Morality in America

2manyquestions - from my opinion morals do decline. just look at murder, killing of another human. in ww1 they say something like 70% of the soldiers could not fire a gun at another person. look how thats been eroded by people today rational beliefs that murder in war is ok under any circumstances. just look how the news have people on saying that killing little kids is ok because this and that. while in times gone by, no media would have really said stuff like that. so thats a moral that hasn't changed it has just been eroded.

look at torture, something years ago that most would speak out against. today you have countless tv shows depicting torture, and comedy shows depicting torture as something good and funny. while torture of humans should always be wrong, americans and others find alot of it funny today.

the two examples show how morals have been eroded and not changed. but it comes down to the fact that you have to choose whether right and wrong are absolutes or not. if they are society would say when things are wrong they are wrong, but today like so many things thinks are clouded by dehumanisation.

just look at the news today, and you will see people from lebanon, saying why is the world not speaking out about this, and the arab world, and why not do something to syop israel. this is a perfect example, we are so deconditioned to human suffering where things always should be wrong, but today we just do not care.

people who believe that right and wrong are not absolutes are wrong. living in a society that says these things are not wrong, is wrong. but hey, you americans just go and have your fun, playing video games blowing people up and watching hollywood movies where all arabs are terrorists.

Originally posted by andy1033

2manyquestions - from my opinion morals do decline. just look at murder, killing of another human. in ww1 they say something like 70% of the soldiers could not fire a gun at another person.

andy1033,... I think you're ignoring the fact that even today new soldiers have trouble shooting at people. Believe me, a lot of them come back psychologically 'damaged' because of the shots they fired. Anyone who has never shot/killed anyone before will have trouble committing their first act. Did you find any statistics with the same question posed for Soldiers fighting in Iraq? Even if the percentage is lower for those who fight in Iraq, it may have something to do with their current training, not the soldiers' personal morals.

look how thats been eroded by people today rational beliefs that murder in war is ok under any circumstances. just look how the news have people on saying that killing little kids is ok because this and that. while in times gone by, no media would have really said stuff like that. so thats a moral that hasn't changed it has just been eroded.

I've never heard anyone in charge say that "murder in war is ok under any circumstances". If it were, soldiers wouldn't be punished in the court of law for the abuses and deaths of prisoners for instance. Sometimes deaths of innocents are 'justified' by saying it was an accident, but no one in charge (to my knowledge) would say that it was O.K.

You're wrong in thinking that in the old days they would never justify the deaths of innocents, despite how wrong it was. The media (newspapers) back then used propaganda just as much as the media today. How do you think they rallied people to fight in conflicts like the Civil War, or against the English, or French, or Mexicans, or Native Americans? They ran some of the biggest propaganda against the Native Americans,...the "red-skinned Indjin savages" as some might have put it in the old days.

look at torture, something years ago that most would speak out against. today you have countless tv shows depicting torture, and comedy shows depicting torture as something good and funny. while torture of humans should always be wrong, americans and others find alot of it funny today.

You're wrong about this too. They used to hang people in public!! They used to make it a great spectacle. People gathered around, and watched prisoners (sometimes innocent prisoners) break their necks as they fell from the podium. They used to burn people at the stake in public. Some people actually brought their children and picknick baskets to the hangings and burnings. It used to be entertainment for many. I don't think you'll see any of this going on inside the U.S. today. Not anymore. Elsewhere in the world maybe (i.e. public stoning), but not in America.

the two examples show how morals have been eroded and not changed. but it comes down to the fact that you have to choose whether right and wrong are absolutes or not. if they are society would say when things are wrong they are wrong, but today like so many things thinks are clouded by dehumanisation.

Those two examples show nothing of the kind. You know,.... society/the law has to uphold a lot of basic moral principles today in order to stop people inside this country from doing things that were O.K. back in the day, such as torturing and killing animals for sport. Back in the day no one would give a fig about some guy torturing cats, dogs or what have you. Today at least the law gives fines, and maybe even jail time for such cruel acts. Today most people inside this country accept the fact that animals have rights too. Back then most people didn't care.

just look at the news today, and you will see people from lebanon, saying why is the world not speaking out about this, and the arab world, and why not do something to syop israel. this is a perfect example, we are so deconditioned to human suffering where things always should be wrong, but today we just do not care.

