Ireland worker finds ancient psalms in bog

This is news from a few days ago, I tried searching these forums and couldn't find it posted (sorry if it's already been).

This is pretty amazing...and quite spectactular at the same time, especially this part:

"The book was found open to a page describing, in Latin script, Psalm 83, in which God hears complaints of other nations' attempts to wipe out the name of Israel"


link

Interesting article! Now I have to go back and read Psalms 83 again.

That is the best piece of propaganda I have read in a long, long time.

Thanks for the link and the amazing story . . .

Here is the full Psalm 83 text from the NKJV of the Bible:

1 A Song. A Psalm of Asaph. Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God! 2 For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, And consulted together against Your sheltered ones. 4 They have said, "Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more." 5 For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You: 6 The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites; Moab and the Hagrites; 7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assyria also has joined with them; They have helped the children of Lot. Selah

9 Deal with them as with Midian, As with Sisera, As with Jabin at the Brook Kishon, 10 Who perished at En Dor, Who became as refuse on the earth. 11 Make their nobles like Oreb and like Zeeb, Yes, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna, 12 Who said, "Let us take for ourselves The pastures of God for a possession." 13 O my God, make them like the whirling dust, Like the chaff before the wind! 14 As the fire burns the woods, And as the flame sets the mountains on fire, 15 So pursue them with Your tempest, And frighten them with Your storm. 16 Fill their faces with shame, That they may seek Your name, O Lord. 17 Let them be confounded and dismayed forever; Yes, let them be put to shame and perish, 18 That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.

I read this "news" a few days ago and funny how my mind also went to "propaganda". I mean just how convenient and timely for this particular psalm to surface as the page that this relic was found turned to.

I really should stop being so cynical and jaded but it's hard not to be these days when we fight religious wars under false pretenses.

Then again, what's a payloader driver in Ireland care much about Israel and Lebanon to make up something like this?

although I DO remain skeptical (when I first read it I figured it was a hoax), if it were true to be turned to that specific page, it's pretty interesting.

one of the posts had a link to a place where it was claimed that the KJV of the Bible had renumbered the psalms so that what was actually turned up on the supposed find was Psalm 84.

Here it is from the NKJV:

1 To the Chief Musician. On an instrument of Gath. A Psalm of the sons of Korah. How lovely is Your tabernacle, O Lord of hosts! 2 My soul longs, yes, even faints For the courts of the Lord; My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. 3 Even the sparrow has found a home, And the swallow a nest for herself, Where she may lay her young-- Even Your altars, O Lord of hosts, My King and my God. 4 Blessed are those who dwell in Your house; They will still be praising You. Selah 5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in You, Whose heart is set on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, They make it a spring; The rain also covers it with pools. 7 They go from strength to strength; Each one appears before God in Zion.

8 O Lord God of hosts, hear my prayer; Give ear, O God of Jacob! Selah 9 O God, behold our shield, And look upon the face of Your anointed. 10 For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand. I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God Than dwell in the tents of wickedness. 11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield; The Lord will give grace and glory; No good thing will He withhold From those who walk uprightly. 12 O Lord of hosts, Blessed is the man who trusts in You!

Well actually the area where the book was found has been dig out by Archaeologist before with the owners permission. . .

Now very interesting to point out that make me think is a hoax . . .is this quote from the story. . .

"There's two sets of odds that make this discovery really way out. First of all, it's unlikely that something this fragile could survive buried in a bog at all, and then for it to be unearthed and spotted before it was destroyed is incalculably more amazing."

That either means somebody put the book in there . . . or somebody is claiming in very let your imagination work it out way. . . that is a miracle or an omen.

So I imagine that only the devout will depending on their faith will claim to be a miracle and an omen of things to come. . . in relation with Israel and the coflict is involved.

Actually guys, I'd like to shed some light on this I live in Ireland and this story was first reported as 1000 year old book found in bog..nothing about the psalms until a few days later when the books was partially translated.Nothing was said about the book being found open on a certain page,

"There's two sets of odds that make this discovery really way out. First of all, it's unlikely that something this fragile could survive buried in a bog at all, and then for it to be unearthed and spotted before it was destroyed is incalculably more amazing."

The book was written in vellum made from calf skin which is orgainic before one suggests this cant be preserved bog they really need to do some reasearch into Bog Bodies in fact the bog is the perfect place to preserve orgainic material. Archaeological finds are pretty common in bogs the fact this book was found was probally just pure luck like most archaeological finds...think dead sea scrolls.

Another tidbit from the story that smells a little fishy to me. The bog owner didn't remove the book immediately, but re-buried it until it could be properly removed.

Crucially, he said, the bog owner covered up the book with damp soil. Had it been left exposed overnight, he said, "it could have dried out and just vanished, blown away."

