rise of nazies in germany?

Enough. The both of you have been asked politely three times now, by myself and a senior staff member, to stop the bickering and return to the topic. If you wish to continue your quarreling, then by all means feel free to do so by U2U, but you will NOT hijack public threads and turn them into your personal slapping contest. The next poster to post personal snipes will be warned and/or post-banned. Post on topic, or don't post at all. Thank you.

Originally posted by snafu7700
well, obviously not enough. you said that the individuals in question were "socialist nationalists" and, as i have shown, the word "nazi" is derived from the "national socialist german workers party."

let's see, socialist nationalist vs national socialist. please explain the difference.

Butting in here but what part of socialist nationalist's don't you like? I mean the western media has a love in with socialism so it must be the nationalist part then??

Since when is nationalism a problem.. err or is it counter to globalism?

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Butting in here but what part of socialist nationalist's don't you like? I mean the western media has a love in with socialism so it must be the nationalist part then??

personally, i dont have a problem with either philosophy by themselves. the two together become the foundation of the nazi party. this is what he said in his post:

Originally posted by IAF101
Also its not like these people are Nazi's( like they want to take over Europe or something! ) they are just socialist nationalists...

i'm pointing out that his comments are oxymoronic, and would like an explanation as to how "its not like [nationalist socialists] are nazi's", when the term "nazi" is derived from the name "national socialist german workers party." since you decided to jump in, maybe you can answer the question DTSQ....because it just doesnt make sense to me.

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Butting in here but what part of socialist nationalist's don't you like? I mean the western media has a love in with socialism so it must be the nationalist part then??

personally, i dont have a problem with either philosophy by themselves. the two together become the foundation of the nazi party. this is what he said in his post:

Originally posted by IAF101
Also its not like these people are Nazi's( like they want to take over Europe or something! ) they are just socialist nationalists...

i'm pointing out that his comments are oxymoronic, and would like an explanation as to how "its not like [nationalist socialists] are nazi's", when the term "nazi" is derived from the name "national socialist german workers party." since you decided to jump in, maybe you can answer the question DTSQ....because it just doesnt make sense to me.

personally, i dont have a problem with either philosophy by themselves. the two together become the foundation of the nazi party. this is what he said in his post:

This personally doesnt make much sense, the old philosophy of the nazi party was to kill the jews. If you want to look at this notice this (say that the munich temple was rebuilt). This suddenly stirrs anger in these people for some reason because they are physically against it. Why they are against it, is up to them, but for some reason they are hating the left wing and they are gaining far more support. After all it’s a socialist party.

Also its not like these people are Nazi's( like they want to take over Europe or something! ) they are just socialist nationalists who want jobs and dont want immigrants forming ghettos and turning parts of their cities and country into places they dont feel welcome!

Personally it doesn’t matter what people want now these days whatever people want with what they cost other people it always brings more pain. Why is it if that if they want jobs that they are causing social and civil unrest? Real citizens of their countries are proud and things don’t work that way. This rise in the national socialist regime could spell turmoil for germany.

Originally posted by rachel07
As a Judeau-Christian, and being from a long-line of immigrants through religious persecution this rise in Nazism scares the hell out of me. I recognise Islam as one of the Abrahamic faiths, along with Judaism and Christianity.

I have already been persecuted for being a Jewess from my former neighbour's daughter. I have been terrorised in my own home when I listen to music in Hebrew.

How am I going to be treated now that I have all three holy books from all three Abrahamic faiths.

I am British-born, as is my mother. My dad is American and was born in Texas. As I am disabled; I, also get problems from people relating to my disability.

This hatred towards me is unfounded and unwarranted. I have never shown hatred towards those who hate me without cause.

Hate stems from fear of the unknown, or myths about a person or their religion.

I read the Bible, my prayerbook, and the Quaran. So if somebody is going to persecute me for recognising all three Abrahamic faiths what grounds are they going to hate me under. I am not of any consequence, or threat.

The hatred from these Neo-Nazis isn't just aimed at the Jewish nation, but anybody that doesn't fit into their idealism. I have family in Germany and I would hate for them to be attacked just based on their existance.

What gives these Neo-Nazis the right to decide who stays and who goes; who has the right to live and the right to die. To me, they are nothing but terrorists.

Nice post, but your post still doesn’t cover what is being brought up in the topic. They are terrorists to us but to them they are doing something right.

