How do we fix the population problem facing humanity?

Originally posted by donwhite

posted by resistor

The lack of compassion for the poor and uneducated of the world that I read in this thread is quite depressing, but not too surprising. The value placed on human life seems to be dropping particularly the value of the lives of 'our enemies.' I wonder how many people are aware of the sources of such views. One source is the philosophy of eugenics.

For those wringing their hands over how many children others are having; not to worry, a nice nuclear exchange should do the trick, a prospect looking more likely by the day. [Edited by Don W]

We tried eugenics in the US in the 1920s and 1930s. In the case of young girls living in state facilities, and with great mental deficiency were surgically spayed. I do not know if the similarity situated males were surgically castrated, but as we had not yet developed the vasectomy, I would guess they were.

Our Supreme Court struck down those statutes not because they found violations of a right of privacy as was found 2 decades later in Roe v. Wade, but on the grounds the statutes did not have sufficiently detailed standards, leaving too much to the unguided discretion of the custodians. By that time, the popularity of eugenics had waned and so, the sterilization laws were not re-enacted. We still warehouse those people, but we use thorozine or methadone as our custodians. Understaffed facilities and under treated as the rule, no one mentions their plight. Victims of the demise of the extended family.

You know, back before the 1910s and maybe as late as the 1950s, when a severely handicapped child was born, it was expected of the delivery doctor that he set the infant aside, to die. The mother was informed the child had been still-born. As medical technology has advanced, we now routinely “save” infants born around 1 lb. At 2 lbs. a child is not particularly noteworthy. There have been instances where hospitals closed their maternity wards after having to bear the expense of one of those 24 week babies. Of course, our health care system is completely broken. Despite spending $5,500 for every man, woman and child in the country. And we go blithely on our way! If you say “social” and “medicine” in the same sentence, you must be a communist or maybe a terrorist! God Bless America!

First, thanks for correcting my poor spelling!

Eugenics goes far beyond euthanasia or the neutering of the mentally deficient. If you checked out the link at all it makes clear that it is the philosophy behind Hitlers racism and attempt to create a super-race. It is also the idea behind the creation of HIV in order to eliminate the 'useless eaters' of Africa, and population control in general, which is why I thought it germane to this thread.

Eugenics hasn't gone anywhere. As you pointed out, it has found disfavor among the general populace, but it remains very popular among the elite.

As for your comment that a child born at 2 lbs. is 'not particularly noteworthy', I wonder if you would say that to the face of an adult who was thus premauturely born and survived? This to me is an excellent example of the mindset of those who would play god with the lives of others, and is the main reason I will never entrust my health to self-important bureaucrats.

I agree with you that our heath care system is completely broken, and I in no way believe that society should be responsible for the incredibly expensive care of a newborn, or a elderly person or the victim of extreme trauma. I believe that our health care problems are systematic and stem from the fact that health care providers no longer compete for the business of consumers. Most peoples health care is provided by the company they work for, or the government, and so their costs are largely fixed. Make the individual pay out of their pocket for every bit of it and you'll see some changes.

As for me, I will continue to be responsible for my own health. Who else is as motivated to do so as I?

[edit on 9-12-2006 by resistor] - the inevitable misspelling

[edit on 9-12-2006 by resistor]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

"On current projections humanity, will be using two planets' worth of natural resources by 2050 -- if those resources have not run out by then," the latest report said.

"People are turning resources into waste faster than nature can turn waste back into resources."

what your pointing out is more a resource management issue....
an evergrowing population is just one of many factors that 'strain' resource management & equitable distribution of the necessary life sustaining resources.

getting the masses to either volunteer or accept a more austere lifestyle
reinvent socialism/communism
allow the subculture of suicide bombers to attract new converts

theres also elective choices available to people,
such as the Hemlock Society
such as the Voluntary Human Extinction MovemenT
www.vhemt.org...

when a ?problem? becomes elevated to the What should WE do about...? stage....
i immediately question ?who is the WE? and just what power will those WE exercise over the rest of Us???


