Allens Revenge

Senator George Allen has executed a press release condemning his opponents deviant fictional writings, which degrade women among other things.

I will not give a link to this since the content is graphic, and I'm not sure about policies on such. But it is up on very popular web sites.

I'm sure that Webb will try and hide behind some journalistic right or something. None the less, degrading half the voters is never a good way to go! Not to mention the pedophilia aspects of his writings.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

Careful now...

Your criticizing a Democrat and I'm not sure that is allowed...

I would love to see the entire article, can you U2U me a link?

Semper

ps. I promise I'm at least 18....



S

I'm sure that Webb will try and hide behind some journalistic right or something. None the less, degrading half the voters is never a good way to go! Not to mention the pedophilia aspects of his writings.

Nevermind that Webb actually served our country, won a medal of honor while doing it, and was drawing from real experiences to create a novel with an accurate depiction of some of the 'not so nice' things that happen:

Second, Webb talked about how "the duty of a writer is to illuminate his surroundings," noting that he is a "serious writer" who has "made my career as a novelist." Webb blasted the Allen campaign for its "smear after smear," pulling excerpts out of context and "pound[ing] people over the head" in classic Karl Rove fashion...

Fifth, Webb pointed out that the scene Mark Plotkin referred to is the sort of thing that "hundreds of thousands of military men" in places like Vietnam and Thailand have experienced. More broadly, this is what a novelist does, depicting how the "human species behaves" with all its good and bad parts. [Note by Lowell: if George Allen ever READ great fiction, he might know that!]

Sixth, Webb explained that his novels were not "Tropic of Capricorn" style novels, but that his books "go after themes" and aim to show "how the world lives."

Without the links to those externals your quoting, it's hard to figure out exactly what your talking about.

Personally, I don't care about his military history. Being an Ace in Vietnam didn't do anything for Cunningham and rightly so. Foley went down behind writing garbage too, and rightly so. So sorry, but I don't do SELECTIVE moral outrage. It's either clean or it's dirty IMO.

This is yet another case of spin. It appeared when I first read about it that Webb was trying to use the old Tarintino defense of "well, pedophilia exists, so it is my responsibility as an author to graphically depict it!"

It turns out this is not the case and just goes to show how negative both campaigns are this mid-term election. Webb was describing a practice that is (oddly) very common in Cambodia to depict love and respect to a child. Typically it is a mother doing such an act to her son, and only until he turns 1. Even so, just as the spin done against Cheney and Libby for their books that had some graphic sections in them, the spin here against Webb is unfair.

That could very well be a cultural snafu. But the degradation of women may be a different situation. Due to the fact that you can't so easily tie pornographic situations to any culture in particular. It is pervasive throughout mankind. The only question is: How does each individual deal with it?

Without the links to those externals your quoting, it's hard to figure out exactly what your talking about.

I provided the links to both sources in the text... it may not be what you're used to but it is an accepted style.

I provided the links to both sources in the text... it may not be what you're used to but it is an accepted style.

My Bad, Sorry 'bout that.

I'll stand with the rest of the post. Any comments?

Foley went down behind writing garbage too, and rightly so. So sorry, but I don't do SELECTIVE moral outrage. It's either clean or it's dirty IMO.

So, you don't see any difference between Foley - who addressed his sexually charged material towards underaged boys, and Webb - who was recounting horrific events he witnessed while at war in a fictional novel?

You do know that Webb's novels aren't considered pornographic -- and that the sexually charged scences aren't meant to make you feel aroused -- but disgusted, right?

It seems to me that in the case of Foley we are talking about a sexual predator and in the case of Webb we are not.

Maybe I have my partisan blinders on today, but I see a clear distinction.

Have you read Webb's books? Do you know the context in which those passages were presented? With Foley, the context is pretty clear. He was hitting on underaged pages.

The sexual scenes in Webb's books are horrific events witnessed while in vietnam. They are used in the context of the novel to illustrate just how bad things really are/were over there....

Listen, Outrage IS the appropriate response to the passages in Webb's novels. It's just that the outrage shouldn't be directed at Webb for recounting those experiences. The reason they are in there is to evoke outrage -- outrage and dismay at a civilization that would allow this type of thing to take place -- or that has denigrated that far.

Now, you want to talk about 'apples to apples' hypocrisy?

Remember the Ad the RNC ran against Rep. Harold Ford (D) down in Tennessee?

Well...

It turns out that the Republican National Committee is a regular recipient of political contributions from Nicholas T. Boyias, the owner and CEO of Marina Pacific Distributors, one of the largest producers and distributors of gay porn in the United States.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by zoopnfunk]

Well before we brand the Republican Party as the Racist Party..

Let us examine these..

Mahatma Gandhi "ran a gas station down in Saint Louis."

-Senator Hillary Clinton

"You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian Accent."
-Senator Joe Biden

Some junior high n"word" kicked Steve's ass while he was trying to help his brothers out; junior high or sophomore in high school. Whatever it was, Steve had the n"word" down. However it was, it was Steve's fault. He had the n"word" down, he let him up. The n"word" blindsided him."

-- Roger Clinton, the President's brother on audiotape

You'd find these potentates from down in Africa, you know, rather than eating each other, they'd just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva."
-- Fritz Hollings (D, S.C.)

"Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey's cars?"
- Left-wing radio host Neil Rogers

(On Clarence Thomas) "A handkerchief-head, chicken-and-biscuit-eating Uncle Tom." -- Spike Lee

He's married to a white woman. He wants to be white. He wants a colorless society. He has no ethnic pride. He doesn't want to be black."

-- California State Senator Diane Watson's on Ward Connerly's interracial marriage

"Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."

