For All You Bush Haters...

I know how many of you feel about Bush and his administration, but have you ever sat back and looked at how things are going? Here's a brief synopsis of how I see things:

1. Iraq War - yes, this may be a huge mistake, then again it may not. I agree it looks fishy (falsified intelligence???). It may end-up being one of the best decisions in history. If we can install some kind of democracy there, it may serve as a stabilizing force that could help a region where wars have raged for 1,000's of years. That being said, we won't know for possibly decades.

2. Terror Attacks - for those of you who think our president or government is responsible for murdering 3,000 U.S. citizens, I say bull. I believe in the concept of our country and government and I simply do not believe it. Please don't try to counter with your "evidence," as there is plenty of other evidence to prove you wrong. The fact of the matter is we have not been attacked since 9-11-01. For those of you who think the October surprise will be a CIA-sponsored nuke attack, think about the implications. If the current administration has protected us thus far, wouldn't they be stupid to stage another attack. Wouldn't that have the opposite effect? It would certainly make me vote for someone who I thought could actually protect us.

3. The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work. The deficit has been cut in half; even with the wars, 9-11 attack, and unprecedented natural disasters. The stock market looks great right now, unemployment is low, and most Americans have more cash to spend due to the tax cuts. I know I do. I realize Bush is not a true conservative, but I think the spending has been valid and worked.

Now I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, but I truly believe our bias media unfairly paints a bad picture of him. For those of you who think I'm crazy, we'll most likely see the difference/outcome after the 2008 election.

3. The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work. The deficit has been cut in half; even with the wars, 9-11 attack, and unprecedented natural disasters. The stock market looks great right now, unemployment is low, and most Americans have more cash to spend due to the tax cuts.

Please stop saying bullcrap. The economy is doing great? The deficit has been cut in half The stock market looks great right now most americans have more cash due to tax cuts

The americans don't have more cash, they have less cash but they borrow more. And the interest rates are growing growing growing. When the economic crash arrives, in less than 6 months, a lot of people will own 4 times what they earn in their whole year to banks, and they will lose their employment. You won't say this about the economy in the coming months when you'll face the evidence of how it's a scam.

And the neo-cons did 9/11.

And the Iraq war is a complete failure. Thousands of deads, immense cost to the US population, immense profits for Halliburton and the militaro industrial complex. And you're blind if you think it's a democracy, it's worse than before. They have more torture, more deaths, less rights and a foreign army who occupy their country.

AND NO MORE CONSTITUTION. Only that reason would be enough to sentence his whole administration to death penalty because they are traitors.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Vitchilo]

No more constitution?!?! I keep hearing this lame claim, but you know what? I have lost no civil liberties! If the FBI wants to listen to my phone calls they can knock themselves out. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE! Maybe you do....

I beg to dissagree with you!!!

The middle east is a mess, all courtesy of Bush & Co. The Generals there are complaining, the Republicans are not happy, its a fiasco.

Most of us don't have anything to hide, but the very idea that the government is freely eavesdropping on any american citizen they want to is a bit f--d up. The men who founded our country and constitution would be appalled. The only cases I've seen where the patriot act was used in investigation resulting in a conviction were drug cases or other minor/non-terrorist criminals. How many terrorists has it caught? How many tons of drugs, and how many thousands of immigrants enter this country each year? How can they justify spending so much time and money on domestic surveillance when we can't even secure our borders? Surely this is a much bigger issue for keeping us safe from all the terrorists...

I'm not a Bush "hater", I just don't understand the reasoning behind their administration. Either give us the straight truth and reasons behind what you're doing, or keep it all behind locked doors, and of course people will think the worst. It's not the fault of the people for wondering what the hell is really going on.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Shoktek]

U2

1 Iraq is a mistake, thats the understatement of century.

2. You dont believe a goverment will or could be capable of killing its own people and their's no evidence, Hmm now let me think, Polpot, Saddam Insane, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Idi Amin, Bush, Blair and a thousand and one others to add to the list and thats just the last century.

3. I'm not an expert on economics but a deficeit of 8 trillion dollars dossent sound to me like things are goining well for the American economy.

Bush, probaly the greatest bufoon in the whole of christendom, please don take that personally as Blair is not far behind him.

