So called god's "plan"

According to christians, god has a plan written out. What was written shall be. But then what is the point? According to christians everything that happens was written in god's plan 6,000 years ago(according to church that how old everything is) and that is that. But why do you pray then? If you or a loved one is sick and going to die, god wrote it out in his plan for it to happen. I know some christians will make some stuff up about it not applying anymore for some reason or other. But in the bible god made a plan and that is what will happen. In gods plan I type this up on ATS and so I am.

So, why pray? Why WORRY! What ever happens will happen no matter what for god said it would happen in the plan. Reason 9/11 happened because god wrote it in his plan. Reason Hitler killed millions is because wrote it out in his plan. Actually, that makes sense. Jews weren't christian so god wrote that a christian would kill them off.

Anyways, want real non-babble/dogma responses. I won't get them, but still I will ask for logical responses. But this is dealing with religon, so we know logic is thrown out as satanic and thinking is thrown out for as colonel says, vote republican, it easier than thinking for yourself.

so what about the humans who were pre 6000 years ago? did they just wonder about aimlessly? if this 6000 year odl plan is true it only strengthens my believe that the "gods" were extraterrestrial. my idea of "gods plan" is that it is all the possible happenings, and your free will allows you to chose which reality you experience.

Quote-"Actually, that makes sense. Jews weren't Christian so God wrote that a christian would kill them off."

No this happened by the free will of a man, not by God. God made the Jew His chosen people, through a Covenant, before Christians whom are also God's chosen people through the New Covenant. God doesn't break Covenants, humans do.

God has a plan but it is up to us if we stay on it or deviate from it, not Him. I'll write more on this later.

chosen by god is merely the jewish interpretation, i think the jewish have a certain mission from some ethereal being and the people whom seek ascension and the unifying knowledge are born with a different mission. I think the reason the jewish were persecuted throughout time was because their mission is for the jewish people to survive and not the rest of the world and the ascension ones are for most of humanity. while the sheep go with whomever can impress them the most. however the ascension seekers have been out of power for ever as far as i know, the only way they will be able to gain the power is when they find the "holy grail" or unifying knowledge or whatever so they can convince the sheep with something solid.
i just hope the heir uses his free will to remove the sword from the stone.

Plan?
Jews his chosen people?
Please, how much more egocentric can you be.
You cant know anything about God, His plans, his age, his anything.
Its obsolete to even begin to fathom his infinite being.
I dont think God has a certain Chose people, we are all his. Equal in his eyes no matter, caste, creed, race.
The reasons Hitler killed so many is not becuase it was written out in God's plan, becuase he chose to.
I really doubt God has a plan written out, and if he does I doubt even more that we would ever know about it.
Deep

Some things about Hitler,now as far as this is concerned Hitler was NOT Christian. I REPEAT,... HITLER WAS NOT CHRISTIAN! As a matter of fact he even tried killing off those who were,... one Christian of WWII who was a man named Deitrich Bonhoffer. Hitler was a Marxist along with all the other big wig nazi stooges. The one thing that set the Nazi movement apart from the other forms of socialism and communism was the fact that it:

1. Didn't strive for a utopia in the usual
marxist form, it strived for social and economic unity of the German people, leading it strait into the second.

2. A high pride of being German to the extreme of racism, and then subjecting the rest of the world to it because Germany "was supreme" and 'had' the power to subject others.

[Edited on 10-29-2003 by Cearbhall]

Correction Carhall, hitler killed catholics and protestants. He was a different branch and killed off those of different branches. According to the bible god made a plan and everything, yes EVERYTHING! that happens is because god said it would happen. And for the people pre 6000 years ago, they didn't exist. The catholic church said the world is 6,000 years old. In fact everything is 6,000 years old. So no pre 6000 years ago for them. Well, the true diehard christians anyways. Another reason he killed off catholics and protestants was because they didn't worship him or his version of christianity. Which version? Could be Luthern, methodist, mormon, Luke, Martin, and a thousand other versions.

But it doesn't matter. Hitler had no choice. In god's plan he was suppose to become a dictator and kill millions for god's plan said so. Yep, god wrote it would happen so it did.

James,

you don't have a clue?
then why act like you do?

Banjo,

you have spoken the truth you deserve a vote because of it IMHO!

but consider that Jews did have a lofty purpose but it became diverted due to their love of life and all it can offer, the original sin in Eden.

now the rest of us are on our own as you suggest.

good work.

James, I must agree, you have no idea.

You keep saying the bible says. But all you have are pre-conceived idea's developed by a biblically ignorant society.

You keep saying God has planned everything, from Hitler to our own choices. The only "Christians" who believe this are 5 star calvanist(extreme Calvanism), who are considered wrong by the rest of the Christian world.

