a question for the womenfolk

i've been told "i don't want to be in a relationship", i've been told "i love you", i've been told "right now's just not the right time", "i'm probably going to start dating other people (not a relationship though)", "i don't know why i feel this way"....


what the hell? is it natural for a woman to be this confusing, or am i just being played? i want to believe her on the 'i love you' thing based on some of her actions, but a lot of the BS she's been pulling makes it seem like she wants one thing from me, while i want a completely different thing from her.

wtf is a poor boy to do, eh?

Hey....I've heard the same from guys.


It's not a gender issue, it's a cultural issue.

hmm. none of the guys i know, then.

if you love someone, then there shouldn't be any issues with being in a relationship with that person, am i right? and that's not a rhetorical question, i'm totally cognizant of the fact that i may just be stupid in these matters.

Love is the main thing, but it isn't the only thing.

There are several reasons I'd leave the love of my life and not look back. ...and have done so. Some men are not worth loving (not a reference to you in the remotest).

well, if it's not too much to ask, could you elaborate?

i know i've got some issues to work out, but i would think she's know me well enough to know that my last screw up, as big as it was, taught me the error of my ways. i'm not completely retarded.

First off..I am surmising by your post and what is missing from it that you are somewhat young. No problem here. Rembmber this ..it takes two to tango. It is difficult for most to see through what the other side is thinking or even not thinking.

What you are getting from these women/females is a strategy or technique to put you in a certain place with such a answer. A place which is convenient for her ..not you.
This is textbook compartmentalization..to put you where they need you without taking to much risk or to put it another way ..to decrease their vulnurability. Most people dont like to appear vulnurable. Another way of putting it..is commitment phobia. The textbook standard for a long time is that only men were commitment phobes..not so.

Though men do this too it is done for different reasons for either sex .but both for purposes of decreasing ones vulnurability while exercising ones phobias.

The way you handle this is simply to tell her that ... "you do not have time for her insecuritys". If you love or feel for her in a stupid manner you will continue to ignorantly pick up on her clues and cues and wait around for her to come around....like a puppy dog looking for attention. Dont bother. THere are lots of women out there just as there are lots of men for these women.

The point is..."YOU' take a stand..and she can deal with it..but be ready to back it up and walk away. This is called "Leadership" not trying out for approval what you are doing.

You are looking for a girlfriend or a woman who can help and compliment you in areas you lack..not a woman or girlfriend who keeps you jumping to her tune through insecurity or crisis managment excercises.....ie....drama or drama queens.
Dont you be a drama queen either ..women hate this kind of man too. It is insecure in a man.. they hate this.

This requires confidence from you ..no insecurity on your part..understand.

The other thing for you to realize about women is that they tend to want or desire thier men ...ready made. They are not looking for a career in making/educating a man secure and fulfilled just to lose him to another woman...it just isnt done. Most women are not this secure in themselves...both educationally or socially. This kind of thinking does not fit in with the female religion. Most women want thier man ready made not a man they have to make themselves.
They are not here to educate you to the facts of life..especially about women. So dont hold alot of hope in this category. You must educate yourself by careful observation followed by real thinking ..not emotionalism.
Remember ..no women I know of educates a man to lose him to the next woman coming down the pipeline. This is very telling about what you have experienced and are describing.

You wont find this in many books either because the bulk of books on relationships are directed to women. YOu have to learn to think for yourself here.

Hope this helps 25 Cents. Confidence...olde man..Confidence. Stand your ground and mean it. Dont be wishy washy..women hate that especially in a man.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Why is it that everytime there is a thread like this, someone has to post some complicated strategy that the woman is performing to try to get a man where she wants him? Come on, we are not con artists. Sure there are some people in general that do things like that, but I don't feel it is the majority.

