Al Qaeda threat over pope speech

Just a few words of comfort to a few on here, I really don't think muslim extremists will be able to kill the pope. If they were any good at assasinations Bush, Blair, several leaders in the ME, etc. would be dead long ago. This is just a temper tantrum, a pathetic, immature little tantrum. Just like with children, if you ignore them they will forget what they were crying about and move on to something else. It's not the start of WWIII (again...), it's just a childish display by a bunch of humorless people who are indoctrinated from birth and have nothing else in life but their religion that they take WAY too seriously.

Originally posted by hogtie
The Pope's remarks were for religion in general, something that the Muslim protestors can't get their dense heads around. Not that the mullahs would distort the context at all.

And actually it is Christ-like. There is much argument to lend credence to the belief that Jesus was no pacifist.

Ok, now I know that you are way off base. How can any rational being possibly construe the message of Jesus as anything but peace and love? It is unfortunate that His ideals have been hijacked and used for peoples own end. People used the bible to justify the attrocities committed on the native peoples of our country when it was discovered - this is no different. It was said that people would follow and worship a "fake" church and that they would all be deceived. Perhaps it is all true after all and the fake church is Christianity today...........sad.

Originally posted by 27jd
It's not the start of WWIII (again...), it's just a childish display by a bunch of humorless people who are indoctrinated from birth and have nothing else in life but their religion that they take WAY too seriously.

I agree that the violent response to the popes words are childish, however so were the comments themselves.

How can you say that someone takes their religion too seriously? Are you a man of faith - I am just curious on your take on this.

Originally posted by LogansRun
I agree that the violent response to the popes words are childish, however so were the comments themselves.

Well, I never agreed with what the pope said, and if it were me I would not have made the comments. However, the reaction is way out of proportion, a more appropriate reaction would be to point out the many flaws in the catholic church, not to prove the quoted comments right.

How can you say that someone takes their religion too seriously? Are you a man of faith - I am just curious on your take on this.

I can easily say it. And yes, I have faith in a higher power, but none in religion. I know that mankind is not meant to know EVERYTHING, and that religion is an attempt to feel like we have a handle on it. I tend to put the higher forces, at least in my mind, on a higher plane than man...so I believe things that are human, such as the need to be worshipped, the desire for vengeance, etc. are FAR beneath such powers, so far that we can't begin to comprehend. That's my take.

Originally posted by LogansRun

Ok, now I know that you are way off base. How can any rational being possibly construe the message of Jesus as anything but peace and love?

Because I can look at the whole Bible objectively and question it, just like Koran.

John 2:15

"And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the Temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers money, and overthrew the tables. And said unto them that sold doves, 'Take these things hence; make not my father's house an house of merchandise.'"

Luke 22:36
"...he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Matt. 26:52
"Then said Jesus unto him, ' Put up again thy sword into his place; for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.' " (Notice he didn't say "throw away the sword".

Originally posted by 27jd

Well, I never agreed with what the pope said, and if it were me I would not have made the comments. However, the reaction is way out of proportion, a more appropriate reaction would be to point out the many flaws in the catholic church, not to prove the quoted comments right.

I agree with your thoughts on this, however there are many people who are trying to do just that, unfortunately only the few idiots who are reacting out of proportion are getting all of the attention. I will argue anyones stand when it blames the actions of a few on the whole.

Originally posted by 27jd
I can easily say it. And yes, I have faith in a higher power, but none in religion. I know that mankind is not meant to know EVERYTHING, and that religion is an attempt to feel like we have a handle on it. I tend to put the higher forces, at least in my mind, on a higher plane than man...so I believe things that are human, such as the need to be worshipped, the desire for vengeance, etc. are FAR beneath such powers, so far that we can't begin to comprehend. That's my take.

Thank you for clarifying that. I actually agree with what you have typed above. Unfortunately extremists on both ends of the arguement have yet to learn the difference between religion and faith; many of whom are right here in our own country. Again, I deplore the violent actions of the people as a result of the pope's comments, however I dont blame the entire muslim world for their actions.

We have people in our own country who used to lynch another man just because of the color of their skin - loosely based on religious interpretation. The Mormon church would not allow african americans to become ministers until the late 70's due to their biblical interpretation that people of color were direct descendents of Cain. Many of the peple that held these far outdated beliefs are still alive in this country today and still hold those beliefs. Do I blame the whole of christianity, or even fellow americans for their ignorance? No, only the people carrying out the actions themselves. People, as individuals, are responsible for their actions - not the people they are associated with.