And They're Not Out Of The Woods, Yet !



**BIG BROTHER ALERT**

The Rise of Japan's Thought Police


Anywhere else, it might have played out as just another low-stakes battle between policy wonks. But in Japan, a country struggling to find a brand of nationalism that it can embrace, a recent war of words between a flamboyant newspaper editorialist and an editor at a premier foreign-policy think tank was something far more alarming: the latest assault in a campaign of right-wing intimidation of public figures that is squelching free speech and threatening to roll back civil society.

On Aug. 12, Yoshihisa Komori -- a Washington-based editorialist for the ultra-conservative Sankei Shimbun newspaper -- attacked an article by Masaru Tamamoto, the editor of Commentary, an online journal run by the Japan Institute of International Affairs. The article expressed concern about the emergence of Japan's strident new "hawkish nationalism," exemplified by anti-China fear-mongering and official visits to a shrine honoring Japan's war dead. Komori branded the piece "anti-Japanese," and assailed the mainstream author as an "extreme leftist intellectual

But he didn't stop there. Komori demanded that the institute's president, Yukio Satoh, apologize for using taxpayer money to support a writer who dared to question Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's annual visits to the Yasukuni Shrine, in defiance of Chinese protests that it honors war criminals from World War II.

Remarkably, Satoh complied. Within 24 hours, he had shut down Commentary and withdrawn all of the past content on the site -- including his own statement that it should be a place for candid discourse on Japan's foreign-policy and national-identity challenges. Satoh also sent a letter last week to the Sankei editorial board asking for forgiveness and promising a complete overhaul of Commentary's editorial management.

The capitulation was breathtaking. But in the political atmosphere that has overtaken Japan, it's not surprising. Emboldened by the recent rise in nationalism, an increasingly militant group of extreme right-wing activists who yearn for a return to 1930s-style militarism, emperor-worship and "thought control" have begun to move into more mainstream circles -- and to attack those who don't see things their way.

Just last week, one of those extremists burned down the parental home of onetime prime ministerial candidate Koichi Kato, who had criticized Koizumi's decision to visit Yasukuni this year. Several years ago, the home of Fuji Xerox chief executive and Chairman Yotaro "Tony" Kobayashi was targeted by handmade firebombs after he, too, voiced the opinion that Koizumi should stop visiting Yasukuni. The bombs were dismantled, but Kobayashi continued to receive death threats. The pressure had its effect. The large business federation that he helps lead has withdrawn its criticism of Koizumi's hawkishness toward China and his visits to Yasukuni, and Kobayashi now travels with bodyguards.

In 2003, then-Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister Hitoshi Tanaka discovered a time bomb in his home. He was targeted for allegedly being soft on North Korea. Afterward, conservative Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara contended in a speech that Tanaka "had it coming."

Another instance of free-thinking-meets-intimidation involved Sumiko Iwao, an internationally respected professor emeritus at Keio University. Right-wing activists threatened her last February after she published an article suggesting that much of Japan is ready to endorse female succession in the imperial line; she issued a retraction and is now reportedly lying low.

Such extremism raises disturbing echoes of the past. In May 1932, Japanese Prime Minister Tsuyoshi Inukai was assassinated by a group of right-wing activists who opposed his recognition of Chinese sovereignty over Manchuria and his staunch defense of parliamentary democracy. In the post-World War II era, right-wing fanatics have largely lurked in the shadows, but have occasionally threatened those who veer too close to or speak too openly about sensitive topics concerning Japan's national identity, war responsibility or imperial system.

What's alarming and significant about today's intimidation by the right is that it's working -- and that it has found some mutualism in the media. Sankei's Komori has no direct connection to those guilty of the most recent acts, but he's not unaware that his words frequently animate them -- and that their actions in turn lend fear-fueled power to his pronouncements, helping them silence debate. What's worse, neither Japan's current prime minister nor Shinzo Abe, the man likely to succeed him in next month's elections, has said anything to denounce those trying to stifle the free speech of Japan's leading moderates.

There are many more cases of intimidation. I have spoken to dozens of Japan's top academics, journalists and government civil servants in the past few days; many of them pleaded with me not to disclose this or that incident because they feared violence and harassment from the right. One top political commentator in Japan wrote to me: "I know the right-wingers are monitoring what I write and waiting to give me further trouble. I simply don't want to waste my time nor energy for these people."