Perhaps 25cents, your girl is confused about what she wants, her needs and herself in general. If she is saying that she loves you but doesn't want to be in a relationship right now, it just seems like perhaps she isn't finished discovering herself and defining who she is. If she is in that stage, I could completly understand why she would love you but not be ready for a relationship at that time.

...

If someone says any of that to you, it means "I don't want to be with you anymore. Thanks for the ride." People who say things like "I love you but I think we should go our separate ways" are trying not to make you feel like an ass for wasting your time with said person. They don't want to hurt your feelings.

Next time someone says that to you, escort them to the door and introduce them to your foot.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by Akraites]

Originally posted by 25cents
well, if it's not too much to ask, could you elaborate?

i know i've got some issues to work out, but i would think she's know me well enough to know that my last screw up, as big as it was, taught me the error of my ways. i'm not completely retarded.

The actual love: I did and do love this particular person, still. No longer in love. Currently have a diffrent man whom I love to the point of mild paranoia about losing him~very much in love.

The man himelf: Grade A A*******
Played mind games. Would use something I'd say about him to his face and spout it as something he thought up on his own about me, not to my face, but in public, where it would get back to me. We had some sort of open relationship thing (hey, in college, it was much mroe fun to not be serious)...but would be insanely jealous of any male I was a little too friendly with while he would flirt with my best friend in front of my face, after I worned him that if he did, it would mess up her and my relationship (she and I don't really talk anymore). He's a drama queen, and he quite well drove me insane. He'd throw around the phrase "I love you" whenever I had enough and was trying to call it quits. This is not nearly all the stunts he's pulled.

Basically, he's one of those guys that you'd take a hot brand to that marks his forhead with the phrase "Walking penis" There's nothing redeemable about him.

Currently, he's doing the same thing to another one of my friends...except for they are supposed to be exclusive. She won't lsiten to me, and isn't likely to, even if I told her who and when he slpt around on her with...and I know most of it. not lik eI want to be involved, anyway.

I am currently afraid to hang out around him because he will try to sleep with me again, like he tried to do on her birthday, at her birthday party, and I have someone else that I have every reason in the world to be loyal to. I can literally knock the tar out of him, but I know how persuasive he can be, and I don't want to chance it. I want little to do with him.

Yet I still love him.

Thank God I'm with a good man.

thanks y'alls.

here's what's being laid out to me:

she's been through one marriage, and she doesn't want to feel like she's making a mistake. she feels that she wasted 6 years of her life with the douchebag (he IS a douchebag).

what i'm freaking out about is the fact that i don't understand any of this. it's my first long term relationship, i'm 100% done with the singles game. i've played all the games there are, and i'm ready to settle down with someone who makes me happy, which she normally does. some of the things she says are really disconcerting though, and she has major trust issues with me because she THINKS i slept with someone else while we were on a 'break', which i did not do.

basically, yeah, she's got a lot of her own issues, and so do i. i understand the whole 'walk away' mentality, but i just don't understand how we can both be so happy together when we're actually together and not figure a way to make things work out.

a few weeks ago, she told me her doctor thought she might have hep b - if she did, i would get it. i didn't even get angry with her, i consoled her and made sure she knew that i was there for her. taht night we went to see pirates of the caribbean, and the 2 hours we spent waiting for the movie were freakin awesome, we had so much fun.

we're both pretty jealous people, but she doesn't seem to care about that most of the time. she's very flirty and doesn't really bother to hide it from me, which pisses me off a lot.

jesus...i'm 22, and i'm asking for relationship advice on the internet. shouldn't i have this BS figured out by now?

i really wish i could just explain to her the way i see things, and how easy it could be, and everything would be ok. every time i talk to her though, i feel like i'm being manipulative. rargh!

*edit* - neither of us have contagious hep b by the way - she's got a liver problem, but not an actual virus

[edit on 27-7-2006 by 25cents]

I have loved and enjoyed the company of many women in my life. It is not the same as planning or carrying out a future with them and the commitment levels required to carry out this future. This is why I said it takes two to tango. To tango in this manner is very different from going out together and having a "Awsome night out." Do not confuse the two ..they are not the same thing.