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[edit on 19-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Below is a link to a great ebook and a few Paragraphs towards the end.
It pretty much sums it up that the Moslem extremists are doomed anyway let them continue to be childish there isn't anything we can do anyway but when Christ comes they'll have there just due.
www.ellisskolfield.com...

John 3:36 &16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting
life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but
the wrath of God abideth on him ... For God so loved the
world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Islam stands directly against those Bible truths. Understanding
the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast as the Middle Eastern nations leads
irrevocably to the conclusion that Islam and the fundamental
Moslems are the final enemies of Almighty God. The day=year
prophecies also show that we are in the last generation of the
Christian Era. God knew the future of Islam and the Holy Land,
right to the year, and God told us about it six hundred years
before Muhammad was born.
There is nothing like those prophecies in the Koran. The Holy
Land and Jerusalem being under Jewish control again is
something Allah could not foresee. It is a fulfillment of Bible
prophecy, not of Koranic prophecy. The comparison would be
comic were it not so tragic. Many will stand before the Great
White Throne in horror as their rejection of the truth is brought
to a light from which they cannot flee. .It is a fearful thing to fall
into the hands of the living God. (Heb 10:31).
There is one thought that should be repeated: Worldwide,
there are about 1.4 billion people in Islam. Present estimates are
that 10-15% of all Moslems are fundamental extremists. In other
words, right now there are about 140 to 190 million people
actively involved in the world’s most dangerous splinter group and
their numbers are rapidly increasing, particularly among the
younger generation.
Now here.s the point: Today there are an estimated three to
six million Moslems in the United States. If that 10-15% statistic
holds true for us, then from 300,000 to 750,000 of our American
Moslems could be terrorist supporting Islamic fundamentalists. So
are terrorists hiding in American mosques? The answer is obvious.
If we don.t root them out, our nation will never again be free of
the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Not since the war of 1812 have enemy soldiers been allowed
on United States soil. But liberal rhetoric and political correctness
being what they are, we.ll ignore God.s warning about those who
have rejected His Son. Instead, we.ll march blithely on, to an
Armageddon we.ll have brought upon ourselves.

Oh boy I bet I get slammed on this one. No hard feelings please.


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[edit on 19-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by LogansRun
People, as individuals, are responsible for their actions - not the people they are associated with.

True, however, those racist beliefs were largely conquered because enough of their fellow Americans stepped up and opposed them. That change wouldn't have occured if people in this country weren't disgusted by it and knew it was wrong and couldn't be justified. That's the problem I see now, regardless if FOX news wanted us to see, if there were large anti-extremist demonstrations in the muslim world, we would see it. They couldn't hide it in the information age. Even our resident muslims here on ATS, are either extreme, or even if they are moderate they pretty much say "i don't agree with the terrorists actions but you guys kinda have it coming". I have NEVER seen a flat out, no strings attached condemnation by any of them. NEVER. I have seen quite a few self proclaimed Christians speaking up FOR them and against the war though, without any asterisks. To me it just seems the majority of the muslim world is either exteme at worst, or apethetic at best. It's probably because they are taught by their governments (probably to divert the blame for their living conditions) in their schools from birth, even in countries that are our "allies", that we are the enemy. I don't remember being taught anybody was my enemy in school. Maybe that's the big difference....

I really wish we could just get along, but I have a feeling the majority are just not interested, I hope I'm wrong but that's the feeling I get.

This whole issue has been going on for decades, this is just the latest step in a dance between rival religions that has been going on since the idea of religion and belief came into the lives of the earliest humans.

I was going to write a nice piece about how this whole thing (Islam vs other religions and beliefs) has been triggered by those in the power structure of Islam who take the teachings of the Quran and make the Surahs say what they want them to mean, instead of their true meaning.

These people then use this hold that they have over people, and who put them in a position of trust, to try to bend the populace or the group to their will. This is not the will of God or Allah, but of evil men. I was going to say that I believe that it is only a small (in relation) group of evil men who do this, leading those who they can astray from thier own religion.