Japan needs nationalism. But it needs a healthy nationalism -- not the hawkish, strident variety that is lately forcing many of the country's best lights to dim their views.

By Steven Clemons

[email protected]

Steven Clemons is director of the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation and co-founder of the Japan Policy Research Institute.

Washington Post


Fascism can rise in any country. America is no exception. It rises faster, where it is freer. We must always be aware and inoculate each succeeding to the dangers of fascism. There is more danger from the right than the left because the right is already close to power by it's very nature.

My favorite quote is from Thomas Jefferson:"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance"

There is a rise of fascism in Russia, China, and Religious Fascism in America.

Originally posted by Mdv2

In Germany, some neighborhoods are almost entirely populated by Germans from Arabic origin. So? In the US many neighborhoods are almost entirely populated by Black Americans or Latin Americans. What does it matter? Explain it to me, just a different skin colour?

Pu your self in the shopes of a german. What do you see? the anihilation of your culture come to mind?

Europe is for arabs nowadays and the problem is going to get worse.....

and no.... being from arabia and speaking german does not make you anymore german than sticking feathers up your butt and clucking makes you a chicken.

Liberalism is a failed concept, just as communism was a failed concept.

when there are no more germans left, where do you think these "arabic german's" loyalties will lie? to germany? to europe? I hope your not that naive.

Conquering by out breeding your enemy seems to be an effective tactic.

All eyes on Nazi Teerrorist,

There will not be a repeat of the second world war, we have learned our lesson from history, if nazis want to have another go they had better think twice yhis time thier utter destruction will come even quicker

And another thing when the russians envaded germany they raped more or less every available german woman alive along with allied soldiers doing their bit as well, so most germans are not that german after all.

Not to mention the largest american base outside of america is in germany ready to pounce.

G'day all,

Let me begin by asking you all the following question - "What is wrong with being a patriot and loving your country the way it is and trying to keep it the way it used to be?"

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your nation, your culture and your heritage. What you are all complaining about here is the fact that German youth a using this avenue to express their frustration and disenchantment to their governments policies and lack of action with their economy, immigration and various other policies. This is where disenchantment and hatred breeds.

When government don't listen to the wishes and thoughts of their public, then the public starts up their own groups who have a grass-roots support base in many working class areas of society. As someone had previously mentioned, try and put yourselves in the Germans shoes - your governments policies have been to increase immigration from other countries and the results have been a large influx of immigrants from the middle east - immigrants who DO NOT assimilate into german society, who live in ghettoes and only mix with their own, thus removing any chance they may have of learning the german language and/or culture through day to day experiences, whilst getting tax-payer funded benefits from the German government.....WHO WOULDNT BE PEE'D OFF ?

We here in Australia have the same problem (If thats how you call it), every European based culture to have immigranted here on-mass since the '50's has very successfully assimilated into everyday Australian society. Given you get a minor percentage who refuse to. But when you look at the influx of Vietnamese refugees in the early '90's, the Turks, and Lebanese, you do not get the same ingrediants in their societies that allow them to assimilate as successfully as other's. Thus you get large gettoes, suburbs actually that you try and not go to because you yourself become the MINORITY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY when you travel to these places and are treated as a second class citizen when entering their business.

Which is why there breeds racial tension, and hatred, when migrants who do not want to assimilate, live in ghettoes, stick to their own ways (when if we were to go to their home-countries we would have to live by their laws), get government subsidies and hand-outs, then protest against the country that they NOW live in (when it would be highly illegal to protest in their country of origin) and then go on to burn the flags of the nation that has now welcomed them and is supporting them.

Now you tell me, honestly, would you highly agitated by these things or not? I know I am, and I'm man enough to admit to it, where others hide.

Every nation has these concerns and problems; the bottom line is, we are all different and some are from highly opposed societies who will never be able to integrate, which is where government policy is wrong. We should be looking at building harmonious societies and if that means dissallowing a group of people to enter your nation....then so be it.

Just look at the problems in social harmony you have in the states with the hispanic gangs, many including illegal immigrants, aswell as Black african gangs running around shooting up each other over drugs or pitty things. How peeved off would you be if a family member was shot in the crossfire by illegal immigrants. Where would your loyalties lie then?

