killer elephants

This may not be in the correct forum but it's a bit strange and i felt it needed to be mentioned.

a british man in his early thirties was trampled to death by an elephant today.
travel.aol.co.uk...

on it's own it's not all that strange but when trying to find more information on the subject i found that almost exactly 7(lucky for some) years ago a 32 year old oil rig technician was trampled by an elephant.
news.bbc.co.uk...
The details of this attack are quite horrific as the elephant proceeded to butt, gore and kick him. Luckily Mr Street survived.

I'm sure your all aware of the famous elephant memory, and I wonder if elephants all over the world have some sort of hatred of british men in their early thirties. Perhaps there was once a notorious british elephant hunter who terrorised the species until he was trampled to death by some brave elephant. If that is true then it is equally likely that elephants have some sort of religious ceremony to perform at this time of year in order to guarantee their species survival for the next seven years.

any thoughts?

I beleive the earth and its animals have a mass consciousness

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
I wonder if elephants all over the world have some sort of hatred of british men in their early thirties.

ummm, maybe its just the fact we keep them in captivity and abuse them ?

just a thought

I don't know about elephants being vengeful, or that all elephants are out to get 30-something British guys. I do know that elephants are extremely dangerous creatures. They are as a matter of fact seen as one of the "Big Five" - which includes the lion, the rhino, the leopard and the buffalo as well. These animals are well known as human killers.

Buffalos, rhinos and leopards don't attack humans as first nature, but would rather run away than attack a human. Elephants will plainly ignore humans, whilst a lion will be the most aggressive. (This is if any of these encounter a human on foot.)

Rhinos and elephants with calves, on the other hand are extremely nervous, and will attack anything that might look like a threat to their young ones. Then there's the so-called "rogue elephants". These are lone male elephants that will storm anything in their "personal space", but not necessarily physically attack.

That's all generally speaking. But all that said, wild animals are unpredictable. Even so, it's easy to say when an animal will attack and what to do when attacked. Like an elephant flaps its ears, trumped and "mock charge" before actually "attacking". Most often you get a warning to back of, giving you enough chance to do so. When an elephant attack you need to run, and I mean like hell. Elephants are faster than humans - even for their size - thus in the process of running you need to drop pieces of clothing. The elephant will then spend time "trampling" the clothes you dropped, giving you the opportunity to get a head start.

So, this poor tourist didn't have a good "escourt" or guide. If you don't know what you're doing around dangerous animals, then you will get hurt. And when "tamers" get too comfortable with "tamed" wild animals, they will also get hurt. Like just last year a “groomer” was trampled by his elephant in South Africa near Hoedspruit. The groomer spent more than a year caring for the elephant. One day things just went wrong, and the groomer was trampled to death.

So, all that said. Elephants are extremely dangerous creatures. It's in their nature to try and kill something that remotely looks like a threat. And yes, they sometimes attack, just because they're in a bad mood. It happens. They're wild animals. Not vengeful avengers.

BTW there is little scientific fact to the story that elephants have such good memory.

There is however something mystical when it comes to elephants and their "dead". Elephants are known to spend curious amounts of time sniffing and "touching" the bones of deceased elephants. There is of course the "myth" about elephant graveyards (Older elephants instinctively leave their group when they reach a certain age, and direct themselves toward a special area, known as the elephants' graveyard. They then die there alone, far from the group.) I've seen some of these graveyards, and it is curious to say the least. I've also seen the strange behavior of mother elephants when trying to comfort dying calves. Will we ever know what goes on in their minds? I doubt it. Fact is, they are animals, and much of what they do is instinct.

hah, that was some great info there. cheers gem.

Elephants are interesting animals. Giants for sure. I loved that bit about shedding clothes so that the pursuing elephant will tramp the clothes first giving you a few meters gap. sounds like a right comedy chase.

On the topic of elephants, and as Gem pointed out:

...little scientific fact to the story that elephants have such good memory

I read somewhere (may have been on here, lol) that elephants are actually NOT afraid of mice. Something to do with being out of their line of sight. They are unable to look directly down at the ground.

A lot of the training of elephants involves beating them with sticks, chains and that type of thing I'm not saying they are all trained like that I really dont know but it happens.

It's really no wonder when they eventually snap and start killing people. They are intelligent animals though and you really do not want an elephant mad at you they will win easily.