Something very important for you to consider. YOu are not in competition with this so called "douchbag " she was married to for six years. You need to let her know this as part of a leadership role. Most men here just tuck their tails between thier legs and suffer through this baggage these women are carrying. Dumb thing to do. This is why I stated clearly...you dont have time for her inseucritys. Got the point yet?? You need to let her know this and tell her to come up to the mark..or make plans to go somewhere else...and mean it....carry through with this.

What you are telling me is that this woman you are seeing would be just as happy with a "makeover " from Maury or Montel or ....whats that womans name....Oprah. As long as it is a "Awsome makeover." Get a clue olde man.

If your not good with words or thinking...dont bother. My guess is that this woman can out emote you faster than you can think or respond. You are way behind the curve here. This is why I said..think dont emote. Learn to be secure in what you want and know.

This woman was married for six years...are you telling me that this woman is older than you or just got married at sixteen or such??
If she is older..no wonder she is not in any hurry to take up with you other than a good time. Are you thinking here??

Once again..an "awsome time" is not the same as a long term marriage or settling down and the commitment levels required for this. By this I somewhat think you are not really analyzing it through sufficiently for the purposes of your survival. Remember ..a long term relationship and marriage is also called survival..not a "Awsome Time."
I pretty much agree with Akraites assesement of this situation.

Snoflake_Obsidian,
Sorry I'm not giving 25 cents the Readers Digest version of events. Perhapsed I should send him a Relationship Quiz instead..you know like the ones in Cosmo or Elle.
Confusion is also insecurity. Neither does 25cents need to be taking on this baggage for her.
Relationships at this kind of emotional levels are often difficult. Emotions are not enough to see one through difficult times without some diciplines. The two often work in opposite directions. I am not sure either one of them is ready for this.
I also think 25cents has alot to learn about both manhood and womanhood and is way behind the learning curve. I dont hold much hope for this woman teaching him ..do you??? How about other women??? Can this even be taught or learned in the Readers Digest version?? You know..between sound bites and commercial interruptions??


Thanks,
Orangetom

right, i'm well aware that one night does not a relationship make. i though i'd stated that we'd been together for about 9 months.

anyway, i'm done with it. she's done with it. she can't or won't give me a straight answer, and it sucks, but i'm right with you - i'm fully tired of standing by her when she's got other things on her mind.

25cents, your first post reminds me alot of myself. I've said the exact same things to my other half at times. I don't understand it myself but it's how I feel.

YOu posted:

"anyway, i'm done with it. she's done with it. she can't or won't give me a straight answer, and it sucks, but i'm right with you - i'm fully tired of standing by her when she's got other things on her mind."

Good for you. Your wising up. Just dont let her get wishy washy and talk you into coming back ...especially on her terms.

I do hope you find a woman more satisfying to you and that has something really long term to offer you ..not drama.

Most of my life I have dated older women. This is how I came into the knowlege of some of the things of which I post. Mind you now..even older women do not educate you in the ways of women just to lose you to the next woman down the road.

I used to try out alot for approval from women. You know..always doing my best to please..like trying out for the baseball team. An older women I knew and told my frustrations to..enlightened me by laughing at me and declaring...."Ha Ha...she's got you thinking that she is sitting on the only one in town!!!!." YOu know 25cents...It actually irritated me for awhile until it finally dawned on me that this olde woman was correct about how ignorant I was. In trying out for approval it was causing this woman to disrespect me..I was convenient for times of boredom..or needing entertaining or rescuing but not regularly. I was kept at a distance usually..on her terms. I finally left her when I woke up from my self imposed stuipd. Not anymore.
Am I going to be correct about everything..no ..not possible. But certain patterns of behaviors in people can be learned and spotted. It requires diciplines..not emotions.