What about Israel, they are not innocent of this either, and Im not sorry if I can any of you israeli lovers here upset, for the truth does hurt, doesn't it. Isrtaeli government policy has consistently worked against the Palestinians in their territory, from removing electricity and water alllocation to the palestinian suburbs to changing the colour of Palestinian vehicle numberplates to notify all who drive who is in the car. How about the genocide of around 10 million Palestinians and Arabs in the 5 years after the creation of Israel, during Israel's initial imperialist policies?

So much for hypocricy and calling Germans "Nazi's", when they who have felt the sword, resort to using that same sword themselves!

People, do not look at what is on the surface, but to understand the reasoning to why things are the way they are, delve a little deeper, to the root cause of societies problems and not to quicly react on the heading of a story.

I hope you all understand where I am coming from. Sorry for dragging it out. Have a nice day!

We are all people, we all have 2 legs 2 arms and were all human.
Personaly I think that someone that go's in a foreign country should have respect
for the people that are from there and gain that respect, in return he should be rewarded with the same respect as long as he deserves it.
If I go let's say to another country and I say , it's democracy I can do what I want, and I set an example for the rest of the people coming from my country.
Besides democacy there is cultural diffrence, customs that people are related to from their culture, way of life, it's hard to gain respect today as an imigrant, but not imposible, I think it's also the duty of an imigrant to try an ajust where his going with the culture and at first to try to be polite even if it's not the most great time of his life.
If I only come to your country to make money and I don't give a [snip] about you and your culture how would you feel?
That's where things start to stink.
I think comunication is the number one problem, people don't talk to each other, they just keep quiet and justify their actions as being right.
It's culture also that is a problem, but it can be overcomed by comunication, because in the end were all homosapiens.

Mod Edit: removed censor circumvention
Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by sanctum]

Any person of Nazism, Hatred or anything that provokes such within a community should be hung in the town square.

These people are nothing more than weak, pathetic mindless fools, who seem only willing to stand up and declare their legion, based on past events.

They wernt present when the 'real' nazism came to be, they dont know the feeling the country had when it stated its allegience, a postiive feeling of future ambitions... shatterd by a mad mans desire, it started out positive, but moulded into a horrid evil. They are simply doing it for the horrors it envokes.. and that is not a worthy reason to be able to enjoy life on earth with fellow humans.


So the man down the streets arab, or polish or italian.

Does he not have the same amount of ears? eyes?
Does he not talk from his mouth, see with his eyes and think with his head?

Why all this hatred for the colour of his skin, and the accent in his voice?

Neo Nazi's should offer other people an olive branch of peace,and a hand in friendship.
After the horrors they committed, if we were able to forgive and make up, theirs no reason they cant.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I think comunication is the number one problem, people don't talk to each other, they just keep quiet and justify their actions as being right.
It's culture also that is a problem, but it can be overcomed by comunication, because in the end were all homosapiens.

Yes i agree culture and communication are problems to be overcome, i'm a strong believer whhen in Rome do as the romans or get OUT.

But people are usually quiet when first moving to another country not understanding the language and customs, it taks time to learn, also Who would jump into integration in germany when the natives are so hostile towards you.

My cousine went to east gemany a little while ago and he said in some places none whites "europeans" could not go out after six or seven at evening due to hate crimes by Nazi Facist and the police are no help probably being Nazi sympathiesers.

I don't blame alot of these minorities for keeping to themselves especially when your living in a so called free country (democracy) and you have to observe a curfew put in place by murderers and would not go to many a place for the same said reasons, just look what happened to the jews when they tried to intergrate nough said on that.

When are people going to wake upsmell the coffee and see the Nazis for who they truely are, terrorist, racist, murdering extremist who don't want none germans in their country weather they integrate or NOT. Further more Nazis want world domination with all none bloned haired blue eyed white skined people sent to death camps for slave lobour and a swift execution oh and torture.

As G.W Bush would say they are part of the axis of evil and a cancer to human kind that must be removed, Hiding behind pariotism or socialism or what ever ism, just aint good enouth, i see them for who they really are, their ideals have not change since 1945 and make no mistake should they be allowed to grow unchecked we will face another world war.

If you are not blue eyed an bloned haired with pale skin then your in trouble if nazis got thier way. The idiots still worship Hister, the damned fools.

