Santorini (Thera)

This isn't a new subject and I'm sure it's been covered, but with all this talk of Venus, Velikovsky and Floods I think it would wise to look at the simplest explanantion for these legends...we can speculate about Planets and Stars and produce wild theories that have elements of scientific truth or interpret the stories of ancient cultures from the perspective of 21st century thought but in Santorini we have an actual , tangible event. We saw the effects of the Tsunami live on our television screens therefore it is possible for us to imagine how what kind of desruction the Eruption of this island caused in the Mediterranean.

This is a map of Santorini:

Santorini

See that big hole filled with sea in the middle?
That's a Caldera, it was formed when the Volcano exploded and collapsed into itself.

I'm not a technical guy so I won't quote any actual stats but all the evidence suggest that this explosion was 4 times more powerful than the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883 and this is were science and theory ends and common sense begins.

The 1883 eruption ejected more than 25 cubic kilometres of rock, ash, and pumice and generated the loudest sound ever historically reported — the cataclysmic explosion was distinctly heard as far away as Perth in Australia (approx. 1930 miles or 3100 km), and the island of Rodrigues near Mauritius (approx. 3000 miles or 4800 km). Atmospheric shock waves reverberated around the world seven times and were detectable for five days[Near Krakatoa, according to official records, 165 villages and towns were destroyed and 132 seriously damaged, at least 36,417 (official toll) people died, and many thousands were injured by the eruption, mostly in the tsunamis which followed the explosion.

So if Santorini was 4 times as powerful the furthest the explosion was heard was 3000 miles and the shock reverberated around the world 7 times and was detectable for 5 days. We can make an educated guess without getting to the scientific complexities of it, that Santorini was heard up to 12 thousand miles away, it reverberated around the 28 times and was detectable for 20 days.

THIS IS NOT FACT. So before anyone pipes up with alternatives I was only using that thought process to give an idea of the scale of the eruption and comparing it to Krakatoa which was an event that was well recorded in history and fairly recent.


In around the Mediterranean where the bibical stories, greek myths, egyptian culture the legends of Troy all flourished the people would have known about Santorini as the volcano will have erupted in the past before it's final epic explosion. Those who did not know, the majority of the people I suppose who had never left their town or village and had little idea of what the greater world was like and no clue what a volcano was...would have created their own version of the events, based them in mythology, blamed them on god and claimed the devastation was a supernatural event.

They would have suffered flood and devastation before...not on such a grand scale...but still these events would have had an effect on cultures and civilisations in the Mediterranean basin, flooding, ash, tsunamis, crop failure being only some of the effects of the eruption.

So think about it. This Volcano was a time bomb in ancient history...people knew it will erupt again it's just a matter of when.

At this point I'm not going to go to deep into the Atlantis theories, the biblical flood stories because Iwan to create some discussion with better researchers than myself but I do feel that if you strip away the complexities of science and stop reading between the lines the truth of the situation is pretty clear.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

[edit on 11-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

[edit on 11-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

[edit on 11-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

More than likely most myths have some connection to a real event. I am still a firm believer that Plato used the Minoans and the eruption of Thera (or rather the flooding of Crete) that wiped them out to make his little Atlantis story.

I was also just reading about a massive meteor impact in the middle east long ago that may have given rise to the stories of apocalypse as told in the Bible/Gilgamesh.

Originally posted by JOHNNYMURDER
See that big hole filled with sea in the middle?
That's a Caldera, it was formed when the Volcano exploded and collapsed into itself.

I'm not a technical guy so I won't quote any actual stats but all the evidence suggest that this explosion was 4 times more powerful than the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883 and this is were science and theory ends and common sense begins.

The 1883 eruption ejected more than 25 cubic kilometres of rock, ash, and pumice and generated the loudest sound ever historically reported — the cataclysmic explosion was distinctly heard as far away as Perth in Australia (approx. 1930 miles or 3100 km), and the island of Rodrigues near Mauritius (approx. 3000 miles or 4800 km). Atmospheric shock waves reverberated around the world seven times and were detectable for five days.

So if Santorini was 4 times as powerful the furthest the explosion was heard was 3000 miles and the shock reverberated around the world 7 times and was detectable for 5 days. We can make an educated guess without getting to the scientific complexities of it, that Santorini was heard up to 12 thousand miles away, it reverberated around the 28 times and was detectable for 20 days.

i'd say the area it would have been heard over would have been around 6,000 miles. Basis for that would be that it is heard over an area, so as it was 4 times bigger it would cover an area 4 times bigger, so 6000 mile radius. I don't know about how it would of reverberated around the world though.

