoscience stops people from finding out the truth for themselves. if most of the people on this site had instead of reading the crap put out by a long list of unqualifed authros they would have had the time to get qualified themselves and would already know the answers they are looking for
and as for letting my prejudice get in the way of my intellect, Johnny I'm not the one saying that there are not enough conclusions in this forum when in fact every thread I've ever read has had a very valid one.
its up to you using your intellect where possible to decide what the conclusion is and whether or not you can accept it is aided your common sense
unfortunatly they don't do phd's or gcse's in that

Interesting. What was your dissertation topic?

It was the Kingdom of Kush ( Cush) Madame Byrd...I smell the doubt in your mind, though that could be Chanel No 5, but please take my word my dear so we can avoid any petty unpleasantness in the future.

As for Marduk, it's pointless me arguing the point and I'll close the subject here...but I thought I'd fire a warning shot across the bow and see who it hit...purely for experimental purposes of course.

The thing you learn about the study of Ancient Civilisations...and I've been studying it since I picked up a book of Greek Myths at the age of 5 and I'm now 27...is that most of what you think you know is wrong.

People think they have the answer because they have read the right books, they can quote respected scholars and they have a few fancy letters after their name but ultimately they are doing nothing but re jigging the theories of people they BELIEVE to be wise, learned and right.

A 16 year old boy sat in his bedroom who comes up with a bizzare theory involving Jesus Juggling with the Pyramids does more of a service to the imagination and worth of humanity then any alleged scholar quoting chapter of verse of texts that in THEIR OPINION, are valid and of worth.

Byrd, you brandish you knowledge like a lip stick sword and you do make some fabulous points and are obviously talented but I feel queasy about labelling you as an expert because I think that is misleading to some posters.

I don't accept the idea of an "Expert" I've been tarred with that brush myself but what I always say to people who label me that is..."I might be an expert today, but if somebody digs up 3000 year old microwave oven this afternoon...I'll be an idiot by tomorrow "

Everything is fleeting and transient and that includes so called "facts"...but that aside...I'll leave you with the some of the best advice my Grandfather ever gave me....."Never believe in your own BullS*it".

Hopefully I haven't annoyed anyone to much, If I have, so be it, but hopefully over the coming weeks and months we can acheive some good things together.

Originally posted by Marduk
...the state that UM or the ghmb or archaeologica are in at the moment is an example of what happens when you let the cranks take over
the motto here is deny ognorance

I see that proper spelling is a concern here. If so, then, ognorance?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Marduk
...the state that UM or the ghmb or archaeologica are in at the moment is an example of what happens when you let the cranks take over
the motto here is deny ognorance

I see that proper spelling is a concern here. If so, then, ognorance?

Harte

Ive been waiting to deny ognorance for a long time. I could even make that a motto.

Johnny:
Kush, eh? We haven't actually gotten into the impact of Kush on Egypt here, but it'll be nice to have someone debating the pyramids using material from Kush. That's been a lack in our discussions -- gets occasionally mentioned but not often enough. What period did you specialize in?

I was kind of hoping your PhD was on the Levantine cultures or Greece instead since Marduk and I are quibbling over ancient Greek texts at the moment in another thread and I have been reduced to laboring my way through the language.

We are, indeed, skeptical of academic claims. There are a number of real PhDs here and an even larger number with Masters' degrees and your celebration of non-scholars (and lack of citations... so automatic with those who have shoved themselves through academe) is interestingly anomalous. We've also had a number of people who bought academic degrees and waved them as a flag at us (it was easy enough to knock their claims over) -- so you'll forgive our skepticism, I hope.

Got any books you can recommend to folks here interested in Kush (for those of you not familiar with this, this was the African kingom (Blacks) that ruled Egypt for awhile and is an important technological, cultural, and literary center. Anyone with an interest in African ancestors or world cultures really should read up on Kush.)

Can you really buy a valid Degree?

I thought you could only get them in pastry making or the history of Spiderman.