i see it more like technology has not 'caught up' with the increasing multitude. to resolve the resulting 'problems', yet
i also see it as presenting options/choices to the masses, and letting them make informed decisions~ and then live with the consequences.
The historical paradigm has been for a small group to decide the fates of
those larger subservient groups...& so it keeps going

posted by resistor

As for your comment that a child born at 2 lbs. is 'not particularly noteworthy' I wonder if you would say that to the face of an adult who was thus prematurely born and survived? This to me is an excellent example of the mind set of those who would play god with the lives of others, and is the main reason I will never entrust my health to self-important bureaucrats. [Edited by Don W]

Of course not. But OTOH, our improving technology coupled with a life-at- any-cost philosophy is putting us into a corner. Not every life is created equal. Even the Holy Writ says “it is appointed unto man once to die.” I think it is the Anglican Book of Common Prayer that says, “from ashes to ashes, from dust to dust.” We have technology that tends to prolong life if it does not defeat death. We now employ the euphemism “quality of life” to confront and decide who and when one dies. No, I have no qualms of letting ill-formed infants die at birth. That's the best thing to do. I know if I was a parent I would not want a child that was severely handicapped, like CF or Spinal Bifida. Or Downs syndrome. Hey, I'm not into nursing. To me it is imposing a life sentence on the parents who do not deserve it. Mistakes of nature should not be visited on those not responsible. What kind of justice is that?

I agree our heath care system is completely broken . . I believe that our health care problems are systematic and stem from the fact that health care providers no longer compete for the business of consumers . . As for me, I will continue to be responsible for my own health. Who else is as motivated to do so as I?

Motivated? I’m not sure motivation is the whole answer. Responsible for your own health care? Unlikely. If you are admitted to a hospital through the ER, your first day’s billing will likely run $3,000 to $10,000. If you require complicated surgery, physical therapy and job rehabilitation, your billing can easily run to a half million dollars. So you are responsible? Or do you want to know where the Bankruptcy Court meets?

I am unaware of competition in the health care system. I go to the skin doctor. He says I have a suspicious growth that he recommends be removed and biopsy-ed. Do I ask him how much will you charge? Do I ask what pathologist he intends to use? Do I call a path lab im Mexico or India to see if they can beat the price? Do I say, “wait up doctor,” while I call some other dermatologists?

He prescribes some medication. I can take it to the CVS in my neighborhood and get a quote. Then I go to a Walgreens, and a quote. Then to a Wal-Mart and a quote. Maybe I call LD to Canada. When do I have time to get my medicine?

My eye doctor says the reason I can’t see well is a cataract. I ask him how much he charges. He tells me and says he needs an anesthetist and an OR nurse. I call around and get prices. I call the out patient facilities and get prices. Then I tell my ophthalmologist to use Anaesthetist B and OR nurse D and to meet me at Facility G. Yeah. Every day.

Competition? Yes, there is some. But not at the level involving patients and providers. Medicare tells hospitals they will pay $X for this procedure. They can do it for that, or not. Insurance company BCBS says they will pay $Y for that service, the provider must decide if he wants to do it at that price.

Do you know I pay $94 a month for Medicare Part B, $38 a month for the new Part D, and $158 a month for Plan F Medicare Supplement insurance from a private carrier? I do not have dental care or optical care. But I could, if I wanted to or could afford to have it. I paid the same 1.45% Medicare tax you pay, on wages matched by the employer all during our working life, in exchange for which retirees have a "paid up" Medicare Part A policy. With a $950 annual deducible, and with a coinsurance of 80% of the daily rate. That’s why I spend $158 a month, to cover the deductibles, coinsurance and co-pays.

Can health care in America cost more? You betcha! I've seen our health care cost rise from 11% of GDP in the 1970s to 18% today. Will it stop at 20%. Not if the Health Care Industry remains in control. Germany, the #2 most costly country, runs about 60% of the US in percentage of GDP. Every other country in the world is less expensive. Just imagine what having the world’s highest health care cost does to our competitiveness abroad when bidding on furnishing high value items like nuclear power plants? Or here at home where we are licensing 50 to 80 nuclear power plants for construction. Don’t be surprised to see Korean or Taiwanese contractors here, using Mexican laborers carrying Guest Worker cards. Blame it on health Care prices. And note our health statistics do not put the US as #1 in any category. Except cost. You figure.

Adage: You snooze, you lose.

The bad - and rich - guys never sleep.


[edit on 1/18/2007 by donwhite]