Help! Demons, Ghosts, or just plain Crazy?

Kurokage,

To answer your earlier questions, yes they have tried to make contact to some extent. The ghosts do talk and know that my friend is there. The ghosts call their name often, especially at night when they are trying to sleep. Also a good friend of theirs died several years ago and this person came and visited them after death. They were also at a funeral and saw and talked to the deceased person. They cried because they wished all the other people there could see the person too. The ghosts also make physical contact but that is less common. I don't know if my friend has ever told them to stop, but I assume they have. I will ask them next time I talk to them to confirm if they have or not.

In an effort to shed a bit more light on the whole story, my friend has also had health problems their whole life. When they were young they were in the children's hospital for over a week because of a problem with their kidneys (or liver, I forget which). Recently they have also discovered that they have a heart problem. Not sure if it is a hole or a leak, but it makes their heart beat much faster than a normal person. They have dizzy spells, etc. They're supposed to go in for heart surgery in a few months.

Think like this: How can a person who doesn't believe in God be saved? Definately not by giving him a good life, he will then never turn to God. The only way that person can be saved is by punishing him

I think the opposite makes more sense. If a person is not turning to God, why would Satan show himself and scare the person into joining a religion? If a person is an atheist or whatever, evil forces will purposefully leave them alone so that they decieve themselves into thinking that such things don't exist. And then when they die, bam. Again, I don't think God is capable of doing such negative things. God wouldn't pose as evil to "scare someone to him".

But anyways, I'm not sure if organized religion is the right answer here or not. At least not yet... we'll see how things go.

First I want to find out if these spirits are real or not. But I'm not sure how to do it without taking my friend to go see a psychiatrist or something. If I did that, they would never talk to me again. I'll try linking them to a personality disorder test subtly, but I don't know how else I can prove (at least to myself) that they are 100% not crazy. The only other way is to prove to myself that the spirits are real, which could be tough since I can't see them.

[edit on 5-10-2006 by Yarcofin]

Originally posted by Yarcofin
I don't think God is capable of doing such negative things. God wouldn't pose as evil to "scare someone to him".

If I say, 'I'm going to bed, then I'll feel better.
A little nap will lift my spirits,'
You come and so scare me with nightmares
and frighten me with ghosts
That I'd rather strangle in the bedclothes
than face this kind of life any longer.
Job 7:13-15

Originally posted by Yarcofin
But anyways, I'm not sure if organized religion is the right answer here or not. At least not yet... we'll see how things go.

I hope there's not the misconception that the "cure" is to "go join a club". An organized group of people is not what it being proposed, rather a personal relationship (one on one) with God. If thereafter one feels compelled to join a fellowship such as a church than by all means. But, if you're looking to mankind for all the answers in this case, surely disappointment will follow.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
First I want to find out if these spirits are real or not.

They're real enough to your friend, so if you're looking to help I would take the assumption that they are when trying to help. Otherwise, I don't think your friend would consider you to be a serious source of help. I believe you do truly want to help and that speaks volumes and only want to encourage strength towards that effort.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
But I'm not sure how to do it without taking my friend to go see a psychiatrist or something. If I did that, they would never talk to me again. I'll try linking them to a personality disorder test subtly,

Please don't do this.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
but I don't know how else I can prove (at least to myself) that they are 100% not crazy.

Might I offer an alternative suggestion? Instead of throwing tests and cures at them, ask "What things have you done to have this checked out?" Suggest a process of elimination such as this, "Okay, I think one thing we can do to prove these things are really real is to show people there's nothing medically wrong to cause these things. For example, have you had an EEG already? Yes? How'd it come out? All clear? Good, so we can rule out abnormal brain activity if anyone doubts". Take his/her side, be an advocate, that's what friends to best. Put "crazy" as last on the list, eliminating all other possibilites first.

The only other way is to prove to myself that the spirits are real, which could be tough since I can't see them.

Originally posted by probedbygrays

If I say, 'I'm going to bed, then I'll feel better.
A little nap will lift my spirits,'
You come and so scare me with nightmares
and frighten me with ghosts
That I'd rather strangle in the bedclothes
than face this kind of life any longer.
Job 7:13-15

This is worth repeating I think. I'm sure you didn't realize this probedbygrays, but this describes how I felt a number of years ago. Had I been fortunate to have the advice given here by Mirror2U, you, and those parallel in thought, it would have saved me a lot of pain and distress.

[edit on 6-10-2006 by saint4God]

Your friend says that he has also seen dead family and friends, could these be spirit guides or guardian angels, if so they need to ask these for help and protection (but first test the spirit to make sure they are who they say they are). When asking for spirit to stop they need to acknowledge the spirt but then be firm but polite and say that it is upsetting them. And last but not least, try some meditation with your friend and ask your friend to inclose themselves in a golden shining armour from head to toe, and when they are alone and feel that they can't take any more, try this to see if it helps.

Well saint4God said all so well i think i can learn from saint and so probedbygreys quote should tell you where to get the help from, i do understand that you don't agree with organized religion but tell your friend to make a personal relationship with God and God SHALL direct the way.