Undecided,

I admire your fervour if not your reasoning.

Originally posted by undecided2
I know how many of you feel about Bush and his administration, but have you ever sat back and looked at how things are going? Here's a brief synopsis of how I see things:

1. Iraq War - yes, this may be a huge mistake, then again it may not. I agree it looks fishy (falsified intelligence???). It may end-up being one of the best decisions in history. If we can install some kind of democracy there, it may serve as a stabilizing force that could help a region where wars have raged for 1,000's of years. That being said, we won't know for possibly decades.

2. Terror Attacks - for those of you who think our president or government is responsible for murdering 3,000 U.S. citizens, I say bull. I believe in the concept of our country and government and I simply do not believe it. Please don't try to counter with your "evidence," as there is plenty of other evidence to prove you wrong. The fact of the matter is we have not been attacked since 9-11-01. For those of you who think the October surprise will be a CIA-sponsored nuke attack, think about the implications. If the current administration has protected us thus far, wouldn't they be stupid to stage another attack. Wouldn't that have the opposite effect? It would certainly make me vote for someone who I thought could actually protect us.

3. The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work. The deficit has been cut in half; even with the wars, 9-11 attack, and unprecedented natural disasters. The stock market looks great right now, unemployment is low, and most Americans have more cash to spend due to the tax cuts. I know I do. I realize Bush is not a true conservative, but I think the spending has been valid and worked.

Now I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, but I truly believe our bias media unfairly paints a bad picture of him. For those of you who think I'm crazy, we'll most likely see the difference/outcome after the 2008 election.

1) You seem to use a lot of "ifs" and "mays". Any stabilisation in the region will be despite the actions of the US not because of.
2) I agree with you that it is unlikely that Bush caused 911 but I think he did not do all he could to stop it. Furthermore, he has used it as an excuse for everything he has wanted to do from erosion of civil liberties to illegal wars, from war crimes to environmental destruction.
3) If I remember correctly Bush created the deficit from the surplus he inherited from Clinton. So to say he has halved the deficit that he caused is not something to crow about.

Any other matters you wish to raise in defence of the indefensible?

Cheers

S396

It is a well-established fact at this point, that Bush at least had foreknowledge of 911 but did exactly nothing about it.

Oh right and not to mention that the 2004 election was stolen, even our own govt said so. Google "2004 stolen election") and the 2000 election was unConstitutionally resolved by having the Supreme Court SELECT Bush.
Right there just for those 2 crooked elections, Bush should have been hung, drawn and quartered, he is nothing but a liar and a traitor.

There has been no progress in Iraq, zero, nothing, nada. The country is a mess and is not going to accept democracy, American-style, when are we going to get that through our skulls? We have destroyed Iraq and it may well go back to being little tribal states, which is what it should have been all along until the West got involved back around WWI.

And oh dear. Where on earth did you get the idea that the deficit has been halved? It is still almost nine TRILLION dollars.
Did you ever stop to think about where in the hell those 9 trillion dollars went? Not to social programs, Bush is against those. Not to tax refunds for us little guys. Why exactly do you have more cash now than before Bush? ARe you so wealthy that tax cuts benefit you? I don't know anyone who can make the claim that they have more money now than before. In fact, alot of people have lost their jobs due to Bush, I was one of them.

And about the rights we've lost: I have posted so often listing the violations of the Constitution that I'm not going to go to all that trouble again. You will need to do your own research, like alot of the rest of us did. First you need to read the Constitution. Then read the Patriot Act I, Patriot Act II and the Military Commissions Act, oh yeah and the Geneva Convention. Don't forget to read the PNAC's blueprint for our foreign policy, which states that we will attack anyone, anywhere, any time for any reason we want, which by the way was written well before 911. You think that's sane?

I agree with you. I don't see where people say that the 'economy is failing' everyone I know still has their jobs, still get the same income or more. So I'm having trouble understanding where people come up with this issue in the first place.

