The World Council Of Churches Issues a Statement

The World Council of Churches issued a statement today declaring that the latest war between Israel and Lebanon was pre-planned well in advance of Hizbollahs attack and was meant to drive a wedge between the multitude of Religions in the Democratic state that co-exists in Lebanon that fails to exist in Israel. I am glad that people are finally speaking out and speaking of the truth. It is especially important that some of these religious right wing followers who tend to overlook Israels wrongdoings because of their religious beliefs, see and hear it from religious leaders who do.




World Council Of Churches

Many people try to claim that I am inventing things when I say that Israel is one of the direct causes for the terrorsim and violence in the Middle East.

But as well as showing our solidarity, our main aim was to listen to the people we met, especially the leaders of the churches, to take back with us the voices of the people of Lebanon and Palestine/Israel, so that the churches we represent can speak out in their name. We carry back with us the responsibility of making these voices heard.

We heard the voices of all religious leaders who were calling for an immediate ceasefire – and we hope today that UN resolution 1701 has been immediately effective and will continue to be
We heard the voices of all our partners in Lebanon who couldn’t understand the violence of destruction: more than a thousand civilian victims, crimes of war against children and infants (noting particularly Qana and the Mar Jayun convoy), destruction of infrastructure – and as the Lebanese Prime Minister told us – "a Lebanon cut in pieces". They could not understand the violence of the military offensive, except that the intention was to destroy Lebanon. We heard also the voices of the same Christian leaders in Lebanon condemning without reservation the attacks of Hizbollah which cost the lives of eight Israeli soldiers and the capture of two others, and condemning any form of violence and the killing of civilians. But the same leaders supported the resistance of the Lebanese people underlying the unity of this country as a model of multicultural and muti-confessional understanding of democracy.
We heard their voices when they asked us to say to our churches, and through them to our governments, their conviction that the existence of such a multicultural and multi-confessional Lebanon is a guarantee for peace in the whole region.
Their voices have been totally united with the voices of all Christian leaders we heard in Jerusalem, saying how these dimensions are central in countries where all people turn to God and respect themselves in their different confessions. The whole Middle East would not gain from losing a strong presence of all Christian confessions.
In Beirut and Jerusalem, we heard the voices of all those reminding us that at the core of the Middle East issue is the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is a strong reservation toward the 1701 resolution, not because it tries to solve the crisis between Lebanon and Israel, but because it doesn’t point to the root cause of the crisis. So we have heard with special attention those who say that we have to call for the opening of negotiations to build peace in the whole region which would include:
International negotiation with no one left aside due to preemptive designation as terrorists
Recognition of the importance of secure Israeli and Palestinian states in internationally recognized borders
We have heard the voices of Christian leaders recalling that there cannot be peace without respect for the ‘other’, or without justice. They underlined the injustice of silence of the world media facing the capture of one third of Palestinian politicians, duly elected – or the starving of the population of Gaza, who each day require more and more humanitarian assistance. "Do not forget Gaza" we were told.

Source

A poorly planned operation thats for sure. Even tho Hezbo says they didnt expect Ishrael to respond the way they did, i bet Ishrael didnt expect Hezbo to respond the way they did either. Either way you look at it, it was a gross miscalculation by both sides. To be honest, i dont think this thing is over yet just because they arent firing at each other, but i think neither knows what to do next.

posted by ThePieMaN

The World Council of Churches declared the latest war between Israel and Lebanon was pre-planned and was meant to drive a wedge between the multitude of Religions in the Democratic state that existed in Lebanon but fails to exist in Israel.

I am glad people are finally speaking out and speaking of the truth. It is important that some of these religious right wingers who overlook Israel’s wrongdoings because of their religious beliefs, see and hear it from religious leaders who do not.
[Edited by Don W]

"We came back from Lebanon sharing the impression that this destruction was planned. And if the action by Hezbullah was the trigger, this was a planned operation all ready to go," Jean-Arnold de Clermont, president of the Conference of European Churches, told reporters in Geneva. "Lebanon's various communities with whom we met had all agreed that the destruction was both deliberate and planned," said the joint statement summarizing the news conference.
[Edited by Don W]

Did I not write elsewhere that God had botched His job: He designated the Israelites as the Chosen People; He sent the Messiah to the Christians; and He sent his last Prophet to the Muslims.