However I have just come across some articles that either prove my point more, or disprove it - so that it does seem that it is most Muslims that view things in this way.

www.news24.com...
Tripoli - The elder son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has called on Pope Benedict XVI to convert to Islam immediately, dismissing last week's apology from the pontiff for offending Muslims...

catholiclondoner.blogspot.com...
Unfortunately after Mass today at Westminster Cathedral it was shoved in my face. Holy Mass on a Sunday is the very source and summit of the Catholic week, so my family decided this Sunday to make the trip to Westminster Cathedral together. As we came out about 100 Islamists were chanting slogans such as "Pope Benedict go to Hell" "Pope Benedict you will pay, the Muja Hadeen are coming your way"...

jpost.com
Citing the words of the Prophet Muhammad, Muslim religious leaders in the Gaza Strip on Sunday warned Pope Benedict XVI that he must "accept" Islam if he wanted to live in peace...

Either there is a LOT of these small groups of evil men organising these things, or something else...

Saar

[edit on 19-9-2006 by saarlonga]




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[edit on 19-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Here's the other side to the story - an extract from the Holy Father's now virtually forgotten address to Muslim representatives at Cologne on 20 August 2005.

romanmiscellany.blogspot.com...

...The lessons of the past must help us to avoid repeating the same mistakes. We must seek paths of reconciliation and learn to live with respect for each other's identity...

Saar

ANKARA, Turkey (Reuters) -- Employees of the state body that organizes Muslim worship in Turkey asked the authorities on Tuesday to open legal proceedings against Pope Benedict XVI and to arrest him when he visits the country in November.

They said the pontiff had violated Turkish laws upholding freedom of belief and thought by "insulting" Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.
www.cnn.com...

I am rendered speechless....



[edit on 19-9-2006 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd
I am rendered speechless....
[edit on 19-9-2006 by 27jd]

I think that is their goal. I'm going to sputter with outrage. They ain't getting me to shut up. I hate Turkish prisions anyway.

Ok I'm not threating you with an AK-47 or to behead you I'm calling on all of Islam to convert to a Christian or face the wrath of GOD.
Thank you for your cooperation now we can have world peace.
Its the work of the devil to force someone to convert they are all posessed, and telling the Pope to go to hell and or convert is proof.

Does that mean that the other popes and christians who forced conversions were possesed by the devil?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Does that mean that the other popes and christians who forced conversions were possesed by the devil?

Yes. Or at least a devlish impulse.

Well its either your life right now or this religion, YES thats the devil in its purest form, and who is to say that the next pope or this pope isn't the next anti-christ
and his speach was meant to cause a holy war. Still public attacks against the Pope is an attack to gods church if he is or isn't. Hell its a wonder there isn't riots
against moslem clerics for telling the Pope to go to hell.

If you (the Pope) are supposed to be the head of a religion of several hundred million people and a childish street rabble forces you to "apologize" and then tells you it wasn't good enough, what are you? I mean really what does that say about you and your religion?

The childish street rabble and their handlers are somehow smart enough to know the answers to these questions ...

Originally posted by hogtie


Because I can look at the whole Bible objectively and question it, just like Koran.

John 2:15

"And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the Temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers money, and overthrew the tables. And said unto them that sold doves, 'Take these things hence; make not my father's house an house of merchandise.'"

:lol!!!!! you consider Jesus throwing out the greedy and morally corrupt money changers out of the temple an act of violence!!!!! oh please!!!!
this is pathetic.

Luke 22:36
"...he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

this is what we should with radical islam.....BTW, luke is saying there is a time for peace and a time to take up arms. Today is a time to take up arms against islam.

Matt. 26:52
"Then said Jesus unto him, ' Put up again thy sword into his place; for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.' " (Notice he didn't say "throw away the sword".

That is exactly what he said!!!!! "put up thy sword into his (its) place (the sheath). For all that take the sword (unsheath it ; use a sword) shall perish with the sword (die by someone elses sword)."

you present these, 2 of which have VERY deep peaceful meanings on many levels, as an example of violence? :shk: READ IT AGAIN! this time pray that the words open your mind and you understand them.

I think you misunderstood my intent. I was trying to show that Jesus was not a pacifist, when I was confronted by someone saying that Jesus' message was only peace and love. He was in my eyes a guy of action.

What is the popes security like?
Doing various treks through poland recently and the upcoming turkey visit..... is it the same security as the president gets?
only certain people are allowed within viewing distance, everyoens scanned, rah rah rah...

I remember the last pope was almost done, even attempted twice with the idea of a bomb under the road...

just how much precaution is taken?