I for one cannot sympathise with a group who bombed my coutry and treatened our existence and the existence of most of the human race due to some twisted backward ideology.

Just a few statistics for those who thick nazis are OK.

By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1 And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths.

AND MORE

In total, the war killed 28,736,000 Europeans, a fantastic number. But the democide of Hitler alone adds 20,946,000 more. Were Stalin's democide during the war of 13,053,000 people3 to be included, the number of people murdered by just the Nazis and Soviets alone would exceed the total European war-dead.

AND

As high as this human cost of the Nazis was for the Germans, it was higher for the countries they invaded and occupied, particularly in the East. Not only did the Nazis eliminate actual critics and opponents as a matter of course, but they also prevented any serious potential opposition by simply exterminating the top leadership, intellectuals, and professionals. Besides Jews, the Germans murdered near 2,400,000 Poles, 3,000,000 Ukrainians, 1,593,000 Russians, and 1,400,000 Byelorussians, many of these among the best and the brightest men and women. The Nazis killed in cold blood nearly one out of every six Polish or Soviet citizens, including Jews, under their rule.

AND

These genocides cost the lives of probably 16,315,000 people. Most likely the Nazis wiped out 5,291,000 Jews, 258,000 Gypsies, 10,547,000 Slavs, and 220,000 homosexuals. They also "euthanized" 173,500 handicapped Germans. Then in repression, terrorism, reprisals, and other cold-blooded killings done to impose and maintain their rule throughout Europe, the Nazis murdered more millions including French, Dutch, Serbs, Slovenes, Czechs, and others. In total, they likely annihilated 20,946,000 human beings.

Sorry for all that ext but heres the source www.hawaii.edu...

20,946,000 Victims:
Nazi Germany
1933 To 1945

By R.J. Rummel

You might find this interesting!

*Germany*
Anti-fascism protestors
Thousands of people gathered near the nation's biggest World War II soldiers' cemetery on Saturday to protest against far-right extremism. Demonstrators formed a human chain near the cemetery in Halbe, and heard speeches from politicians and musicians at a rally. "No more fascism and no more war -- all democrats in Germany must stand up for that," said Matthias Platzeck, governor of the state of Brandenburg. Some 700 far-right supporters gathered on Saturday at another war-era cemetery in Seelow, about 100km further east. Politicians are vowing to step up efforts to counter the spread of far-right ideology, especially in the east.

www.taipeitimes.com...

Reaper2,

Just a quick question for you - yeah, the NAZI's might have killed alot of peopleduring their reign and I am not at all condoning their actions, but lets take a look at the mordern day equivalent.......the State of Israel !

Yes, the uproar of protest is almost deafening, but why is that so? Because the truth hurts, the truth is always supressed by a one sided media. Lets go over afew facts here about the new "Jewish-NAZI's" of our current times -

Israel doesn't allow Palestinians native to the area within the state of Israel full israeli citizenship

Israel requires Palestinians to have different colour number plates on their vehicles

Hows this quote-

""The Arabs are worms. You find them everywhere like worms, underground as well as above."

-- Yehiel Hazan, parliamentary leader of the biggest lobby group for Jewish colonists illegally settling in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip."
www.subzeroblue.com...

"Over 80 percent of the land within Israel that was once owned by Palestinians has been confiscated."
www.globalresearch.ca...

"Article II of the 1948 Genocide Convention defines the international crime of genocide as follows:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. [Emphasis added.]

Certainly, Palestine has a valid claim that Israel and its predecessors-in-law--the Zionist Agencies and Forces--have committed genocide against the Palestinian People that actually started in 1948 and has continued apace until today in violation of Genocide Convention Article II(a), (b), and (c), inter alia. "
www.mediamonitors.net...

"The term "genocide" was created by Raphael Lemkin in 1943. Genocide became an international term of law with the United Nations' adoption of the Convention on Genocide in 1948. Retrospectively, we now realize that the concept of genocide could be applied to the Armenian slaughter or the massacre of European Jews by the Nazis.
Today the civilized world's only practitioners of genocide are the Israelis. Golda Meir was known for her comment that Palestine was seized "by a People without a land," because it was "a land without a people." Actually, "people" had inhabited the land mass of Palestine since the dawn of civilization. The concept of a "land without a people" was a racist and genocidal concoction that Meir used to justify Israeli expansionism."
www.politicalgateway.com...