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
This may not be in the correct forum but it's a bit strange and i felt it needed to be mentioned.

a british man in his early thirties was trampled to death by an elephant today.
travel.aol.co.uk...

on it's own it's not all that strange but when trying to find more information on the subject i found that almost exactly 7(lucky for some) years ago a 32 year old oil rig technician was trampled by an elephant.
news.bbc.co.uk...
The details of this attack are quite horrific as the elephant proceeded to butt, gore and kick him. Luckily Mr Street survived.

.. . .... . .
any thoughts?

well, i was way off. i thought this thread was going to be about the republican party.

First these were both African Elephants. African Elephants are more difficult to handle and train. The elephants you see in a circus are not usually the African variety. They are the elephants you see from India. Much more docile and tamable/trainable than the African variety.

Another thing I dont think most of you ever think about. Women on thier menstrual cycles. Animals can smell this a long way off and the smell of blood makes them testy. Predators can notice this too. If a predator knows this it can bring them in the area to threaten the young of the elephants. This can make the elephants testy and dangerous.
I can recall a instance in one of our national parks where a woman was attacked by a bear and it was determined that this woman was on her cycle. Do the smart thing guys ..take a woman out into wild country ..bear or lion country when she is on her period...really smart.

I dont know that this is exactly what happened but I also think that so many of us live such docile tame lives ...we go to places like this and think we are going to the shopping mall. We forget where we are and who we actually are in the food chain.
It is something for some of you to remember when you step out into the wild country.

Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Another thing I dont think most of you ever think about. Women on thier menstrual cycles. Animals can smell this a long way off and the smell of blood makes them testy. Predators can notice this too. If a predator knows this it can bring them in the area to threaten the young of the elephants. This can make the elephants testy and dangerous.
I can recall a instance in one of our national parks where a woman was attacked by a bear and it was determined that this woman was on her cycle. Do the smart thing guys ..take a woman out into wild country ..bear or lion country when she is on her period...really smart.

Orangetom

Actually this is not a scientific fact and no one can agree on this. Studies showed that bears show little "attraction" or reaction to menstrual blood:

However, the examination of factors surrounding hundreds of grizzly and black bear attacks produced neither evidence that supported a causal relation between human menstruation and attacks nor revealed any published records concerning black bear responses to menstrual blood. The U.S. Forest Service conducted a series of experiments (Rogers et al., 1991) which tested the responses of both male and female black bears to human menstrual odors. The first experiment involved the spin-cast introduction of 15 used tampons (in clusters of 5) to adult male black bears foraging in a garbage dump. Each presentation, therefore, gave the bears a choice between the garbage and tampons. If the bears ate (like they did the garbage), closely sniffed, or rolled on the tampons, then they were considered to have paid attention to the tampons. Of 22 presentations, the bears ignored the used tampons 20 times (twice casual sniffs were observed), effectively preferring the garbage in every instance. In a second experiment, seven bears feeding on piles of corn were offered groups of six used tampons. Six of the bears sniffed the tampons and then returned to their piles of corn. A yearling male tasted one of the tampons, quickly dropped it and returned to the corn.

Source

More Info

Another doctor, however suggests that chimpanzees do react to the smell of mestrual blood.

Your second question is yes, animals do smell menstrual blood or at least human scents that are hormonally mediated and it can cause aggression if the animal senses threat or is fearful. This is true for menstruating women who are around wild predators, as well as apes and even herbivores. I studied wild chimpanzees in Tanzania in my college years, and when women observers were menstruating, the male chimpanzees were far more aggressive.

Source

I wouldnt count on science and scientific fact for this one.

All I need to do is watch the behaviors of domestic carnivores to the smell of blood and fresh meat. Their behaviors change rapidly. What would happen to say..wild carnivores...like dingos... cheetas, lions etc etc.

We are talking about a agressive dominant, territorial, tribal animal here..an African Elephant. I am sure that blood and hormones would make them testy particularly out in the wild where they have others to protect. And it could happen in seconds.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

I wouldnt count on science and scientific fact for this one.

How about millions of years of human history, then?

The fact is that women do go out and hunt and do go out when they are on various parts of their menstrual cycle. Not all of them are in synch with each other.