Your post, as well as the posts of dozens of people here on this board prove you wrong. People inside America DO care what happens to the Lebanese people. I care, you obviously care, and I bet that millions of people inside the U.S. care as well. We speak our minds about the attrocities in the world every single day. Luckily we have formed a society which allows us to speak our minds this way. Not everyone supports Israel,.....and once again the posts on this board prove it. Maybe nothing is done, because many of us feel powerless at the moment. We, as individuals, obviously have little power over what Israel or Hezbollah does.

people who believe that right and wrong are not absolutes are wrong. living in a society that says these things are not wrong, is wrong. but hey, you americans just go and have your fun, playing video games blowing people up and watching hollywood movies where all arabs are terrorists.

This paragraph shows your ignorance on the American culture. I'm not sure it even deserves a response. As someone who came to America from Europe (and lived in two different countries inside Europe), I think I'm qualified in comparing a couple of cultures. Americans are some of the most tolerant, hard-working people in the world (as far as I can tell). They are compassionate, caring, they try to help those in need, and a large percentage certainly doesn't sit on their behinds playing videogames all day, or watching violent movies. Those are stereotypes you must have picked up from your own biased media, or from believing everything that Hollywood puts into their movies (Most Americans know better than to believe in Hollywood). Just as anywhere else in the world, some people in America aren't educated enough to be able to think for themselves, but this is NOT unique to America. This is true for any nation in the world. Everyone has their village idiot so-to-speak.

Originally posted by marg6043
2manyquestions

Good, point . . . I guess morals have gone through a metamorphosis and just has not decline but only in the eyes of the few that still cling to some old values . . .

While for others old values are just obsolete and new ones are emerging.

Perhaps for the younger generation their view of values is somewhat different from their parents or grandparents.

I guess with each generation values just change to accommodate for the change of times. . . perhaps?

marg6043, that is exactly the point I tried to make. You got it.

Modern culture - and especially hip hop culture - also tends to celebrate stupidity. The less educated you are, the more you can define yourself as a "survivor". Not to mention all those who say that college and university education leads you to becoming part of the liberal "elite" which is allegedly removed from the preoccupations of "the people". So there is, in some circles, a stigma to education.

The problem is, education is key to morality, politeness and general functionality in social interaction.

Well, seeing how morality does'nt really exist, rather it's
an idea that's different with every person.
However, I'd say what's considered moral by christianity,
has taken to much control, America needs less christian
morality and more logical science.

Originally posted by mrwupy
Feeding the homeless, the hungry and those that are just down on their luck and struggling should be an opportunity for each of us. To leave it to the professionals will insure that many needs are not met.

I said that would be the best way and not the only way. Do as you wish, but if you get robbed at knife point, or worse, just remember my little bit of advice. I have extensive experience in this area.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by mrwupy
Feeding the homeless, the hungry and those that are just down on their luck and struggling should be an opportunity for each of us. To leave it to the professionals will insure that many needs are not met.

I said that would be the best way and not the only way. Do as you wish, but if you get robbed at knife point, or worse, just remember my little bit of advice. I have extensive experience in this area.

This is exactly what is wrong with American Morality. Fear based rather than compassionate.

I for one am not buying into the culture of fear that "They" want us to embrace.





[edit on 2-8-2006 by whaaa]

The definition of morality can be taken in many ways depending the person’s background.

Many feel that our nation is in Moral crisis

Is it’s easier to define What is immoral that what constitute a moral value.

Many define Immorality anything that deteriorates the decency, honorable or artistic merit or the purity of thoughts.

In this way it’s easier to point fingers as what is causing the decline of morality in our society.

Many groups that are out there to point fingers will bring the issues to show that everything in our society is destroying America’s moral base.

Again religion is the main factor when it comes to the definition of Immorality or moral values.

It seems to me that modern times and everything that has brought to society is view as immoral and promoting immoral behavior.

How about buying into the culture of reality. I've seen what you have not. I know what you do not. But, don't let me stop you. From now on, why don't you pick a random homeless person off the street, take him home and share Sunday dinner with him and maybe a few of his buddies?

My advice is to fund agencies who specialize in working with this population, but what do I know? I just spent a year and a half eating, sleeping, and working among them. This is one case where what you don't know can hurt you. Street life is far more dangerous than anything most people can imagine, but go ahead. What have you got to lose?