And on the topic on Terrorism: The liberal media will attempt to undermine Terrorism in the world by saying it is not an issue and that we should be more concerned about other domestic issues. Well I'm afraid to say that terrorism can be a domestic issue, but far worse it can lead the world into chaos. My main reason for supporting a republican administration would be because they refuse to cater to terrorists. Now some here may bring up the 1980s and say well we supported Afghan's freedom fighters. And at the time it may have been the right move, but no one can determine the outcome of such actions. Terrorism doesn't stem from one man (Osama). It's a global epidemic that must be dealt with head-on in order to prevent further catastrophies and my salutes to this administration for adopting pre-emptive strategies. I believe Iraq does have the potential of success, however the liberals have invested a lot of energy to make Iraq seem like a failure from the beginning and this plays on the morale of American citizens.
All I know is that if we don't get a Leader of "Action" rather than "Talk" in the next election Iraq will be left as another Vietnam for all the liberals to bask in their accomplishment.

Originally posted by laiguana
And on the topic on Terrorism: The liberal media will attempt to undermine Terrorism in the world by saying it is not an issue and that we should be more concerned about other domestic issues. Well I'm afraid to say that terrorism can be a domestic issue, but far worse it can lead the world into chaos. My main reason for supporting a republican administration would be because they refuse to cater to terrorists. Now some here may bring up the 1980s and say well we supported Afghan's freedom fighters. And at the time it may have been the right move, but no one can determine the outcome of such actions. Terrorism doesn't stem from one man (Osama). It's a global epidemic that must be dealt with head-on in order to prevent further catastrophies and my salutes to this administration for adopting pre-emptive strategies. I believe Iraq does have the potential of success, however the liberals have invested a lot of energy to make Iraq seem like a failure from the beginning and this plays on the morale of American citizens.
All I know is that if we don't get a Leader of "Action" rather than "Talk" in the next election Iraq will be left as another Vietnam for all the liberals to bask in their accomplishment.

I agree that terrorism is a problem, as almost anyone would. But it has nothing to do with Iraq. We originally went in for the supposed "WMDs" and to rid them of Saddam. It was good we took care of Saddam because he was a bad guy, but I just don't see how we are doing anything for Iraq now, other than causing more conflict. The Iraq people didn't attack our country. The nation of Iraq didn't order an attack against our country. That was the war in afghanistan, remember? The ones fighting us in Iraq are people who are opposed to the occupation of their homeland. And if anything, our presence is doing nothing more than stirring up more anti-American attitudes in the middle east.

You believe Iraq has the "potential for success"? How so? Right now we've got our little puppet democracy in place, but as soon as we withdraw our troops, it will be overthrown by the people in Iraq. And the longer we leave our troops there, the more die. Sorry, but we should just pull everyone out and let the Iraq people handle Iraq...it's really not our job to be over there in the first place, but we all know that there is an ulterior motive. The "liberals have invested a lot of energy to make Iraq seem like a failure"? Where are you getting this stuff? No, Iraq has seemed like a failure because of the fact that Americans were deceived in order to get support for the war, and soldiers have died because of this deception. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, it's the way it played out. The entire thing is a failure, as it started, and as it will end. Liberals and conservatives alike recognize this. Even my incredibly staunch conservative friends now admit that it's a disaster. I don't know anyone who actually thinks Iraq is going just fine. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has to do with having a brain that works, and looking at the facts we have. And your implication that liberals are "basking in their accomplishment" of the vietnam war just shows pure ignorance and hate, as you are obviously just a partisan drone who cares to not think for himself, and would rather just wave the flag and cheer on any republican in office. No, I'm not a liberal, and I didn't like John Kerry, but at least that guy seemed somewhat competent...even all of the generals are saying how the war in Iraq is crashing, but Bush et al insist on telling us everything is fine. You obviously believe everything is fine, so keep on believing that. And I'd be glad to hear your idea for eradicating terrorism from the world, because it seems like you know exactly what to do. Attack, invade, bomb, kill.......!!!!

Edit: Just wanted to state once again, that your idea about people thinking vietnam was some accomplishment for their cause, completely sickens me. A pointless war, where 58,000 americans died a pointless death, and the only thing about it that matters to you is that you see it as some political battle between who was "right" or "wrong", now in hindsight. Yea, it seems that you don't care about the cause or the people at all, but just more about being on the "right" side. Too bad you aren't, in any way you choose to look at it.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by Shoktek]

I have to be the nth person to disagree with you. Seeing as your name is "undecided", you are either a victim or a promoting act of self-degradation and the unability to think and know truth instinctively.