For those like me who like a simple way of describing a volcanoes eruption size, then the eruption was VEI 6, corresponding to 30-40 cubic kilometres of magma.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.decadevolcano.net...

[edit on 11-11-2006 by apex]

Johnny I hate to tell you this but its old hat...I think it has been proven several times now that the eruption at Santorini ended the Minoian civilization and was one of the causes of the collapse of the Myceane culture and the upheavals of the early 1000/900 BC era as well. I am trying to remember the name of the book I read on it but it was several decades ago now.

The volcanic eruption at Santorini/Thera was part of a chain reaction of natural disasters , caused by the passing of an object in space through our solar system, causing gravitational effects on earth I can only speculate about..

Even if it wasn't, it caused disaster all over the Eastern Med .. into Egypt and Israel, causing days of darkness and other things depicted as plagues of Egypt and such.

Some say the Tsunami caused by Santorini, when the tide pulled back into sea, it took the water out of a canal near the Nile Delta where theres numberless canals and streams momentarily, allowing Moses and his people to cross it. I don't know about that one .. heheh. Right place right time? Hey, it happens.

It happened around 1,400 B.C., the eruption itself, they speculate.

[edit on 11/11/2006 by runetang]

[edit on 11/11/2006 by runetang]

causing gravitational effects on earth I can only speculate about..

well keep speculating
I will stick to the known facts in the mean time if thats ok with you
1 of those is that the Exodus is only reported in the Bible
which at best is plaguiarised from known sources
none of which include slaves in Egypt
I expect that you have based your speculation on the KJV
perhaps in future you should actually read the septuagint
its much more fictional in nature

Originally posted by runetang
The volcanic eruption at Santorini/Thera was part of a chain reaction of natural disasters , caused by the passing of an object in space through our solar system, causing gravitational effects on earth I can only speculate about..

Is there any evidence for this, or is it just made up? Also, do you have a link?
It would take an object with a big gravitational field to set off a volcano. If it were that big I think people would have seen it in the sky.

Also, what were the other disasters? And why would they necessarily have been caused by this object passing us by? One natural disaster can effect the next, look at the big quakes in turkey, they set each other off, couldn't volcanoes do it as well?

en.wikipedia.org...

Back in the 40's (I think) a fellow by the name of Velikovsky proposed on his interpations of various writings and myths that Venus was an object (a comet he thought) from outside the solar system that had passed by the earth during the process of being captured by the sun, and the gravitional distortions it caused resulted in all sorts of disasters on earth. At first glimpse it seemed like a good theory but we have come to know far more about the nature of both comets and Venus since...most notiby Venus IS a planet (when he proposed his theory all we could see of it was its cloud cover), if it had wandered in and been captured by the sun its orbital plane would be different than the rest of the planets (like Pluto), and its not, and comets just do not have the mass to have done the damage he claimed just passing close by....if they impacted perhaps but not by a close encounter. I read his books when I was a teen and was fasinated but the more I learned, the more his ideas unraveled for me.

Originally posted by runetang
The volcanic eruption at Santorini/Thera was part of a chain reaction of natural disasters , caused by the passing of an object in space through our solar system, causing gravitational effects on earth I can only speculate about.

Well, you got that last part right. I wonder what you're explanation will be when this volcano explodes again? I mean, the new island in the middle of where the old crater was (called the" little oven" I believe by the locals) is growing at an alarming rate as we speak.

Originally posted by runetangSome say the Tsunami caused by Santorini, when the tide pulled back into sea, it took the water out of a canal near the Nile Delta where theres numberless canals and streams momentarily, allowing Moses and his people to cross it. I don't know about that one .. heheh. Right place right time? Hey, it happens.

Actually, no it doesn't happen. Wrong timeline, according to Biblical scholars. Funny though how they can put a timeline on a story that has absolutely no evidence associated with it.

Originally posted by runetang
It happened around 1,400 B.C., the eruption itself, they speculate.

It's been pretty much established that the eruption occurred shortly before 1600 BC. I posted a new thread here with a source and a link last spring concerning this relatively new and extremely important finding, but apparently nobody but Byrd read it.

Guess I should have put some stuff about ancient astronauts and Biblical giants in the title or something.

Harte

volcano.und.edu...

The eruption of Santorini in Greece in 1,650 B.C. has been verified by Biblical giants and ancient astronauts

[edit on 18-11-2006 by Marduk]

Yet again, another pexample Marduk

You kill a thread by ridiculing someone.