If antiquities are often uncovered in bogs, then perhaps this isn't odd behavior...but it just doesn't seem to be the normal actions of a regular Joe uncovering something on his land.

Well I'm a regualr joe for one and I'd have the common sense to put the book back into the peat that has been preserving it for over 1000 years in the hopes of stoping degredation.Plus this guys is a peat farmer im sure he has an interest in history and signifacance of bogs, he's not just some uneducated guy from the sticks.

EDIT ; on another note most bog bodys are transported from the bogs encased in peat, they begin to degrade on contact with air.

[edit on 28-7-2006 by Merkeva]

I stand corrected, Merkeva.

(Although I'm still a little skeptical of the story as a whole...)

The book was open to Psalms 83, but in this older Latin version of the Bible Psalms 83 is not the chapter that has been quoted in the media. Today we read in Reuters.

The confusion arose because the manuscript uses an old Latin translation of the Bible known at the Vulgate, which numbers the psalms differently from the later King James version, the 1611 English translation from which many modern texts derive.

"The Director of the National Museum of Ireland ... would like to highlight that the text visible on the manuscript does not refer to wiping out Israel but to the 'vale of tears'," the museum said.

The vale of tears is in Psalm 84 in the King James version.

The text in the Latin version of this Bible isn't different, (Other than being Latin) but scholars often debate on where the chapter breaks should occur. Thus the confusion.

Thanks, curiousity & dbates. Psalms 84 then. I hadn't thought of propaganda, but that would fit a purpose wouldn't it

Would it really suprise anyone to find out that the bible is just jewish propaganda. I mean come on people, why would the son of god not write his own thoughts on paper instead of depending on men which we all know aren't perfect. Maybe because "if" Jesus
did actually exist then he was about ideas not things written in stone as people act like the bible is. Don't get me wrong I believe in god, but the only thing that the bible admits to that god ever wrote in stone is the 10 commandments. The rest is just mens interpretation of what the supposed son of god, maybe he was, said. I'm just tossing in my 2 cents but hey thats what this site is about. Even Jesus threw priests out of the churches because of them pushing their agenda. Think for yourself.....

Speaking of the new testament of course. But the old testament is more interpretation of men. I agree that the bible has great moral ideas, but I don't agree that it is the be all end all. Unless your insane then you can figure whats right and wrong for yourself without a book. Lean on yourself and not a history book.

[edit on 28-7-2006 by Anarchyistheway]

Originally posted by Anarchyistheway
Would it really suprise anyone to find out that the bible is just jewish propaganda. I mean come on people, why would the son of god not write his own thoughts on paper instead of depending on men which we all know aren't perfect. Maybe because "if" Jesus did actually exist then he was about ideas not things written in stone as people act like the bible is. Don't get me wrong I believe in god, but the only thing that the bible admits to that god ever wrote in stone is the 10 commandments. The rest is just mens interpretation of what the supposed son of god, maybe he was, said. I'm just tossing in my 2 cents but hey thats what this site is about. Even Jesus threw priests out of the churches because of them pushing their agenda. Think for yourself.....

The religious Jews of the day didn't write the New Testament which is what you are using to disparage Christian/Messianic beliefs. The majority of the New Testament was written by Jews who had become believers in the Son of God, that is who are now called Messianic Jews, not orthodox Jews, like the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day.

Believe me if it was Jewish propaganda, the New Testament would never have been written as it is now. Orthodox Jews are still awaiting the Messiah, for one thing.

Originally posted by Merkeva
Actually guys, I'd like to shed some light on this I live in Ireland and this story was first reported as 1000 year old book found in bog..nothing about the psalms until a few days later when the books was partially translated.Nothing was said about the book being found open on a certain page,

Thanks for bringing common sense back into the Speculative Thoughts offered by Scoffers.

And if there are any interested, here is a Copy for both the 83 and 84 Versed from Psalms with the Latin (Vulgate), Hebrew (Tanach), and Greek (Septuagint) inline with the KJV 1611

Incase you ever wish to compare the Original Languages someday.

www.sacred-texts.com...
www.sacred-texts.com...

You can even go back to the Main Index from here, and search for any verses you wish to compare against the Original.

Ciao

Shane

Curiosity you still didn't answer the question of why Jesus didn't write his own gospel instead of allowing men to do it for him. Yes I'm well aware that orthodox jews and muslims are waiting for the messiah. What about gospels from the other places and people that jesus went to? Sorry for the post name change but I thought I lost my login for my posting nick so I signed up for another, then I found my original in a backup of thunderbird.

Originally posted by Bleargest
Curiosity you still didn't answer the question of why Jesus didn't write his own gospel instead of allowing men to do it for him.

Since you did not get an Answer, can I ask?

What has this got to do with the Old Testament and the Book of Psalms being found in Ireland?

Nothing? Maybe make your Own Topic to this point. I am sure you would get responses.

Ciao

Shane