Mystical Marriage

Fact:
“On October 8, 2006, a 42 yr. old Catholic New York woman became a “consecrated virgin” by dedicating her virginity to Jesus. She joined 2000 Catholic lay women (not nuns) worldwide who have declared perpetual virginity in this rare Catholic ceremony.”
Opinion:
This is just the Catholic Church’s subtle shift to answer the undying question of “why can’t women be priests?”
The Vatican hopes this “sacrament?” will placate the supporters of Gender Equality in Holy Orders by offering women an option of a chaste life of devotion to Jesus.
But whereas, the priests get a home, car, paycheck, and a “prestigious?” place in society – these women get… to be asexual citizens with no monetary compensation or Vatican endorsement? Hmmm, lucky, lucky, girls.
Interesting that nuns take a vow of poverty and priests do not.

Interesting choice of date.

~~

Doesn't sound anything more than the Church offering a new 'Feature' on it's menu

just a matter of 'upgrading' the services available
just like your wireless phone provider does to attract attention

neither one expects to induce switchovers or new clients but
if-you-build-it-they-will-come

Church is a business

Please explain, Annie. Why is October 8 an interesting date? This is the first I've heard of this date being of any importance

Actually, priests are supposedly celibate as well. However,I am sure that is not always the case.

Nuns are not always celibate, either.

The "vow of poverty" depends on the order. A number of brotherhoods also take the same vow of poverty (Franciscans do, I believe.) So not all monks and not all nuns take those oaths.

Originally posted by flyingbanshee
This is just the Catholic Church’s subtle shift

WRONG. This isn't the 'Catholic Church's' anything. These people are doing this on their own. Through out the 2,000 years of Church history there have been people who have done this now and again. It's nothing new. It's no big deal. It's their own thing. It's NOT a 'Catholic Church' endorsed or sanctioned thing. The church didn't officially set it up. The church isn't officially approving or condemning it. Nothing.

The Vatican hopes this “sacrament?” will placate the supporters of ...

WRONG AGAIN. This isn't a sacrament.

There are 7 sacraments in the Catholic Church.
1 - Baptism
2 - Confession (some now call it reconciliation)
3 - Communion
4 - Confirmation (usually around age 14)
5 - Marriage
6 - Holy Orders (priesthood)
7 - Extreme Unction (last rites)

You might want to actually read up on what the Catholic church believes and teaches before you start slamming it.

Originally posted by Byrd
The "vow of poverty" depends on the order.

You are very much correct.

Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites .. etc. etc. Those who are 'religious' priests and brothers usually take the vow of poverty. Same with the nuns in those orders. Mother Teresa's Sisters of Charity are another order with a vow of poverty. The priests attached to her order do as well.


Parish priests do not take those vows. Many 'nuns' who are outside of a convent and who work 'in the world' - such as being principals at catholic schools - do not take vows of poverty either.

Originally posted by flyingbanshee
Interesting that nuns take a vow of poverty and priests do not.

So that would make you WRONG yet again.



[edit on 10/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

FlyersFan is correct (FF you must be Catholic ). Anyone can take a vow of celibacy. You don't need a sacrament or special ritual to go along with it. If anything else, it's a good way to build a strong will and self-discipline.

I'd like to add a rhetorical question to the mix... had the Church been formed in this day in age, would there be women priests? I'd wager there would be.

When the Church was formed it was still largely influenced by the culture of the time. And at that time, there was no such thing as equality among men and women in Jewish culture.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by flyingbanshee
This is just the Catholic Church’s subtle shift

WRONG. This isn't the 'Catholic Church's' anything. These people are doing this on their own. Through out the 2,000 years of Church history there have been people who have done this now and again. It's nothing new. It's no big deal. It's their own thing. It's NOT a 'Catholic Church' endorsed or sanctioned thing. The church didn't officially set it up. The church isn't officially approving or condemning it. Nothing.

Take a deep breath

It's part of the Canon so it is about as official as it gets.

Can. 588 §1 In itself, the state of consecrated life is neither clerical nor lay.

Can. 599 The evangelical counsel of chastity embraced for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven, is a sign of the world to come, and a source of greater fruitfulness in an undivided heart. It involves the obligation of perfect continence observed in celibacy.

Can. 604 §1 The order of virgins is also to be added to these forms of consecrated life. Through their pledge to follow Christ more closely, virgins are consecrated to God, mystically espoused to Christ and dedicated to the service of the Church, when the diocesan Bishop consecrates them according to the approved liturgical rite.

§2 Virgins can be associated together to fulfil their pledge more faithfully, and to assist each other to serve the Church in a way that befits their state.

Source: Canon Law:
Part III : Institutes Of Consecrated Life And Societies Of Apostolic Life
Section I: Institutes Of Consecrated Life
Title I: Norms Common To All Institutes Of Consecrated Life

Oh yea it's not new, The modern practice has been around almost 40 years now.

[edit on 10/9/2006 by Cug]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
WRONG. This isn't the 'Catholic Church's' anything. These people are doing this on their own.

This IS a Catholic Church "something" as you can read from the original:
msnbc.msn.com...
"...Saturday's rare Catholic ceremony, one her own pastor didn't know existed, turned the 42-year-old into a "consecrated virgin."