Please feel free to prove what he is saying is wrong...Oh...you can't can you?

It is very annoying for people who love and respect this subject to have some sideshow Jester making a mockery of the entire thing.

Grow up for Gods sake..do you think by posting a link to some random web site that you have proved your point!

I love the fact that people quote rules & regulations and how people should respect for Posters and yet some Nimrods seem to slip through the net.

It is not your job to poke fun and discourage people, it's your job to discuss and try and work with people.

Ok...so this theory was pretty far fetched...but don't ridicule...if you fancy yourself as a stand up comedian I suggest you think about a change of profession.

Originally posted by JOHNNYMURDER
Yet again, another pexample Marduk

You kill a thread by ridiculing someone.

Please feel free to prove what he is saying is wrong...Oh...you can't can you?

...I love the fact that people quote rules & regulations and how people should respect for Posters and yet some Nimrods seem to slip through the net.

It is not your job to poke fun and discourage people, it's your job to discuss and try and work with people.

Ok...so this theory was pretty far fetched...but don't ridicule...if you fancy yourself as a stand up comedian I suggest you think about a change of profession.

I don't get this post at all. Seemed to me that it was my post that was ridiculing more than Marduck's (quaaaack!!)

Johnny, you got some personal problem with the 'Duk? Why didn't you come at me? I'm feeling left out!

As for "...prove(ing) what he is saying is wrong...," why is that necessary? The claim was made. Proving it to be right is the onus (borne, by the way, by the claimant) and not proving it wrong.

I dislike the word "prove" here anyway. I always ask for evidence, since there can be no proof per se. Proof exists only in Mathematics.

Harte

I don't get this post at all. Seemed to me that it was my post that was ridiculing more than Marduck's

and my post was adding fun to yours
Hey Harte you think this guy possibly hasn't got a sense of humour because he doesn't know any of the facts he tends to take himself too seriously
its amusing the hell out of me so far
but I'm waiting for him to step over the line
you know like if he deliberately misspelled my name
that would do it

Originally posted by Marduk

I don't get this post at all. Seemed to me that it was my post that was ridiculing more than Marduck's

and my post was adding fun to yours
Hey Harte you think this guy possibly hasn't got a sense of humour because he doesn't know any of the facts he tends to take himself too seriously
its amusing the hell out of me so far
but I'm waiting for him to step over the line
you know like if he deliberately misspelled my name
that would do it

Yeah. I mean, how insulting to play with a member's username. Hope he don't stoop that low.

Farte

Guys....


Attack the points. Not the presenter.

Originally posted by JOHNNYMURDER
I'm not a technical guy so I won't quote any actual stats but all the evidence suggest that this explosion was 4 times more powerful than the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883 and this is were science and theory ends and common sense begins.

Surprisingly, it's actually in the same class as Krakatoa.
en.wikipedia.org...

So if Santorini was 4 times as powerful the furthest the explosion was heard was 3000 miles and the shock reverberated around the world 7 times and was detectable for 5 days. We can make an educated guess without getting to the scientific complexities of it, that Santorini was heard up to 12 thousand miles away, it reverberated around the 28 times and was detectable for 20 days.

6,000 miles and 14 days. Inverse square law, remember? However, they certainly heard it around the Mediterranean and the impacts were devastating (particularly from the ensuing tsunami.)
(for those of you going "huh?" here's the explaination:
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu... )

Also, for those readers who are wondering "how the heck does sound reverberate 28 days?", this is referring to seismic waves that bounce back and forth through the Earth after an explosion or earthquake or other seismic shock (comet impact.) They can keep going for a month or more:
www.gns.cri.nz...

Wikipedia's got a good summary. There aren't many reports of it, and none in the Egyptian literature (though some argument exists about the "Tempest stelae")
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

(Tempest stele summary is here:
en.wikipedia.org... )

If you're looking at myths, then you need to examine them in context of the eruption of 1650 BC. So we know that the Sumerian Gilgamesh Flood stories are much older than that by about 500 years.

I can't think of any surviving Greek myths that it shows up in directly or anything that sounds vaguely like it. Nor any Egyptian stories/legends. Ditto Sumerian material.

Foster, Ritner, and Foster discuss the known evidence in a frequently cited article :
links.jstor.org...(199601)55%3A1%3C1%3ATSATTE%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q

But there surely were stories. The question is, how did they evolve from eyewitnes accounts and into what did they evolve? But the explosion comes too late to be a source of Flood stories.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Byrd]