Is it any wonder how the People of the Book can’t get it straight?

No, they let the rockets rain down on their people.. it has been posted here before that people are coming out to say the gov asked them to leave some rocket sites inplace. If Israel was killing hundred while Hez killed no one they are the bad guy. If Hez shoots rockets then Israel is seen as a good guy. I agree it was pre-planned but I think this was phase one, and there is more yet to be seen.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I agree it was pre-planned but I think this was phase one, and there is more yet to be seen.

Im really surprised you agree with this.

If Israel had no nuclear weapons Iran would not be an issue. Israel has been the main instigator in all of this mess about Iran wanting to achieve Nuclear knowledge for military weapons. They have claimed the same thing for years and years..They were wrong and continue to be wrong. If tomorrow Israel up and decided that it wished to disarm its nuclear program and submit to the NPT and IAEA , I would bet Iran would be very complacent and agreeable to any Nuclear offering it was given.
This practice of "Nuclear Ambiguity" is bogus.

The difference is that Ishrael has never made it public policy to eliminate the Iranian state even though it has the means to. The world is now trying to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of regimes that will not be responsible and Iran is clearly one of those with its belicose retoric. Thats the difference. Ishrael has been a nuclear power for 30 years with no incident. I think intelligent powers look at Iran and doubt that the same could be said for them 30 years from now.

Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
The difference is that Ishrael has never made it public policy to eliminate the Iranian state even though it has the means to. The world is now trying to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of regimes that will not be responsible and Iran is clearly one of those with its belicose retoric. Thats the difference. Ishrael has been a nuclear power for 30 years with no incident. I think intelligent powers look at Iran and doubt that the same could be said for them 30 years from now.

Thanks for playing.

Does it matter? Everyone knows that Israel doesn't want any of its neighbours around it (Not that they wanted Israel with them). But getting back to the point, Iran is smarter than that and even if it does acquire nuclear capability, I don't really think they are going to use it on Israel. Its a double-edged sword isn't it? They will not do it, anyone with a little bit of common sense knows that already! We need to stop this whole attitude of pre-emptive operations!

Until and unless the root cause (The illegal occupation of Palestine) of any problem is not rectified, there is no way there is going to be peace. I don't like civilians getting killed, but Israel has brought it on itself and now its riding on blind support of the US.

I have to agree with you Pie Man. After WWI, Israel was created in the middle of Palestinian territory with absolultely not one dime of compensation for the Palestinians, who's families have been there for thousands of years and who lost all their lands, businesses, homes, etc. Add to that the fact that the British redrew all the borders, and paid zero attention to tribal alliances, something that had been the backbone of their civilization since the dawn of humanity. Yes there had been tribal infighting, but everyone knew the rules and played by them, they were the result of tribal disagreements. Many people like to say that they have always fought, which is true, but this divison created something new and was something imposed upon them by the outside, the western world. The redivison of nations created a whole new set of problems.

Originally posted by forestlady
I have to agree with you Pie Man. After WWI, Israel was created in the middle of Palestinian territory with absolultely not one dime of compensation for the Palestinians, who's families have been there for thousands of years and who lost all their lands, businesses, homes, etc. Add to that the fact that the British redrew all the borders, and paid zero attention to tribal alliances, something that had been the backbone of their civilization since the dawn of humanity. Yes there had been tribal infighting, but everyone knew the rules and played by them, they were the result of tribal disagreements. Many people like to say that they have always fought, which is true, but this divison created something new and was something imposed upon them by the outside, the western world. The redivison of nations created a whole new set of problems.

Forestlady
Well some were in fact compensated for the land when it was purchased , but being that the majority of these people selling their land were but sheepherders, farmers , possibly even bedouins, mostly uneducated people and not worldly like the Europeans that were backing the venture, the terms of the agreements were not known to the people residing there. They were not aware of the fact that once the land was sold, that it could not be bought back by a Palestinian, they were also not aware that once the land sold they were not to be even allowed to labor on the land, and the most important was they were not disclosing the true reasons for the purchase of the land was to form a Jewish state, that would not take into account Palestinian rights. I believe that they, like the American Indians were hoodwinked and I believe in some recorded cases strongarmed into selling.