"The ceremony was a revival of one of the church's oldest rituals."

As for it not being a sacrament - it falls under the sacrament of MARRIAGE.
She stood at the altar in a white gown & veil, made a solemn pledge to remain a virgin for Jesus and placed a wedding band on her left ring finger as a symbol of her devotion to Him. (A sacrament is an oath or a solemn pledge.)

Catholic Nuns do take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience.
Catholic Priests only take vows of celibacy and obedience to their Bishop.
Catholic Priests do not take a vow of Poverty. They get paid a paycheck, they get new cars, they receive EXTRA payment for doing their JOB because parishoners PAY them to perform the sacraments of Weddings; Funerals & Baptisms. A Catholic priest can own real estate, a boat, a motorcycle, a diamond ring...

A Catholic nun is not even allowed to keep a 20 year old car if someone GIVES it to her for free. She has to hand it over to the the convent for everyone's use. They are not supposed to own anything.

So that's where all them virgins are coming from, that their blowing themselves up for

Sounds like a carry over of the roman Vestal Virgins.

Wonder what happens if she breaks the oath? Do they bury her alive like the romans did?

No they throw her into a volcano

Originally posted by flyingbanshee
As for it not being a sacrament - it falls under the sacrament of MARRIAGE.
She stood at the altar in a white gown & veil, made a solemn pledge to remain a virgin for Jesus and placed a wedding band on her left ring finger as a symbol of her devotion to Him.

Marriage is the sacrament of marriage. Cloistered nuns throughout the centuries have worn wedding rings on their ring finger. Some wear it on the left hand, some on the right (european style). Some cloistered nuns first wear a wedding dress when entering the convent. Some lay on the floor and wear death shrouds upon final vows (dead to the world). NONE of this is considered THE sacrament of marriage. The nun is considered married to Christ, but this is not the sacrament of marriage.

And when a nun takes vows it is NOT HOLY ORDERS either. That's strictly for the priesthood.

Catholic Priests only take vows of celibacy and obedience to their Bishop.
Catholic Priests do not take a vow of Poverty.

WRONG AGAIN. I have already shown you to be dead wrong on this. Utterly and completely wrong.

PARISH priests take vows of celibacy and obedience to the Bishop. RELIGIOUS order priests do indeed take the additional vow of poverty. I already gave you examples of some of the religious order priests who do this - Franciscans, Benedictines, Carmelites, Dominicans ... etc. etc.

Example - Religious order Franciscan priests have three knots that they tie on their belt (rope). Poverty, Chastity and Obedience. It's there for all to see. They don't own cars; they don't go on vacations; they don't have motorcycles or houses. NOTHING.

Get thee to EWTN.com and educate yourself.

[edit on 10/10/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Cug
It's part of the Canon so it is about as official as it gets.

Cug .. I was replying to this part of her comment -

Originally posted by flyingbanshee
This is just the Catholic Church’s subtle shift to answer the undying question of “why can’t women be priests?”

Let me try again ...

AS I SAID .. people have been doing this for hundreds of years. HUNDREDS. It's nothing new. It's just a 'thing'. There is no big push. There is nothing coming out of Rome saying - 'hey, all you women who want to be priests, go do this instead.' The people who have done this didn't do it because of anything the church has said or done. It's JUST A OLD THING.

It's a holy thing to do .. but it's just an old thing that may, or may not be, experiencing a small revival of interest for some. It is NOT a sacrament and it isn't Holy Orders.

It may fall under Third Order Religious. It may not. But it definately is not a sacrament.

As far as the 'undying question' of why women can't be priests ... That question has been answered and it is a rule of the church that CAN NOT change. Ever. Some things are rules and some are disciplines. Women can not be priests because there were no women at the last supper when Christ instituted the priesthood. It is the church teaching that if Christ wanted women to be priests, he would have had them at the table during the Last Supper. They weren't. This is a rule that can not change because Christ Himself instituted it.

Disciplines CAN change. Married priests for example. That is a discipline that is based upon many things, one of which is the scripture quote about those who wish to serve God should remain single and not marry so that their attentions will not be divided. Since this is a suggestion from the Apostles and not a direct teaching of Christ .. it can change depending on how the Church feels inspired by the Holy Spirit.

There will NEVER be women priests approved by Rome in the Catholic Church. If a woman wants to be a priestess she can go join the Episcopal church. It's all set up and ready to go with women priestess'.

Not all Catholic priests take a vow of poverty but all Catholic nuns do take a vow of poverty.
The clergy is married to their vocation; A Roman Catholic priest’s bride is the Church / A Roman Catholic nun’s groom is Jesus.

There have always been married Catholic priests:
www.catholic.org...

The Catholic Church does indeed change it’s mind about things (no matter how old the doctrine), most recently that maybe dead babies, who missed their Christening, could actually be allowed in Heaven instead of spending an eternity in Limbo.
www.cwnews.com...
“Theological panel to discuss fate of unbaptized babies.
Oct. 02 (CWNews.com) - The International Theological Commission gathered in Rome on October 2, for a week-long meeting that will center on the fate of children who die without being baptized.”