What are the connections between the Knights of Columbus and Freemasons?

Originally posted by Relentless

Originally posted by Masonic Light

The major difference between the two is philosophical, with Freemasonry representing the autonomy and authority of the individual, and KofC representing that of the Church.

Ergo, the two are incompatible. I am really stunned at the reports of practicing Catholics who are Freemasons, especially those reporting that this is being accepted at a local level. If you read my former posts about the Church standing on this it is not a gray area. What an eye opener.

The simple fact remains, as far as the Church is concerned, if you are a Freemason you are not a Catholic in good standing, even if the local priest and bishop have no problem with it (which kind of lets you off the hook personally in the eyes of the Church). I am dying to see if this is going on where I live too.

My Dad who is KoC and former head of the local chapter back in NY is going to ask around now here in Florida. He is flabergasted at my report to him about this thread.

Only the Church thinks they are incompatible, and only for reasons of control not the spiritual well being of its members. Being a Freemason is a Sin because the Pope said it is, not because the Bible or God/Jesus said it is. In the end Christians believe that Jesus will do the final judgement, not the Papacy and even the Popes will have to stand before him and account for their actions.

I ask only this. Is it more importand to be a good Catholic or a Good Christian ?

Originally posted by Nygdan
If the history of the struggles between the RCC and Masonry don't tip them off to the papal statements, then I'd suspect that the Lodge Members would.

That's not necessarily true... when my lodge interviews prospective candidates, one of our questions is "Do you believe in a Supreme Being?" That's the only religious question asked. We don't ask for explanation or details... that's between you and your creator, and not our business.

As such, we don't really know who is a Roman Catholic, and so have no way to 'warn' them. Their spiritual health is their own responsibility.

Originally posted by RWPBR

Only the Church thinks they are incompatible, and only for reasons of control not the spiritual well being of its members. Being a Freemason is a Sin because the Pope said it is, not because the Bible or God/Jesus said it is. In the end Christians believe that Jesus will do the final judgement, not the Papacy and even the Popes will have to stand before him and account for their actions.

I ask only this. Is it more importand to be a good Catholic or a Good Christian ?

What an ignorant post from an infantile mind. Since the Craft was not around in Biblical times, how could the Bible/Jesus mention it specifically?

The Pope is speaking as the temporal steward of his Church. You are free to be Catholic or not. You are likely not, so what do you care either way? Also, the number of denominations which forbid membership into Freemasonry are legion, including Congregationalists. I would assert that the Pastors of these individual churches have at least the same authority in their own churches, but just don't admit it. The only difference is that the CC is large and worldwide, the others not.

Lastly, to answer your final question, to be a good Catholic is to be a good Christian, but to be a good "Christian" (implying Catholics are not Christian) doesn't make one a good Catholic.

Don't limit your bigotry to just one group, be the best bigot you can be and expand the scope of your ignorance and hate.

Steady on there, champ...

Your point about the Pope's role and chronology of the Bible & the Craft is well made, but... Bigotry? Hate? I don't think he demonstrated either of those.

Great thread BTW, guys. Very informative.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi

Originally posted by RWPBR

Only the Church thinks they are incompatible, and only for reasons of control not the spiritual well being of its members. Being a Freemason is a Sin because the Pope said it is, not because the Bible or God/Jesus said it is. In the end Christians believe that Jesus will do the final judgement, not the Papacy and even the Popes will have to stand before him and account for their actions.

I ask only this. Is it more importand to be a good Catholic or a Good Christian ?

What an ignorant post from an infantile mind. Since the Craft was not around in Biblical times, how could the Bible/Jesus mention it specifically?

The Pope is speaking as the temporal steward of his Church. You are free to be Catholic or not. You are likely not, so what do you care either way? Also, the number of denominations which forbid membership into Freemasonry are legion, including Congregationalists. I would assert that the Pastors of these individual churches have at least the same authority in their own churches, but just don't admit it. The only difference is that the CC is large and worldwide, the others not.

Lastly, to answer your final question, to be a good Catholic is to be a good Christian, but to be a good "Christian" (implying Catholics are not Christian) doesn't make one a good Catholic.

Don't limit your bigotry to just one group, be the best bigot you can be and expand the scope of your ignorance and hate.

One of my points is that the CC thinks it has a Monopoly on Christianity ( as do most other denominations) and that it differs in doctrine from what is written in the Bible.

And yes I know that Freemasonry probably didnt exist in biblical times but that doesnt change the fact that the Church forbids it only at the direction of the papacy with little or no biblical justification.

It is not masonry that attacks the CC, it is the CC that attacks Freemasonry. If there is bigotry and hate, you might want to point your finger in their direction.

I'd be happy to discuss current doctrine vs. Bible anytime, but this is not the right forum for it.