Since the fall of man kind back in eden. God saw that man didn't want to follow Him and His ways, so He let us do what we wanted.

This is why there is so much evil in the world. Because men are evil and they get what they want. Hitler wanted power, so he devoted his life to achieving that.

When you understand the Gospel, how it is revealed in Scripture, you will understand why the world is the way it is. And why you need to believe in Jesus Christ.

But I can see nothing I say can help. You don't want a reason to believe in God, you want reasons not to believe. But thats your choice.


[Edited on 29-10-2003 by StationsCreation]

Dude, don't get me started. All monotheistic religions are pure crap. I might start yelling soon.

'NotTooHappy' I felt the same way about 2 years ago, trust me I know how you feel.
But when I was tired of all the dead ends I was coming across on my endless persuit for truth. I put away my bias and just wanted truth.
Bias is a terrible thorn in the side, when you want absolute truth.
A strange sequence of events happened to me and the God of the bible revealed Himself to me, and this was because I asked Him to with pure motive, prepared to accept what was revealed.

Now I study theology, doctrine and this all compliments my previous studies of science. It would take more to convince me that what I believe is a crock, because there is just too much stuff that I couldn't logically reason away.

But I don't want to get you yelling, your certainly entiled to your opinion. I'm not going to strap some C-4 to my chest and knock at your door until you believe

All is well, ultimate truth will be revealed to us in the here after, whether its what we wanted or not. I think the universe owe's us that much

Originally posted by StationsCreation
'NotTooHappy' I felt the same way about 2 years ago, trust me I know how you feel.
But when I was tired of all the dead ends I was coming across on my endless persuit for truth. I put away my bias and just wanted truth.
Bias is a terrible thorn in the side, when you want absolute truth.
A strange sequence of events happened to me and the God of the bible revealed Himself to me, and this was because I asked Him to with pure motive, prepared to accept what was revealed.

Now I study theology, doctrine and this all compliments my previous studies of science. It would take more to convince me that what I believe is a crock, because there is just too much stuff that I couldn't logically reason away.

But I don't want to get you yelling, your certainly entiled to your opinion. I'm not going to strap some C-4 to my chest and knock at your door until you believe

All is well, ultimate truth will be revealed to us in the here after, whether its what we wanted or not. I think the universe owe's us that much

I was raised by athiests. Then, I was a philosophy major in college specializing in theology. I've studied up on this # alot and all I can say I've discovered is that it is, in fact, pure crap.

NTH,

what you believe today is not what you may believe tomorrow.

you do not have to explain yourself but know that as the grains of sand that are time as we experience it fall upon you, you will change too.

in what way I do not know.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
I was raised by athiests. Then, I was a philosophy major in college specializing in theology. I've studied up on this # alot and all I can say I've discovered is that it is, in fact, pure crap.

Can I ask you a question?

Why do you get so angry about such issue's about God? I mean I see this as an ongoing theme in these message boards. Everybody gets so angry and defencive when it comes to God, and more particulary Christianity.
I don't see anybody getting worked up about Hindu's, Buddists, Pagans or most others faiths.

I just don't understand. I can understand someone just not agreeing or difference's of opinions. But getting worked up and angry over an issue someone dosn't even thinks exists, its as if theres a deeper issue.

Can you explain to me why?

I know there has been alot of evil done in the name of Jesus, but this isn't Christianity. People are always going to abuse it, but its not what Jesus or the Apostles ever taught.

Religion is like a hampster wheel, is it not? You can go to church get off drugs, get your life straightened out and get busy and prosper. And for years you can think you have all the answers in the Bible. And then one day you realize you have only scratched the surface.

most the teachings of jesus aren't in your standard bible, it's hidden from us because we would leave organized religion. Jesus was teaching how to connect yourself with the kingdom of god, which is like the highest density in what i believe, but jesus teachings only get us to the 4th density, there are 6 as far as i believe.

thnx theneo, glad u know

Calling a religion "pure crap" is inclined to affend those that are respectively religiously inclined.

As Christians see it, gods plan is what will happen. Yet, the christian majority believe that he gave man a free will. Such a doctorate would obviously declare anything to the contrary false.

As for some of the Christians that believe that he has a personal plan for them, any further inquiry would result in them not saying that their actions are all pre-conceptualized; that is derived from the interpretations of non-christians who believe in the purely cause and affect relationship set out by Newton; partly by Leonardo Divinci. Instead, In my own opinion, a reaction that thier lives have importance in the eyes of god and that his plan for them was for them to live and for the inclusion of the a-fore-mentioned free will.

Quote-"The catholic church said the world is 6,000 years old."

Uh the Church hasn't made this statement, it is the fundamentalists who tout this thought pattern a la creationists. The Catholic Church has a neutral stance on these subjects, The Church has come to that science and faith can exist together.