Originally posted by undecided2
I know how many of you feel about Bush and his administration, but have you ever sat back and looked at how things are going? Here's a brief synopsis of how I see things:

1. Iraq War - yes, this may be a huge mistake, then again it may not. I agree it looks fishy (falsified intelligence???). It may end-up being one of the best decisions in history. If we can install some kind of democracy there, it may serve as a stabilizing force that could help a region where wars have raged for 1,000's of years. That being said, we won't know for possibly decades.

For longer than 10000 years negative forces have been fighting for this planet. Why root for today's front?

2. Terror Attacks - for those of you who think our president or government is responsible for murdering 3,000 U.S. citizens, I say bull. I believe in the concept of our country and government and I simply do not believe it. Please don't try to counter with your "evidence," as there is plenty of other evidence to prove you wrong. The fact of the matter is we have not been attacked since 9-11-01. For those of you who think the October surprise will be a CIA-sponsored nuke attack, think about the implications. If the current administration has protected us thus far, wouldn't they be stupid to stage another attack. Wouldn't that have the opposite effect? It would certainly make me vote for someone who I thought could actually protect us.

Keep thinking. They are not protecting you.

3. The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work. The deficit has been cut in half; even with the wars, 9-11 attack, and unprecedented natural disasters. The stock market looks great right now, unemployment is low, and most Americans have more cash to spend due to the tax cuts. I know I do. I realize Bush is not a true conservative, but I think the spending has been valid and worked.

The stock market is a tool to control you. Tax cuts are an illusion.

Now I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, but I truly believe our bias media unfairly paints a bad picture of him. For those of you who think I'm crazy, we'll most likely see the difference/outcome after the 2008 election.

Read up on the criminal Bush history. Please. IT will change your mind and it will rectify your brainwashed thought.

undecided2

For some reason your post reads like . . . a campaign ad for the Republican party.

But remember Bush is not for re-election.

Now for most of the post I can tell you this much, American people are not blind anymore they are awared of not only the lies but the whole corruption that has taken over our political system.

It makes no difference one party will finish what the other one has left unifished.

And the cycle will keep on and on.

So don't feel bad what is going to change is the name of the party in power the agenda will stay the same.:lo:

U2,

Don't let the "Talking Point Professionals" get to you. It is all propaganda by the resident Bush Haters for the most part.

Of course they are going to "Predict" doom and gloom in the upcoming economy, if they didn't they would have to admit they are wrong. Aint gonna happen!!!

Lets examine it closer...

Of course President Bush has been "Proven" to either know about 9/11 or actually flew the planes there himself. No big deal for a man that can call up a hurricane right?

Of course the war is going badly, I mean that is all the news plays up and HEY we were only attacked the one time right? NO WAY it could ever happen again, right?

I mean just because we are over there fighting them is no reason that they can't just come here and protest peacefully, they are honest people and would never kill more people than has ever been killed in any single attack on the US.. I mean again.. Darn it.. Right?

And the deficit, well that was used to provide the drugs for President Bush's MASSIVE drug habit, didn't you know that? That and the bombs he planted under the levies in NO.

And he is not only listening to the Terrorist calls that are being made overseas to here or vice versa, he is listening to your friends talk about work tomorrow.. He must be, I mean 10 people on here have said it's true, so it must be... Right?

And the economy, well everyone knows that is a farce... Just because EVERYONE you and I know is taking home more money and paying less in taxes.. just because the tax base is set so that economically challenged people pay NO taxes, well.. that just means they are secretly sending the money back to the President and not really able to spend in on themselves and their family..

The Stock Market???
Well according to what I hear on here, the fact that it broke 12K, set a record.. that only means it is getting ready to go into the worse depression since the 1930's... I mean come on!!! All the signs are there, you just have to listen to all the people on here that know vastly more than you and I do and they will tell you... Right?

Sheeesh man, what does it take for you to get it??

(edited for Extreme sarcasm)

Semper

The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work.