-- Former Klansman and current US Senator Robert Byrd, a man who is referred to by many Democrats as the "conscience of the Senate", in a letter written in 1944, after he quit the KKK.
~~~~~~~

I'll have those n"word"'s voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

-- Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One according Ronald Kessler's Book, "Inside The White House"
~~~~~~~

"You "f"*%%$#$ Jew "b"@^^%$#." -- Hillary Clinton to political operative Paul Fray. This was revealed in "State of a Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton" and has been verified by Paul Fray and three witnesses
~~~~~~~

(I) "will not let the white boys win in this election."
-- Donna Brazile, Al Gore's Campaign Manager on the 2000 election
~~~~~~~

"There are white n*"word". I've seen a lot of white n*"word" in my time." -- Former Klansman and Current US Senator Robert Byrd, a man who is referred to by many Democrats as the "conscience of the Senate" in March of 2001
~~~~~~~

"The white race is the cancer of human history." -- Susan Sontag

hiphoprepublican.com...
~~~~~~~

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean yesterday said that Maryland's Democratic ticket should have had a black or other minority at the top, but added that the national party isn't to blame for the lack of diversity.


Judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin is not a Democrat policy, obviously. But it never was, of course. Martin Luther King was a Republican and George Wallace was a Democrat.
stoptheaclu.com...
~~~~~~~

In the speech Hollings described the Republican president as "confused" and asserted that Eisenhower had done "great damage to peace and good order" by supporting the rights of minorities to protest segregation at the lunch counters.
~~~~~~~

Billy McKinney: Former Democrat State Representative Billy McKinney of Georgia, who is also the father of former Democrat congresswoman Cynthia McKinney of the same state. During his daughter's failed 2002 reelection bid, McKinney appeared on television where he blamed his daughter's difficulties on a Jewish conspiracy. McKinney unleashed a string of anti-semitic sentiments, stating "This is all about the Jews" and spelling out "J-E-W-S." McKinney lost his own seat in a runoff a few weeks later.
~~~~~~~
members.tripod.com...

Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican.
Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log.
www.washtimes.com...
~~~~~~~

Well as you can see the list is endless...

So Let's refrain from pasting the Racist Name on the Republican Party...

Semper

posted by zoopnfunk
The sexual scenes in Webb's books are horrific events witnessed while in vietnam. They are used in the context of the novel to illustrate just how bad things really are/were over there....

This point is well taken. I think the problem is his consistent denegration of women throughout his writings. It's not just the Vietnam references that are being brought into the light. He has actually apologized for an article he wrote about women in the military.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

posted by zoopnfunk
The sexual scenes in Webb's books are horrific events witnessed while in vietnam. They are used in the context of the novel to illustrate just how bad things really are/were over there....

This point is well taken. I think the problem is his consistent denegration of women throughout his writings. It's not just the Vietnam references that are being brought into the light. He has actually apologized for an article he wrote about women in the military.

Your response to his writing is so odd and a little perverse to me. I'm sure you would agree (or hope you would) that again, his repeated description of mistreatment of women, and other issues, is his cry out to bring it to peoples attention and for people to do something about it.

Why do you insist on shooting the messenger? Instead why don't you help to solve the problem he brings to your attention in his works? ? It's almost like you're saying 'Hey! Don't remove my blinders! I like it here in the dark.'

The Lord will reward you by helping, not hindering.



[edit on 29-10-2006 by jupiter869]

I'm sorry. You must not have read my post. He's APOLOGIZED for some of his stuff. Apparently he sees something you won't.

before we brand the Republican Party as the Racist Party..

That really was not my intention... rather it was to illustrate a more clear example of a 'double standard, or hypocricy during this particular election cycle. To be fair, the local republican candidate denounced the ad and asked for it to be pulled. The RNC did not comply.

I had not read the bit about Webb apologizing for remarks made about women... I will have to do some more research before I can comment more thoroughly. My initial thoughts are Virginia may have a choice between a racist or a sexist -- what a choice -- unfortunatly it is all too reflective of American politics in general... Just business as usual.

I found this tidbit on dailyKos:

Fields of Fire, the book that the Allen campaign and Matt Drudge think is "obscene", is on the United States Marine Corps reading list for professional development.

I just thought it was pertinent to this discussion.

Jim Webb is a soldier's champion.

Allen's interests lies with corporacracy and being a career politician.

Norfolk's navy population could sway this one, regardless of all the campaign shenannigans going on.

Code Pink, Like Cindy Sheehan?


Sorry, I don't buy into the whole, 'Just drop your weapon and the criminal will too' mentality.

Proud Friend of Israel, like Macacawitz?

Now why would someone obviously intelligent enough to make it all the way to the US Senate not even know his family heritage? Or pretend not to... for public consumption?

Allen's a lawyer wannabe-yahoo masquerading as a good ole boy. Not exactly Atticus Finch. And I thought I couldn't stand Rick Santorum, who I feel a little sorry for after seeing his little girl cry. That was a sweet kiss he gave her during his concession speech.

She probably doesn't even remember Pittsburgh.

At least with Webb (the ex-republican), we'll have someone who knows his way around the Pentagon and Defense Dept, NSA, and WH. He needs to be assigned immediately to defense and intelligence oversight committees.

I could see him leading the way out of the quagmire in Iraq too. With a real plan, not just the one to make the most contractors and investors the most money on oil and pipeline revenues.

But one that supports our troops the way they deserve to be supported.

I guess Webb really paid for any comments he said about women in the military or writing those oh so baaaaaad books. And he paid how? "Bam...."


www.foxnews.com...

Thats how he paid!!!!!!!!!