God will punish those He love but i practice Spiritual Warfare and No never have i come across a story like this that is totally Ghost Whisperer-ish, if it was me before knowing God i would be crapping myself if i was one to view things like this.

Do not "grab on" to these spirits as someone mentioned,no,first you do not need to "grab on" He has given us authority over all evil that is what power we have so your friend can tell them to leave ofcourse under God's authority without touching them,but he needs to have faith and know he is saying that cause it is a God given authority.Your friend will need to know things before taking spirits on as demons are pure deceivers and so can take on any form or image,need to know who you are dealing with.

I respect anyway you should choose how to deal with this and i am not forcing my belief/religion onto you or anyone as i know God gave us freewill

Now seeing you or your friend/s do not think organized religion is the way i cannot tell you to see a Christian/Pastor/Priest as you first need to have trust in them and you/they won't have that thinking all Christians reacts or force their religion on you so taking this on by yourself ... Put on the Armour Of God (Eph 6) that is first and asking for forgiveness and very important forgiving anyone he/she could be upset with or any other reason forgiving is very important,and forgiving him/herself.The person will know when they get an overwhelming feeling,it can happen all of a sudden depending how strong they are but it will happen as they grow and if that happens it'll be much more clearer and you/they will know what to do ,if you need anymore help pls u2u me.

As I read more from Probedbygrays, I realise that he or she's a much deeper thinker and has experience that others would consider rare. Ofcourse, I can also be wrong, but let's say I'm right.

Straying from the topic.
Probed, I know you have alot of insight into these things & it may be difficult to explain even a small fraction of it. But I have a few questions.

Now, I believe that no evil entitites being present is quite a possibility, but does this mean that there is no evil through-out? God threw Satan out of heaven. Is Satan evil, or is there an evil force just as there is good?

Now, this is something I strongly believe. I do not think God(Or the King as I prefer to say) behaves in the manner that he is portrayed to be. After all, the bible itself is edited to a large extent. But I do believe that we all have guardians/protectors looking after us. However, is it possible that the victim's Protector isn't based upon christianity, but of another religion? Or is not directly associated with religion?

After all, the Hidus worship other Gods/Goddess and some are quite content & are considered blessed.

I know that there are different religions & throughout the years different religions were subjected to change. Things being subtracted & added. Therefore, there is no such things a a totally "pure" religion.
Or does it not matter? Is it a case where goodness brings goodness? Interms of, it doesn't matter whom we worship, but that we be good souls & do what's right when we can? Does the King & his angels help all those that seek help, whether or not they may pray to another "god"? Or is it infact that there are other "Kings" and other Guardians that work with other religions? Does this have anything to do with our ancestors?

All of these questions have troubled me for a while. I've always been what to say "what if", so I do not rule out anything really. But that undecided part of me makes it so easy for me to not settle upon one final answer. There's always a question & idea with me.

sdrawkcab
No as far as I have experienced there is no force dark or light which is outside of God's will. When you show unconditional love and fearlessness all evil loses its power instantly. All the demons from Hell attacked me and I showed absolute love and fearlessness and one by one the demons transformed into creatures of light. They simply manifest as evil beings to manipulate humans. Stand firm in faith that everything is of God and all bad things are God's way of testing you, and the greatest lesson is love.

Christ taught unconditional love and fearlessness and so he is a good example of how to live. I think all religions have truth in them however. They contain stories of God's wonders and that opens peoples minds to greater possibilities, and it's an open mind that is the important thing because it leaves a window open for God to reach people. God is not something that can be described in a book so the different books themselves are not to blame for being a little inaccurate, but so long as they help people to open their minds to God or higher forces then each religion serves an important purpose for its followers.

Good and evil both come from God and he told me yesterday as I was wondering what to say to you that: 'All people are on their way back to him and they are shown good and evil by him in order to become educated.'


I will say though that he is a lot like the God of The Old Testament and yet people these days tend to think that he is a sweet loving person who wouldn't hurt a fly. He can be like that but he can also be the terrifying God of Old. So terrifying that he makes all evil look lame by comparison. So don't fear evil at all because God is far more dangerous and loves you more than life itself.....!

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Christ taught unconditional love and fearlessness and so he is a good example of how to live.

Indeed...but did Christ say these things here?:

Originally posted by probedbygrays
I think all religions have truth in them however.

...each religion serves an important purpose for its followers.

Actually he taught:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." - John 10:1

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:16

and

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." - Matthew 10:33-36

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Good and evil both come from God and he told me yesterday as I was wondering what to say to you that: 'All people are on their way back to him and they are shown good and evil by him in order to become educated.'

So you're saying God is "the evil one"?

"Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." - Matthew 5:37

Or are you saying God contradicts Himself?

"

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Christ taught unconditional love and fearlessness and so he is a good example of how to live.

Indeed...but did Christ say these things here?:

Originally posted by probedbygrays
I think all religions have truth in them however.