The economy is doing horrible!! Dont think its a coincidence that oils prices finally dropped, gold prices have fallen (oil and gold are the most heavily manipulated commodoties), interest rates from the Fed are on hold, and the stock market closed above 12,000. All just in time for the election?!?!

Its nothing more than last minute manipulations designed to make ignorant americans think that things are going great.

Americans are in more debt now than ever. Savings are at an all-time low.

When the DOW stock market last capped out ot 11,750 in January of 2000, gold was at $280 an ounce. That means that the DOW was worth about 42 ounces of gold. Now, with gold at $600 and ounce and the DOW at over 12,000, the DOW is worth only 20 ounces of gold. LESS THAN HALF!!!

And, 12,000 2006 dollars are worth much much much less than a January 2000 USD. When adjusted for inflation, 12,000 DOW is really quite pathetic!!!

In order for the DOW to actually regain its high of 42 ounces of gold, it would need to reach 25,200 in today's dollars!!!!!!!

Record budget deficits, widening trade gaps, job losses, inflation problems, tax increases on the middle class, rising property taxes, rising war costs, increased uncertainty, dropping consumer confidence, falling business and consumer spending, the list goes on and on. We are in a recession right now and most of us dont even know it!!!

The ONLY thing that has kept the economy propped us this long was when the Fed dropped interest rates to rock bottom rates after 911. Lots of cheap and easy credit flowed into the market.

The housing market was THE ONLY saving grace that we had. Lots of cheap credit meant that people could easily get mortgages. More mortgages meant more housing sales, more sales equal higher demand, higher demand decreases the supply. Therefore you have rising housing prices.

All these people out there that already owned houses decide to borrow money against the rising price of the home, or "extract equity". Now all these people borrowing against their homes take these loans and go out and buy cars or some other crap that they dont need. This pumps more inflated dollars into the economy helping to squeeze out one last HOORAH before the collapse of the United States Federal Reserve Note Dollar (US-FRN's)

The problem is that you can not really spend your house. You house is not a savings account. You cant decide you need to sell your living room to pay for an emergency situation. The only way to really get the equity out of your home is to sell it.

There is a huge difference between price and value. Your home PRICE may have drastically increased but the VALUE likely stayed the same. You still live in the sam neighborhood, with the same schools, the same pollution, the same traffic, the same crime, and etc. The only way to extract equity is to move to a smaller home, in a worse neighborhood, with crappy schools and more crimes and pollution.

You may think that rising price of homes means you make a profit, but when adjusted for inflation you did not. If you own a home for more than a decade, the inflation of the money saps the value out of your home. When you take the current price of your home and adjust it for inflation from when you bought it, today's price is likely lower than when you bought it. WHAT A SCAM!!!

Rising home prices means rising propety taxes which mean that people find it harder to make ends meet and many people can no longer afford to pay off their mortgage. Their homes are forclosed and then sold on the market. More homes being sold on the market means lower prices for everybody else.

Do you see why the Housing Market bubble is such a major concern to our economy?

We are in serious trouble!

[edit on 29-10-2006 by sp00n1]

For more information on the Federal Reserve scam and what it means for you, check out this other forum topic;

America: Freedom to Fascism Video about Federal Reserve and Unconstitutional Income Taxes

Thank you.

Originally posted by sp00n1

The Economy - bottom line, tax cuts work.

The economy is doing horrible!!

Its nothing more than last minute manipulations designed to make ignorant americans think that things are going great.

Thanks for the post.

Like I say Americans are not stupid they know what is going on and how well manipulation works.

Like I said is always some gullibles that still holds to the dream of what their parties used to stand for.

Economics, as your 12th grade teacher coarsely generalized, is the system whereby our limited resources are allocated to certain items among our unlimited desires. By this definition, our economy is not operating very economically. The average American is meeting fewer needs and wants, not more, no matter how well the wealthy are doing. Naturally the numbers are getting bigger in the stock market: that's because we average joes are making the same wages, spending all of it (plus a couple of percent thanks to credit), but major corporations aren't having to deliver as much to us for that money. But if those big numbers are contingent on the fact that not as much is delivered for them, they aren't really good now, are they?