If the "animals attack when they smell menstrual blood" held true, homo sapiens wouldn't be around. Females generally have their first cycle from ages 10 to 13 and it can continue up to 60 and later. In a village of 100 people (such as you'd find in the arctic), you'd have bears or wolves all over the camp constantly. In Africa, lions and hyenas and cheetahs and leopards and wild dogs and foxes would constantly attack the human enclosures instead of attacking the humans' domestic animals (cattle and chickens)

And this doesn't happen.

Male Elephants attack more whilst in 'must'.

A liquid is secreted from glands just above and behind the eyes. This liquid is secreted during a certain season of male elephant development, much like testosterone. Even the most gentle elephant will go insane during 'must', as it causes a migraine sensation in the brain due to pressure build-up behind the eyeballs.

It can literally drive an elephant mad, and a characteristic of this insanity can be seen when an elephant swings its trunk in a helicopter like fashion left and right, kind of like a ninja with nunchukkas.

One way an elephant soothes itself during must is by pushing its tusks into cool mud.

It can last quite a while, so it is wise to stay away from an elephant in 'must'.

I hear the secretions really stink too.

Originally posted by Unrealised
Male Elephants attack more whilst in 'must'.

Aah yes! I forgot about this one!

The correct term is "musth" (an Indian word?), although "must" is accepted as an English term.

Just a side note - Although elephants do drive their tusks into the ground or mud during musth, it's more out of frustration, because of severe toothache, than actual relief from the pain.

But that's just being technical.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
We are talking about a agressive dominant, territorial, tribal animal here..an African Elephant. I am sure that blood and hormones would make them testy particularly out in the wild where they have others to protect. And it could happen in seconds.

I have never, ever seen an elephant react differently to a female (woman) than it does to males (men). Although I don't go around asking about women about their menstrual cycles, I've never seen an elephant react in a strange way to specifically a woman's crotch area. The debate may continue on how certain animals react to menstrual blood, but I can say with certainty that elephants do not react to it.

EDIT:
Some statistics on the topic of elephant attacks:
Elephant Incidents inside the USA (in Captivity) since 1990 (12 human deaths)
Elephant Incidents outside the USA (in Captivity) since 1990 (55 human deaths)


[edit on 24-10-2006 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by orangetom1999

I wouldnt count on science and scientific fact for this one.

How about millions of years of human history, then?

The fact is that women do go out and hunt and do go out when they are on various parts of their menstrual cycle. Not all of them are in synch with each other.

If the "animals attack when they smell menstrual blood" held true, homo sapiens wouldn't be around. Females generally have their first cycle from ages 10 to 13 and it can continue up to 60 and later. In a village of 100 people (such as you'd find in the arctic), you'd have bears or wolves all over the camp constantly. In Africa, lions and hyenas and cheetahs and leopards and wild dogs and foxes would constantly attack the human enclosures instead of attacking the humans' domestic animals (cattle and chickens)

And this doesn't happen.

Not quite Byrd. I do understand to what you are alluding. Human social structure in this context of which you describe is herd mentality. Also when the women do go out in numbers to do their work it is also in herd mentality. Women in many cultures who were on their cycles were often cloistered..isolated within the tribe not outside. This is not a concept we are often wont to think about today..for what it is but look down on it as uncivilized..uncultured...etc. This was often done in these tribes for a reason...not all of which is obvious to us "civilized " peoples today.

Remember the context of the two stories of the people killed. They were not in a herd per se...they were in the territory of the elephant. Other than the young being vulnurable..elephants have few enemies.

YOu take these same women you describe in your post and put them outside the herd...on their cycles in that enviornment it wouldnt take long for the preditors to recognize a easy kill..and predators are opportunists...often prefering easy kills to those you have to work hard to get.

Elephants are not quite the dumb brute animals we often think and they are very protective of thier young and tribe...particularly the African Elephant. They are known for thier aggression verses the Indian variety.

IN the artic...you are bound to find the very wise use of dogs in these camps. Bears too are not dumb about this. Dogs not just in the artic but other lands too. THis was a very intresting topic to learn about ..in addition to the concept of social structure for protection of the tribe along also came the domestication of the wild feral dog...for protection and help of the social tribe.

These types of animals attack humans when they find them easy prey. Particularly when humans go out in to what these animals consider their domain.


Thanks,
Orangetom

look the elephants are going crazy.

news.aol.co.uk...

perhaps this has something to do with Dark Knights prediction of apocalypse. Elephants going mad...lights in sky...maybe a moon setting twice?...