I do hope you find a woman worthy of your time. Educate yourself...do some thinking. Dont sell yourself short like this again.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Sounds to me your gf has a history and now doesnt trust her judgement. That is a killer in relationships. Your sure of what you want but she isnt. So she is probably fine and dandy one minute then back tracking the next. There is nothing you can do to get her to trust her feelings, nothing. She has to overcome that and in the meantime its hard for you.

all the best

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Snoflake_Obsidian,
Sorry I'm not giving 25 cents the Readers Digest version of events. Perhapsed I should send him a Relationship Quiz instead..you know like the ones in Cosmo or Elle.
Confusion is also insecurity. Neither does 25cents need to be taking on this baggage for her.
Relationships at this kind of emotional levels are often difficult. Emotions are not enough to see one through difficult times without some diciplines. The two often work in opposite directions. I am not sure either one of them is ready for this.
I also think 25cents has alot to learn about both manhood and womanhood and is way behind the learning curve. I dont hold much hope for this woman teaching him ..do you??? How about other women??? Can this even be taught or learned in the Readers Digest version?? You know..between sound bites and commercial interruptions??


Thanks,
Orangetom

Well, I don't read those magazines, nor do I read romance novels. I am not that kind of lady. And you are right, even though her insecurities are understandable after her divorce, 25 cents should not have to sit around and wait for her to come around. I wasn't suggesting that at all. But you made it sound like she was playing some kind of con on him and I don't think she is trying to do that at all. I just think she is at a time where she needs time alone to get herself back on track again.

Hello NJE 777. good to see you again. Its been awhile. I agree with your assessment too. Well done. Thanks.

Snowflake Obsidian,
I am glad to see you dont read those magazines or Romance Novels. I do on occasion read them. The last ones I read were the Wolf and the Dove by Kathleen Woodwiss and the Clan of the Cave Bear series. They are both older books as I recall by the copyright dates but entertaining.
THe Clan of the Cavebear series...good grief. The author spread out the sex scenes over some 200 to 300 pages before the couple finally got together. Reminded me of the olde serial cowboy movies where the action was about to happen and you had to come back next week and pay again. It was such a relief so that you could finally get on with the real story happening. It gave me the impression the author was sexually frustrated for most of thier life.
I gotta tell you ...some of these books and magazines border on pornography in their technique. I dont blame you for not reading them. They can be somewhat entertaining but not much real depth to them.

Whether this woman is doing this intentionally as a strategy or from insecuritys inherent to her experiences .....this is not the role for 25cents. The facet of intrest to me is that 25cents doesnt seem to know the difference. He only knows tell tale traces indicating that something is not right. That his numbers are not adding up as he desires or wants. This indicates lack of power or control over his life or the direction he desires to travel. Like many men he picks up on her clues and cues and defaults over to her settings and requirements. He needs to learn to get over this hurdle. He needs to learn to peel back the veneer and look inside..deeper where it really counts. This will also mean taking a good look at himself inside..and also his value system because if he doesnt ...he will default again the next time or with the next woman and for the wrong reasons...making himself insecure again in the process.

Thanks,
Orangetom

i have doen this beofre to someone. it sucks and it makes you feel like crap/
the reason that i think i did this, is because i was looking for something else, but just incase i didnt find anything, i would still have him around. its like you dont want to be alone. and i guarantee that if she keeps saying those things, and then coming back, and then messing with your mind, thats what she is doing.

dont let someone decide if you are going to be happy. obviously you guys have some ups and downs, but mostly downs, right?when ever you are about to leave someone, it seems that the only things that come to mind are the happy times ( which makes it so much harder to let go). go and find someone that will not make things good when ever they feel its convenient for them. be with someone that wants to make you happy.

but in general i don think that women are always confusing. i think it depends alot on their background and age. and sometimes they just dont give a crap about peoples feeling and they will never change.

hope this helped??

im out
-mindtrip02