As for the Kush, there are many books floating around...the 'Royal Cemeteries of Kush Volumes' are worth a look but I try not to give recommendations and let people investigate for themselves. If we all started at the same book that line of thought may naturally take us in the same direction, so I think it's best for researchers to chose their own starting point and hopefully by doing so, they will uncover some juicy piece of history that has been missed or not linked to another.

I've been to Meroe & Gebel Barkal ( home of some Kush Pyramids and temples) and just like Egyptain buildings, they really do need to be seen in order to be full appreciated.

Musch of the Meroitic script used by the Kush is as yet undecipered...so please...if there is a code breaker in the house now is the time to make yourself famous

People who use this site are not meant to be worried about other peoples feelings, just whether the truth is being pursued or not.

I can agree till a point. I hope, at the depth of our hearts we all want to speak the truth. It happens for a diversity of reasons to delude others with our word either we are ignorant, or we have been deluded (those who mislead others on purpose are not included). The signature:'' The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. Mark Twain'' is among the best. I have to remind you that truth is harsh and scientific evidence simply can't co-exist in the same place with sentimental speech. We are no here to open a friendly chat. If you think you are, i am afraid, you are at the wrong place. There is, also, a ''but''.The promotion of truth and the clearence of mist of uncertainity, we need to adapt a more humane tended educationalattitude toward others. Not just simply treat others as uneducated people :

I love it when uneducated people rant that the truth about our secret human history is being hidden from us by the establishment on a forum that has no establishment members because they haven't studied anything properly

One moment,please.
How you know anyone's history background? Life is apartedfrom many things to perform, many problems to solve and everything is not circulated around ancient civilizations. Let's take an example, i will do it personal so to be rational.
'' I wake up and find nobody around the house 'couse all are at work till late, i clean, go shopping, preparing lunch and dinner, go to the academy to attend my scholars, having to finish my assignments till the scheduled deadline, go out with my friends to chatter for this and that and now tell me how can i find the time to read PROPERLY the ancients civilizations? From school? Unfortunately our government choses to spend the few incomes to buy war matterials rather than equip our school with proper tools.'' (this was just my personal excample and i don't know others personal life). As you can understand, people have not the same fortune to stud the ancients civilizations.

This site used to be very cool when it was JUST abovetopsecret.com now its grown into this beaucratic censored state of a site.

Generally, the abovetopsecret.com is a community. A community (as the community in your town or city) has its own rules. The same your behaviour is at your daily life the same, the same the with other peoples in the forum should be. Any silly thing should be criticised.

if you talk crap don't expect to get away with it

I completely agree

I love it when they hijack threads by pointing out spelling mistakes

some spelling mistakes are a ''slip of the keyboard'' and so can be justified. Though, Sumerians are a subject-matter in the ''Lost civilizations'' topic, meaning that this word rightfully asks to be spelled correctly.

pseudoscientists

Hoe do we detect them?

A fast response there Marduk, interesting

he responded 4 minutes after your last post, which means he was the first online member and nothing more

Progress can only be made if we drop our own agendas and learn to embrace others ideas

Embrace without critical check? Let's say i am telling you i am a really Dragon (a theory) would you embrace it? the answer is negative. To be true, i love new theories and i am happy when people create their own, becouse they show great signs of imagination, but i merely accept (embrace) the scientific ones.

algolagnian

you have to explain it. I look it up and found nothing (no comments, please)

We've also had a number of people who bought academic degrees and waved them as a flag

Can you really buy a valid Degree?

What!!!

What!!! I spend my best of very years at the Hall of Ivy to get a degree and after that i will be sitting at the bench of unemployment, while others with pseudo-degrees from the Halls of Money will will work at a bureau with high salary? That's hanky-punky!

If we all started at the same book that line of thought may naturally take us in the same direction

I have to disagree.
Each human's background is so different in a such a level affected from external factors that give each one different philosophy and psychology. So, it is pretty hard to bump into the same direction. Am i right?