The rest was basically stolen since the majority of Palestinians were made to leave, they couldn't very much make a claim to land if they were not around. Which I can see is one of the reasons why Israel will not allow the right of return to the Palestinians that left or were forced to leave. Then they would have to either pay up or get out. I was wondering why Juddah was saying they couldn't come back...half of the israelis that were squatting would have to pay-up after 60 years of back rent thats a lot of money!


This little site explained some of its mechanisms to me.
www.plands.org...

Pieman, thanks for the info, you filled in alot of holes for me.
P.S. - I like your new avatar.

posted by ThePieMaN

Forestlady
“ . . Some [Arabs - Palestinians] were in fact compensated for the land but the majority of the people selling their land were but sheep herders, farmers , possibly even bedouins, mostly uneducated people and not worldly like the Europeans . . the terms of the agreements were not known to the people . . I believe that like the American Indians they were hoodwinked and I believe in some cases were strong-armed into selling.”

“The rest was basically stolen. The majority of Palestinians were made to leave; they couldn't make a claim to the land. Which I can see is one reason why Israel will not allow the -right of return- to the Palestinians that were forced to leave. I was wondering why Judah was saying they couldn't come back . . half of the Israelis were squatting and would have to pay-up after 60 years!” [Edited by Don W]

I do not believe this is too far off topic. It shows that any event can be settled if there is a desire to do so. After the Nine Eleven Event, Congress enacted The Nine Eleven Victim’s Compensation Fund. One advantage of the unprecedented victims' compensation fund is it works fast. Administrator Kenneth Feinberg determines payments under formulas using a decedent's age, income and dependents. This same process could be adapted to handle the claims of the Arab say Palestinian property owners in Israel. The US ought to fund the payments.

The claims process usually takes about four months; there are 1,615 claims under consideration. The largest award so far, $6 million, went to the family of a victim who earned more than $200,000 a year. In May, a federal judge in New York upheld Feinberg's rules. With the Dec. 22, 2003 deadline to apply for government payments nearing, the relatives of 1,995 deceased victims have submitted claims. Private attorneys warn would-be litigants that they will have to relive the 9/11 tragedy for a long time; aviation-disaster trials and appeals often drag on for 10 years. It is far from certain that juries, despite sympathy for the families, will hold anyone legally liable.

Stuart Newberger, a Washington, D.C., lawyer who has handled terrorism claims against Libya and Iran says a negligence suit is "a real crapshoot." He says the federal fund is "a reasonable choice for victim families to make." The fund offers compensation "far below what one could win in court if successful, but maybe more than one could get in the real world." USA TODAY 7/13/2003. [Edited by Don W]

To see the full 120 page report:
www.usdoj.gov...=%22victims%20claim%20fund%20for%209%2F11%22



[edit on 8/17/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite

I do not believe this is too far off topic. It shows that any event can be settled if there is a desire to do so. After the Nine Eleven Event, Congress enacted The Nine Eleven Victim’s Compensation Fund. One advantage of the unprecedented victims' compensation fund is it works fast. Administrator Kenneth Feinberg determines payments under formulas using a decedent's age, income and dependents. This same process could be adapted to handle the claims of the Arab say Palestinian property owners in Israel. The US ought to fund the payments.

Stuart Newberger, a Washington, D.C., lawyer who has handled terrorism claims against Libya and Iran says a negligence suit is "a real crapshoot." He says the federal fund is "a reasonable choice for victim families to make." The fund offers compensation "far below what one could win in court if successful, but maybe more than one could get in the real world." USA TODAY 7/13/2003. [Edited by Don W]

Don unless they come up with a way to legally snag the land into 100% Israeli ownership there will not be any real peace anytime soon. The palestinians will want full independence and without the ability for refugees to return it would not nor should not be considered independence if Israel can dictate who can come and go. When they can finally get the land thats when they might consider it.