...each religion serves an important purpose for its followers.

Actually he taught:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." - John 10:1

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:16

and

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." - Matthew 10:33-36

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Good and evil both come from God and he told me yesterday as I was wondering what to say to you that: 'All people are on their way back to him and they are shown good and evil by him in order to become educated.'

So you're saying God is "the evil one"?

"But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one." - 2 Thessalonians 3:3

Which doesn't make much sense as Christ says (in three instances and three differen ways) "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." - Mark 3:25

"My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." - John 17:15

"I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one." - 1 John 2:13


[edit on 11-10-2006 by saint4God]

Saint4God, I understand what probedbygrays is saying. Basically, there's something much deeper to what we are taught. It's not as simple as the Devil & God. There's alot more to it.

And I for one DO NOT believe everything the bible, or any bible for that matter says.
These scriptures were edited. Things put it, things taken out.

I'm not saying Probed is absolutely right, because you won't know until the higher beings reveal such things to you. All you have now is your opinion based upon what we read, what we're taughtt & simple common sense.

I have always felt that there is much more to life than what we know. The first one created the second, third & maybe the fourth. The others created others & such. They say that one should be afraid of God. But I see no reason to. I have not done anything that should cause me to fear such an entity. Alot of people call themselves christian just so they won't go to hell. Alot of people obey the Lord because of fear. Fear for being outcasts, fear for being punished, fear of not making it to heaven & such. I do not think you can fool God by doing what he says(Being good) because you fear him. It's not right. Why not do what's good because you feel better about doing it that way & not because you fear being pursecuted, judged, or going to hell, or whatever reason you have.

Damn, I just turned this into a stricly relgious topic. Going back to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by saint4God
So you're saying God is "the evil one"?

I'm saying there are more things in God than are in any one religion.

God in our Christian religion gives permission for satan to cause harm so as to test a human, but then in another book God and satan have a falling out and so people think that harm is not authorised by God anymore. So we have two systems of belief running concurrently in separate books within the same religion.


Masses of books have been edited and added, from and to, religions to suit the priests and societies of the times. Information has been carefully edited to paint a particular picture. God is more than that. God is the all. He is in control of everything. He didn't lose control to one of his creations. That's just one interpretation priests decided to keep while deleting others.

If Satan or a devil had any power at all then they would have told Jesus to get lost when he ordered them out of people. Jesus or The Son of God had absolute power over Satan.

He also said we will do greater things than he. So stand firm and know that Satan and all evil entities are subject to God at every moment and do not have any independence that is not permitted by God.

If you have not heard of the photon belt he ay just have a very evolved soul,so he is seeing the 4th dimension faster than the rest of us- its too outlandish for most people tocomprehend so read for youself-as 2012 approaches this with increase.

www.salemctr.com...

Originally posted by probedbygrays
I'm saying there are more things in God than are in any one religion.

God in our Christian religion gives permission for satan to cause harm so as to test a human, but then in another book God and satan have a falling out and so people think that harm is not authorised by God anymore. So we have two systems of belief running concurrently in separate books within the same religion.

I presume you mean books within the Bible? That happens concurrently in there.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Masses of books have been edited and added, from and to, religions to suit the priests and societies of the times.

*pause button [ll] * Let's reduce this to some bite-size portion so that we do not deviate too far off topic. We'll start with one collection of books called "The Bible" because I'd like to ask what has been added to the Bible for any reason? Secondly, what from the omitted books from Council of Nicea contradicts or omits key information not otherwise found in the Bible?

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Information has been carefully edited to paint a particular picture.

Please elaborate upon this accusation in terms of the Book mentioned above.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
God is more than that. God is the all. He is in control of everything. He didn't lose control to one of his creations. That's just one interpretation priests decided to keep while deleting others.

It's anti-Biblical to say He "lost control" of anything. I've never heard a believer, let alone one in authority who is, make such a statement.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
If Satan or a devil had any power at all then they would have told Jesus to get lost when he ordered them out of people. Jesus or The Son of God had absolute power over Satan.

He also said we will do greater things than he. So stand firm and know that Satan and all evil entities are subject to God at every moment and do not have any independence that is not permitted by God.

Well said and I appreciate the clarification. Thanks

[edit on 11-10-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

It's anti-Biblical to say He "lost control" of anything. I've never heard a believer, let alone one in authority who is, make such a statement.

Well now that is the whole point I am making. All things are controlled by God. When evil happens it does so under God's control. God oversees everything. So when evil beings appear you must know they are under God's control and not separate from it. If a storm ruins a town they say it is an act of God. They don't say it is an act of Satan.

As far as the editing of books and all I think it's just a matter of common sense to know that the books have been edited. Even today we have countless different versions of The Bible all saying slightly different, and sometimes completely different, things. I read a beautiful old Bible which had wonderful artwork in it and there were books in it that no other Bible seems to have. When I told Christians they couldn't believe it.

There's various gospels omitted from The Bible. It's up to the individual to decide if corruption has taken place.