Erich Von Daniken and his Ancient Astronauts

I watched the original Stargate movie last night and on the DVD there is a short 11 minute feature on Erich Von Daniken's search for evidence of ancient astronuats.

I intend to make this thread an all-encompassing discussion on the plausibility of such theories.

In this short segment Daniken pushes a few peices of evidence from his research that included some of the following:

1. The Pyramids astronomical alignment

2. An ancient egyptian myth about one egyptian man being given knowledge by an advanced teacher.

3. A group of egyptian temples (I forget the actual name of the sight) that are aligned like the solar system

4. The Naza lines only visible from sky

5. Mayan art that seems to depict the cockpit of a flying machine

I've done some research of my own and it appears that Daniken, as you would expect, as a large host of skeptics and debunkers on his tail. Some of their arguements as follows:

1. Naza lines are visible from surrounding mountains. They may have to do with the Nazcan religion.

2. The Dogomon people were told about Sirius in the 1930's. (whether this is fact I don't know, just one of the skeptics arguements)

3. Discrediting tactics: Daniken lied about some of his artifacts. He insults the intelligence and memory of early civilizations!

4. Demonstrations have shown us that is was completely possible for people to build the pyramids with simple machines. ( but without the wheel)

5. Flying machines in art are just misinterpreted hyroglyphics.

Do the skeptics debunk all of Danikens claims? I'd like to know.

Are there any experts on the subject? What is everyone's opinion?



[edit on 31-7-2006 by CaptainKirk]

Originally posted by CaptainKirk
I watched the original Stargate movie last night and on the DVD there is a short 11 minute feature on Erich Von Daniken's search for evidence of ancient astronuats.

Check UFO sites. Von Daniken made up a lot of his material (yes, really).

1. The Pyramids astronomical alignment

He acts as though Giza was the only pyramid in existance. There are 200 or more in Egypt and others around the world. Frequently they're aligned north-south... which you can do by putting up a stick at the spring or fall equinoxes, marking the shadow in the morning and in the evening... and voila! Accurate north-south-east-west alignment.

2. An ancient egyptian myth about one egyptian man being given knowledge by an advanced teacher.

He made that one up.

3. A group of egyptian temples (I forget the actual name of the sight) that are aligned like the solar system

And that one's a REAL stretch.

4. The Naza lines only visible from sky

Not true. They're visible from the surrounding hills, as many visitors know. in fact, that's how they were first discovered by Westerners (locals knew they were there.)

5. Mayan art that seems to depict the cockpit of a flying machine

The tomb of Pacal. On the lid of the tomb is carved a lot of information (in hieroglyphs) and it says who is buried there and what is happening. No astronaut-ery is involved. He's descending down the World Tree into the underworld.

2. The Dogomon people were told about Sirius in the 1930's. (whether this is fact I don't know, just one of the skeptics arguements)

That's correct. I looked it up and verified it from several sources, including collected tales pre-1930.

3. Discrediting tactics: Daniken lied about some of his artifacts. He insults the intelligence and memory of early civilizations!

An understatement. He doesn't bother to look up what the civilizations wrote about themselves, for example. He plays tricks with the reader, showing them only PART of an artifact and not interpreting the writing around it (or cutting it out. Most famous example is a "drawing" of an "elephant" in Mayan art.)

4. Demonstrations have shown us that is was completely possible for people to build the pyramids with simple machines. ( but without the wheel)

Look up some of the ancient Egyptian temples and buildings in Greece and elsewhere. The pyramids at Giza are dated to around 2500 BC. People were building large-scale stuff (complex things like temples with columns and multi-ton well-carved blocks of stone for the roof.)

5. Flying machines in art are just misinterpreted hyroglyphics.

Yes. In fact, you might want to learn to read Egyptian hieroglyphics (several sites here teach that) and Mayan hieroglyphics. Von Daniken never bothered to learn to read them.

Do the skeptics debunk all of Danikens claims? I'd like to know.

I can't think of any major points that he actually got right. I've seen a number of those artifacts (and good photos of others) and I've gone into the anthropological databases (collections of world folklore, dating from 1800 onward). What I found (in ORIGINAL sources) confirms the skeptics.

I was once a Von Daniken believer, until I encountered the book "Crash go the Chariots." That made me stop and research for myself, asking the question -- who was right: Crash or Von Daniken.

If you go to ORIGINAL sources (look at the original stones, lines, artifacts, walk around them, read the inscriptions for yourself and read the other writings that these civilizations left), Von Daniken turns out to be a fraud, a fool, and an outright liar.

...I saw on a TV show a number of years ago (maybe about 10) that the "Stylized Bird" that looks like a Delta Wing Jet was proved to be faked.

It was a modern carving that had been "Etched" with some sort of acid that made it appear to be worn from 'The Ages.”

You say it is a stretch, but the video clearly shows an ancient egyptian ruin that looks as if it is a model of the solar system. I'll try to find out the exact name of the ruin. I'd like more research to be done to ensure it's inaccurate.

Also Daniken wasn't the one who spoke of the egyptian legend, that was the narrator of the segment on the dvd. I'll go watch it again to take some notes.

Captain Sir,

You may want to run a search here at ATS for von Daniken's name. You'll probably find a lot of posts over in the Ancient Civilizations section. Just remember everyone might not have spelled it properly.

You might not agree for the moment, but it's been my experience that anything Byrd has to say should be listened to, absorbed, and taken for granted as factual.

(...waiting for you to return my salute before I can get back to my station... )

Harte

It is not that I have anything against Byrd. In fact I look forward to his reply and glad of his expertise. Just want a better debunking than "thats a stretch", which I'm sure he could do if I gave him more information.

I remember now that it wasn't an Egyptian city that showed a model of the solar system it was the Mexican ruin of Teotihuacan, "City of the Gods."

Danikens story was that Egyptain Historians believed the Pyramids were constructed before the great flood (egyptian flood myth) by a guy named Zaorit, (or Zaorhet, or Saorhet, couldn't understand Daniken). According to the myth Zaorit was taught by "creatures from heaven." They taught him to write and dictated him books in which he stored in his creation, the pyramids, to keep safe during the flood.

Ever heard of this myth before?

That's correct. I looked it up and verified it from several sources, including collected tales pre-1930.

Correct that the whole Sirius mystery is fabrication or correct that the Dogomen knew about Sirius long before 1930?

[edit on 1-8-2006 by CaptainKirk]

Originally posted by Byrd
... Von Daniken turns out to be a fraud, a fool, and an outright liar.

Yes, but he made a lot of money from his tales.

The wilder and more fantastic the claim, the better the book or fraudumentary sells. That is what conspiracy theory is all about, isn't it?

You can call me all the names you want as long as I get an 8 figure bank account out of it!

Originally posted by CaptainKirk

In fact I look forward to his reply and glad of his expertise. Just want a better debunking than "thats a stretch", which I'm sure he could do if I gave him more information.

Her...

Originally posted by Harte

anything Byrd has to say should be listened to, absorbed, and taken for granted as factual

I agree She knows her stuff