Assennara [Arab Israeli journal] learned from reliable sources that the Israeli government in the late 50s and early 60s prepared a plan to limit the "birth rate" of the Arabs who remained in the country [after the 1948 war] in an effort to solve the demographic problems resulting from the increasing growth ratio among Arabs; which the Israeli government though of as a security danger that threatened the demographic balance in the country.

The sources said that the Israeli government under the leadership of Ben Gurion and with consultations from experts reviewed a proposal of "birth control" among Arabs, not for the sake of the Arab family welfare but in order to limit their numbers and banish whatever the government could amidst concerns of low numbers of Jews in the country, then."
www.jewwatch.com...

Now how about some more history on jewish atrocities -

The Russian Revolution -
In 1917 the Russian revolution broke out and overthrew the Czarist government. This was done by a hard core of Jewish terrorists, trained by the Jew, Leon Trotsky, in New York's East Side. In large part it was financed by Jacob Schiff, a Jewish multimillionaire at the head of the Wall Street banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Co. Among other Jews, he contributed $20,000,000.00 toward the success of the Russian revolution.

On August 30, 1918 the Jew, Uritzky, who was then head of the Cheka, the Jewish secret police in Russia, was assassinated and Lenin was wounded. The Bolsheviks used this as an excuse for instituting the Red Terror, which began the following day, and which in a sense has continued nor for more than 50 years. The entire membership of the Communist Party, which in 1918 numbered perhaps no more than 100,000, was turned into a Jewish instrument of murder. Its purpose was two-fold: to inspire dread and horror among the Russian masses, and to exterminate the middle and upper classes, namely the best of the leadership. This leadership formerly consisted almost entirely of the White Russians.

Men and women were executed or imprisoned not because of any offense, but simply because they belonged to what the Jews considered as potential leadership class.

The Jews moved rapidly to exterminate the Gentile leader class of the entire nation by murdering every White factory owner, lawyer, and government leader, army officer, and every other person who had been, or might be, a potential leader. Every church and cathedral was gutted and every priest and teacher became a criminal in his own community. The standing population of the slave labor camps soon reached an excess of 15,000,000.

It is a long, grisly story, but in summation some 20,000,000 of the White Russian leadership class were butchered and murdered, in accordance with the directives of the Jewish Talmud "

Jewsih aristocracy in Russia was behind the great famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine where in excess of 8-9million people starved to death.

Over 11 million native arabs in Palestine where executed or killed during the wars immediately after the creation of Israel in imperialistic policies created by the newly formed government.

So there you have it, create a statistical total of the total number of deaths by both NAZI's and by JEWS throughout the last century and the 6million thats died during the holocaust will pale in number to those that have died under the Star of David.

This is not an anti -semitic dogma, but a review of statistical facts that many would rather ignore!

Indeed melbourne you have a point and a very good one at that, i would not say the jew are like the nazis but more likt white south africas aparthied, adding that isreal has been compared to aparthied in some studies.
Saying that, Isreal (jews) have almost complete American Backing and who can speak out against america without some consequences like being branded a terrorist! and then being bombed into the stone age.

I must agree with you for the most part on your above post, but it's a whole other thread in it self as it's a little off topic.

I feel the argument for and against isreal are very problamatic, and who can condemn them without being hypocrits certainly not america or the uk. Mmmm maybe Australians might get away with it ..

Originally posted by reaper2

I feel the argument for and against isreal are very problamatic, and who can condemn them without being hypocrits certainly not america or the uk. Mmmm maybe Australians might get away with it ..

Reaper2,

Mate, all I can say is, I wish my government had the BALLS to stand up to what was right and what was wrong, not to succumb to the bulls#@t politics by that US puppet Bush and his Israeli overlords.

Mate, those Israeli must rwally have Bush by the balls,because he would bend over backwards to defend them.....for what?

He preaches "justice, righteousness, democracy, freedome for all", what a load of crap! For what he preaches he himself overlooks in the case of the Israeli-palestinian conflict. The last US president to stand up to the Israeli administration didnt last long did he? (J.F.Kennedy)

I'd be willing to support the opposition here in Australia fi it were willing to stand up to the worng of this world, wehter they be US instigated or Israeli. It is a shame that nations in these times dont feel they can express the will of their own people but have to support the will of another nation to feel secure in this world - do you get my drift?