[edit on 2006/8/2 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
How about buying into the culture of reality. I've seen what you have not. I know what you do not. But, don't let me stop you. From now on, why don't you pick a random homeless person off the street, take him home and share Sunday dinner with him and maybe a few of his buddies?
[edit on 2006/8/2 by GradyPhilpott]

GradyPhilpott, Please tell me how you know what I have not seen and what I don't know.

I don't recall ever meeting you. How do you know these things about me.
Seems a bit presumptious and a bit arrogant of you IMO.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by whaaa]

Because if you knew, you would not say the things you say.

Grady what is it we don't know. Please tell us. Deny Ignorance .

What is the fighting about, jelly beans, come on, this is Margs' thread about morality and look what you are doing. Argh.

Otts (Cool Avatar) Thank you. I agree. But is there a solution. How do we oppose to such opinions and neanderthal behaviour?
We are not as bad off as they are in some European counties though, where rudeness is considered a virtue.
WIS

[edit on 3-8-2006 by WalkInSilence]

Originally posted by WalkInSilence
Grady what is it we don't know. Please tell us. Deny Ignorance

.

I have said what I intend to say regarding this tangent. As you said, it is marg's thread.

[edit on 2006/8/4 by GradyPhilpott]

Now there's an interesting question...Is it morally right to feed the homeless? Yourself? Or through an agency? Or at all? Some might argue that to feed them or help an agency would be to perpetuate the homeless problem while you get out there and bust your ass everyday. Me, I've given quite a few dollars to help a brudda out on an individual basis at a convenience store or something. Never got robbed at gun or knife point, but then again, I try to avoid situations where that could happen. Such as in a public park in the dark... Not too smart.

When it comes to the issue of homeless in America I see it as one of those problems in society that neither the government or society as a whole wants ot deal with.

Because if they did it would not be homeless in the streets right now.

Sometimes society tries to hide their ugly side and make it look like the government is doing something about it.

Why giving money to a person sitting in rags in the street when that money is no going to make a difference in his life . . .

He will still there.

Who is the job to provide for people in need in our country.

In a society that is tribal people will take care of its own when they are old and disable or when they fall on bad times.

In a society like ours . . . the government is the one with that role.

The US government has destroyed morality and compassion in america by design in at least these general areas.

Social Programs
Forty years ago or so americans helped each other during hardtimes, however today the government has usurped that role. In taking over this role the government collects tax dollars and provides relief to those in need whereas in the past this role was filled within the community by churches and other charitable organizations. While this seems noble, it is not. The net effect is that it detaches people from each other. We no longer show concern for our neighbors because the collection of taxes for social programs removes the obligation to care. After all we paid taxes for the government to take care of those people, so we've done our civic duty and contributed our share. No guilt or shame for not helping out.

Civil Rights Programs
Affirmative action, college admission quotas for minorities and other similar programs are sold to us on a moral basis, but they are clearly have the opposite effect and are in reality intended to divide americans. The white guy will always feel that he didnt get the job because of his race if minority candidate is hired and the minority hire will never be certain why he was hired. This serves only to create animosity between people which otherwise would not exist. This results in hate of entire races.

Corporatism
Corporatism is also involved which typically extolls the moral code, "if its good for the company, its good for everybody". And given that corporate america owns the government this morality is also endorsed by the government. The individual is pretty much an interchangable part for the corporate machine. The corporation will let you know what your morals are on a need to know basis.
.

Originally posted by WalkInSilence(Cool Avatar) Thank you. I agree. But is there a solution. How do we oppose to such opinions and neanderthal behaviour?
We are not as bad off as they are in some European counties though, where rudeness is considered a virtue.

Thank you! I'm an irreductible Dark Willow fan!

Re European countries, I've been to France three times and my discovery has been that there are two Frances - A) France and B) Paris. Indeed, in the capital people have made being impolite into an art. Even a lot of the provincial French (who are a quite different breed) can't stand Parisians. I've heard that the Parisian tourism office has started giving waiters, hotel clerks, etc. some guidelines on how to interact with visitors, because the attitude was starting to harm tourism. So I have to wonder if part of it is big city vs. rural areas...

I haven't been to France, but a friend of mine went last year and noted the same thing. The Parisians were loathesome and intolerable, while the rural folk were charming and gracious, according to my friend.