Pax vobiscum,

-Z

reply to post by DJMessiah


I am a 4th Degree Knight and a council officer. I am also a council membership director and I can with absolute certainty that there is no connection between The Knights of Columbus and the Freemasons. The Freemasons are, by their own admission, a secret society while the Knights of Columbus are not. We do keep all aspects of our of our degrees a secret however this is done to preserve their alure and majesty.
We are first and foremost a Catholic Family organization and dedicate our mission to charity because we believe that charity is a duty and service is an honor.

reply to post by Zhenyghi

The very actions of the Freemasons and their practice of idol worship is what makes Freemasonry wrong...The Pope did not need to make this wrong because the Freemasons did it for him. There is an absolute fact that no Freemason can (if they do they either lying or not really masons) in a masonic lodge it is forbidden to speak the name of Jesus Christ...This is fact and masonic practice. Where in the bible does it say that is wrong you may ask
The Letter of Saint Paul to the Phillipians:
"And God greatly exalted the name of Jesus above all other names. Upon hearing the Name of Jesus every head should bow and every knee should bend in Heaven, On Earth and beneth the earth...and let every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
Does it make a mason who goes through the 32nd Degree feel superior that they believe they learn the true name of God in the that Degree? Do they even know that the name is taken from multiple pagan Gods? Can anyone of them answer this question.... When Moses asked God his name so that he may tell the Isrealites who had sent him, God answered him by saying "I AM THAT AM"....What need has God of a name..A Name is something given by one to another...So who would have given God a Name.
The Freemasons include this absurd practice in the 32nd Degree soley for the purpose of inflating their own need to feel superior.
So, Freemasons practice in contrary to the Bible and forbid the name of Christ Jesus to be spoken in their Lodges.....Now ask the question again heretic...IS IT MORE IMPORTANT TO BE A FREEMASON OR A CHRISTIAN

reply to post by SirKnight William


Both Freemasonry and the Knights are societies with secrets, you've stated as much yourself.
Much as you've stated, many Masons feel that the openness of Masonry to the general public, with the rituals published, and many Mason's willingness to speak of Masonry, has caused a resulting loss of interest.
Your statement that you preserve your secrets to preserve their allure and mystery is something they'd whole heartedly agree with.

You are mistaken in the idea that 32nd degree learn the true name of God, such a thing is not stated in any degree.
True, Jesus is not mentioned in the Lodge, but neither is any name of any religious figure, and for the most part, any political feature.
Though Masonry is founded on the Old Testament, it is intended ot be open to all faiths, and attempts to keep religion out during open lodge.
Afterwords, Masons are free to discuss any matte rof religion they may.
However, it is intended that during Open Lodge Masons mention nothing that may cause discourse between them, which is something religion and politics are want to do.

If you find import in the Scottish Rite, keep in mind that it is a separate Rite system, and none of it's practices, though different from what you imagine to be, are necessarily important to Masonry in and of itself.
If you wish for a part of Masonry that puts stress on Christianity only, then study the York Rite, which in it's final degrees, requires a oath to protect the Christian faith for them to endowed.

Originally posted by SirKnight William

The very actions of the Freemasons and their practice of idol worship is what makes Freemasonry wrong..

Masons, unlike Romanists, do not worship idols.

There is an absolute fact that no Freemason can (if they do they either lying or not really masons) in a masonic lodge it is forbidden to speak the name of Jesus Christ...This is fact and masonic practice.

Your "absolute fact" is absurd. It is not "forbidden" to speak the name of Jesus Christ in a Masonic Lodge anymore than it is forbidden to do so at a Lions Club or Rotary meeting.

Does it make a mason who goes through the 32nd Degree feel superior that they believe they learn the true name of God in the that Degree?

There is no "true name of God" given in the 32°, or any other degree. Masons are from different religious backgrounds, and their religious opinions are therefore different from each other.

Do they even know that the name is taken from multiple pagan Gods?

See above.

The Freemasons include this absurd practice in the 32nd Degree

No, we don't.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Really very interesting...does anyone know of books documenting when and why the RCC decided that Masonic membership was inconsistent with RCC membership? I've seen what the RCC websites and my own parish says, but they really don't adequately address the question of WHY? Is there a reputable independent source out there?

reply to post by Ranger2064

From my understanding is that we allow members of different faiths which don't follow the trinity or the Apostolic lineage.

reply to post by Ranger2064


Here's what I found on Wiki:

The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Roman Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Roman Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine.[67] A number of Papal pronouncements have been issued against Freemasonry. The first was Pope Clement XII's In Eminenti, 28 April 1738; the most recent was Pope Leo XIII's Ab Apostolici, 15 October 1890. The 1917 Code of Canon Law explicitly declared that joining Freemasonry entailed automatic excommunication.[68] The 1917 Code of Canon Law also forbade books friendly to Freemasonry.

Freemasonry
Go down to the Christianity and Freemasonry bit.

reply to post by Ranger2064


Add to that, fear of that which they don't know...

Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated.*

Basically saying "if they're doing such great stuff, why are they hiding?" That kind of logic leads to police states...

I can give you an interesting story about the knights of colombus. My uncle, a member of a certain sicilian mob family, is a knight of columbus, and when discussing joining the fraternity with me father, mentioned how his initiation was the most embarrasing experience he had ever gone through. This, a catholic organization, apparently desires to embarrass their members.
This particular case seems to prove that some branches of the order are nothing more than fronts for crime syndicates. My uncle though is completely ignorant of mysticism and so scoffs at anyone who takes religion seriously. which would imply that their are many within masonry and KOC who are nothing more than pions, who, regardless profit from being pions.

Originally posted by dontreally
which would imply that their are many within masonry and KOC who are nothing more than pions...

I beg to differ, sir. I am not a pion nor do I have any desire to be a sub-atomic particle.

Originally posted by dontreally
My uncle though is completely ignorant of mysticism and so scoffs at anyone who takes religion seriously. which would imply that their are many within masonry and KOC who are nothing more than pions, who, regardless profit from being pions.

How can you bring the Masons into this?

Zorgon, your second post put a smile on my face! Your search from a masonic perspective, church perspective, wiki (unbiased or else marked as such) perspective, and then, lastly, in-case they were misrepresenting their actual agendas, the organization themselves. Very classy.

How else are we going to figure things out unless we balance the view. Let the truth fall where it will.