Whats worse, our ability to provide for ourselves is proving untennably deficient and yet we do nothing about it. We have significant deficits in budget and trade. The fruits of our labor going out do not match the fruits of foreign labor coming in. Didn't you ever wonder how that works? Why would somebody give us something useful if we didn't give them an equal value of useful goods back? We are making up the difference with green paper. How long do you believe that will last? Afterall, the green paper is only good because they can give it back to us for valuables in the future. But if they can indefinately obtain our valuables with theirs then they don't need our green paper, do they? Then what happens? Try having a sustained deficit with your local supermarket and see how long your credit cards last; that'll give you an idea.

Even for someone who doesn't necessarily buy into secret societies and ruling bloodlines and Zionist one-world government conspiracies, it is plain to see that humans do and will always seek the greatest amount of wealth and power they can afford for themselves, and there are people who stand to increase their own wealth and power immensely by continuing to move American industries to other nations, thus taking a powerful governmental system with established players out of the economic loop and creating a system where they can ascend more easily.

They've taken the things Americans need to buy from America to China. Next they take the things that the Chinese manufacturers need out of America and into Brazil, India, or wherever else they please. Now all America has to trade is green paper. The owners of the means now trading between China and Brazil or wherever else are not restrained by the same need to sustain a quality of life for the worker or to yield to the entrenched powers of such a controlling government, and they've significantly improved their lot.

Meanwhile, America sits to cool for a generation or two until our quality of life and the condition of our government are more in line with the interests of those who control the corporations, and that means they can bring production back here and run the same play in reverse.

It's not as if we've never seen the centers of production change before. The leadup to German unification is interesting in this respect, as is the fall of Germany and then the rise of the USSR.

Whether organized at the grandest level or just pieced together by coincidences of smaller conspiracies and unilateral actions, in the last 150 years or so it hasn't been entirely strange for major economics players to come and go very quickly while global commerce just reorients itself and carries on.

Doing well? I'd slightly annoyed with the way we're doing at present and the outlook is such that I only persist in anything at all by telling myself that my projections are only good on paper. The way I see it, there's a 50/50 chance that in 30 years I'll be taking my leave of a broken economy to go subsist with a few friends in some reasonably habitable boondocks, preferably somewhat removed from likely nuclear targets and/or military installations, since I remember how the Germans handled the end of their ride down easy street and I think my own people are generally even less agreeable than them.

This may not be a huge mistake, it IS a huge mistake. Of course it was falsefied intelligence that was used for the basis of war. That is an act that constitute impeachment of both Bush & Cheney in itself. Here's the problem iwth installing a democracy in Iraq, most people over there DON'T want a democracy in the first place. All I can say is that Iraq, and quite frankly, all of the Middle East is a quagmire due to this administration's view on Mid-East policy.

Don't believe that governments aren't responsible for their own citizens death??? You are mistaken my friend, look at leaders from Stalin in the Soviet Union to Pol Pot in Cambodia. Along with others, including Hitler and Hussein, millions have been put to death by their own government. The current "administration" has done little if anything to protect us. They couldn't even form an evacuation plan for people in New Orleans for pete's sake.

I think I stand to correct you on your statement about the economy. Due to Bush's tax cuts for wealthy. the government is running out of money. The price for a gallon of gas is over two dollars a gallon, nearly three bucks, in some places around the country. billions of dollars in taxes have been sent overseas because Bush allows these big corporations to ship jobs overseas and leave the average American out on the street. The budget deficit itself is in the trillions of dollars because of this administration. Don't even say that it was Clintons' fault because under Clinton there was a budget surplus.

The republicans won't have a fat chance of being elected to the White House in 2008, and that is a guarantee. Unless Diebold steals another election for the Republican Party.

[edit on 10/30/2006 by gimmefootball400]

Originally posted by sp00n1
For more information on the Federal Reserve scam and what it means for you, check out this other forum topic;

America: Freedom to Fascism Video about Federal Reserve and Unconstitutional Income Taxes

Thank you.

I so want to see that movie.

Reality hurts,

That link i provided to that topic has a link to the FULL FILM!!

That film is legally available for PHREE on google video!!!

The film maker authorized a full version of the directors cut to go onto google!!

WATCH IT NOW AND PLEASE SHARE IT!!! TELL EVERYBODY YOU KNOW TO WATCH IT ON GOOGLE!!!